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Thread: A thread for Glock Phobia and all Glock specific propaganda.

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    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    A thread for Glock Phobia and all Glock specific propaganda.

    Help yourself,

    The closer to greatness you rise the harder they will come out to discredit you.


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    Got a G26, 27, and 33, myself. Love, love, love Glocks.

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    Ahhh the "I haven't seen it so it must not exist" defense is sure to follow shortly.

    Lets see,

    Glock has failed miserably in acknowledging any of the problems with their weapons IMHO.
    They have indeed had more than a few.
    They played the software game on recalls and instead called them "upgrades" as if that negates the thousands of failures.

    Now one can sit and argue the pointless position that Glocks are perfect, they are no where near it.

    Now if one wants to debate whether they are a good gun, that is very subjective. Overall I happen to think they are indeed a good gun, I personally do not like them, but when you consider how many there are made and how many have failed, they do pretty good in the reliability category.

    If you look at the argument overall, the biggest problem GLOCK has is the "perfection" marketing because they are not even close and other arms are much closer, and the fanboy category who like glock, promote them as the only weapon one should ever choose and since they have never seen a failure, there must never have been a failure that was not operator or ammo related, a fact that has been dis proven multiple times, and "upgrades" have been done to correct those problems.

    Several law enforcement agencies have discontinued the use of GLOCKS due to these failures being of unacceptable nature dating all the way back to 1998 I think it was, I do not have a perfect memory.

    It is also notable that within the manual, you will not find them to be +p rated.

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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    As LMTD has stated....compared to the SALES and the problem with the glock...the overall failure rate is minimum at best...

    As also stated , no other manufacture has published anything in regards to ANY problem with their handguns....Glock did so because....and I may be wrong....But.....if you sell a ton of Toyota's....eventully, there are going to be problems....I have had my 36 for years, shoot everything from reloads to lead shot....I take care of my weapon, careful of whom I buy my ammo....but yet to have blowback....maybe it is coming.....but just maybe....going out on a limb here, but maybe my Toyota will have a problem too.

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    apples or oranges.

    who gives a ****.

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    I usually carry a glock 27 most days, but at times I switch to my sig229....I love both guns and feel safe with either! I"ve had NO issues what so ever with either gun.

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    G26 when I need to be discreet; G20 when I want to be not quite so discreet. Love them both and trust them both.

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    i think of my G22 as my AKM of pistols.

    it very rarely fails, takes abuse like a champ, will run just as well clean or dirty and always goes bang when i pull the trigger. i carry it most often.

    ALL of my other handguns (save one), including revolvers, have a higher failure rate though not by much. these include Sig P229, Steyr GB and S&W revolvers.

    the ONLY pistol that HAS NEVER failed me for ANY reason is my CZ-82. thusly it is my nightstand weapon.
    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broondog View Post
    i think of my G22 as my AKM of pistols.

    it very rarely fails, takes abuse like a champ, will run just as well clean or dirty and always goes bang when i pull the trigger. i carry it most often.

    ALL of my other handguns (save one), including revolvers, have a higher failure rate though not by much. these include Sig P229, Steyr GB and S&W revolvers.

    the ONLY pistol that HAS NEVER failed me for ANY reason is my CZ-82. thusly it is my nightstand weapon.
    i've heard that CZ's are remarkable....i've contemplated a P-01....do you by chance have any thoughts on em?

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    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    Glock

    Quote Originally Posted by nrepuyan View Post
    apples or oranges.

    who gives a ****.


    IMHO

    For me it is a question of reliability. In a self defense perspective. When you need a weapon you want the one most likely to work. From the info I have gathered Glocks are less likely to jam. I have had several jams in 1911 styled guns and find there reliability to be temperamental at times, but find Glock jams to be very very rare and it's reliability to be top shelf. Now I don't doubt that if you buy a "gun snobs" $1000.00 1911 and keep it very clean then it would have less of a jam problem.

    Doc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broondog View Post
    i think of my G22 as my AKM of pistols.



    the ONLY pistol that HAS NEVER failed me for ANY reason is my CZ-82. thusly it is my nightstand weapon.
    I liked the CZ-82 so much that I bought four for 130.00 bucks each with my C&R license. It is a super accurate masterpiece. Go here for some amazing custom grips for it. http://www.marschalgrips.com/ I spent more for the custom made holster than I paid for the four pistols use it as a BUG sometimes.

    A Glock is my main carry gun everywhere but the gym, then I carry a Desert Eagle micro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post


    IMHO

    For me it is a question of reliability. In a self defense perspective. When you need a weapon you want the one most likely to work. From the info I have gathered Glocks are less likely to jam. I have had several jams in 1911 styled guns and find there reliability to be temperamental at times, but find Glock jams to be very very rare and it's reliability to be top shelf. Now I don't doubt that if you buy a "gun snobs" $1000.00 1911 and keep it very clean then it would have less of a jam problem.

    Doc
    The self defense situation is a very valid point, however, I can not imagine someone having a firearm for self defense that is not clean, that just does not make sense. Most self defense situations are going to involve less than 10 rounds (depends upon the "empty the mag theory) and 10 rounds won't leave a lot of dirt behind.

    Have you ever noticed how the debate/argument flows, the glock fan boys always talk about all the jams and problems they have had with other guns but have never had a problem with a glock?

    The fact is, all guns can and do jam, many guns are indeed very reliable and glock is by no means the only choice or even the best choice, it is simply a good choice.

    As you decided to target the 1911 and refrenced reliability and self defence, I opted to include a low end and a high end 1911 video along with a glock video to make it a little more clear for those reading along.

    Tarus 1911 900 rounds in ten minutes a few FTF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx7HY...layer_embedded
    Todd Jarret putting 1,000 rounds through a para 1911 in ten minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqtA84eBmPQ
    Glock 1000 round test, this is the second half only, a few FTF guid rod fell out of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyZxQ...eature=related

    Now notice both 1911 completed the task in tact, the glock did not. It melted and the guide rod recoil spring indeed did fall out of the gun. While I am sure it would have been the operators fault had the slide busted him in the forehead, since it did not, that is only speculation.

    When you look at a 1911, the variables are so large they simply can not be compared, from a mil-spec gun to a pistol that will shoot 1" groups at 25 yards, if you tighten any firearm up to make it very accurate, you loose reliability unless cleaned, it is simply a matter of no place for the dirt to go but in the way. Glocks are out of the box a loose weapon with a lot of space for dirt to build up as are XD's and Mil-spec 1911 pistols.

    Even more telling Doc, I have seen several photos of you carrying weapons but none of those photos have I noticed your "weapon of choice" for self defense. Not going personal there, just noting the facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    The self defense situation is a very valid point, however, I can not imagine someone having a firearm for self defense that is not clean, that just does not make sense.
    Imagine how many gun owners there are out there and then imagine how many of them don't know how to clean a firearm, myself included. Granted, I can probably figure it out, but I haven't cleaned any of the three I have. I think I'm probably in the group with the vast majority of gun owners: it's there, I occasionally shoot it, and I'm willing to use it in home defense. But, at the same time, I've taken classes to know how to clear a jam in an instant. Still, I'm just saying I think there are more people out there with dirty guns than you think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mofalloncarry View Post
    Imagine how many gun owners there are out there and then imagine how many of them don't know how to clean a firearm, myself included. Granted, I can probably figure it out, but I haven't cleaned any of the three I have. I think I'm probably in the group with the vast majority of gun owners: it's there, I occasionally shoot it, and I'm willing to use it in home defense. But, at the same time, I've taken classes to know how to clear a jam in an instant. Still, I'm just saying I think there are more people out there with dirty guns than you think.

    Uhm, you will not find me in agreement with that at all. In fact that is pretty scary if it is a reality at any level. Most of the gun owners I know clean them after every range trip or any time the gun has been fired.

    If you are serious and you have not indeed been shown how to clean your guns, you are quite welcome to spend some bench time with me and I will show you the tricks to the 1911 so you do not wind up with a goof mark on reassembly and have several kinds of firearms I have cleaned and owned over the years.

    Let me know and since we are close it won't take a huge amount of planning to pull it off.

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    well you wont find LMTD agree with yah:P. but yah i agree that a defense pistol should really always be cleaned after use. i clean all my guns after each shooting. but i guess really if its just a range gun it dosent matter as much, since its not a life or death scene if you have a jam. actually my ruger markIII, isnt fun to take apart. and sometimes i will clean it every other time instead. but yet i thats not my defence gun so i not to worried about it.

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    The price I pay

    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post

    Even more telling Doc, I have seen several photos of you carrying weapons but none of those photos have I noticed your "weapon of choice" for self defense. Not going personal there, just noting the facts.
    Through special circumstances I have have been licensed to carry concealed here in Missouri sense 1995, and the only weapon I had ever carried concealed was a Glock.

    After the California Starbucks thing made headlines and I realized I wasn't alone in feeling that a firearm is just what it is. A self defense tool. Not a villain. I started to change what I carry. I became more interested in creating awareness to others for educational and acclimation purposes. I found that a black firearm in a black holster carried on my hip is only noticed about an average of 20% of the time. 2 toned,chrome and an off colored revolver handle are noticed with much more regularity.

    So for my belief in the OC cause I started wearing flasher firearms. I lower my tactical reliability and ammo capacity for the cause at hand. It is a risk I happily take to work toward a cause. Some one has to sit in the front of the bus, even when told that I belong in the back of the bus.

    I do wear the Glock from time to time for the fond memories I have for it.

    Doc




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    oooo snap

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    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post
    I lower my tactical reliability and ammo capacity for the cause at hand. It is a risk I happily take to work toward a cause. Some one has to sit in the front of the bus, even when told that I belong in the back of the bus.

    I do wear the Glock from time to time for the fond memories I have for it.

    Doc
    I think the videos posted clearly clarify the tactical reliability issue completely. As far as ammo capacity goes, it is a common discussion and ultimately there is no answer. One well placed shot does the trick, under stress 8 or 17 may or may not make any difference. Crime and self defense have been going on since they took almost a minute to load each shot with cap and ball.

    Are you going to produce any evidence beyond your personal opinions because your Glock has not failed that they have the far superior rating over the 1911? I clearly gave you Two extremes, a fairly inexpensive tarus and a gun snob para both fairing better than the glock in a 1,000 round test, after all, the GLOCK did in fact melt.

    BTW, I do see the Glock in the photos.

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    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    Always dance with the girl that brought you

    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post

    Are you going to produce any evidence beyond your personal opinions because your Glock has not failed that they have the far superior rating over the 1911? I clearly gave you Two extremes, a fairly inexpensive Taurus and a gun snob para both fairing better than the Glock in a 1,000 round test, after all, the GLOCK did in fact melt.

    BTW, I do see the Glock in the photos.
    If you would like a concession from me here it is. "If I was to be involved in a shoot out to which I would need to fire 1000 rounds in a short amount of time. A Glock pistol would not be my 1st choice"

    Doc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    I liked the CZ-82 so much that I bought four for 130.00 bucks each with my C&R license. It is a super accurate masterpiece. Go here for some amazing custom grips for it. http://www.marschalgrips.com/ I spent more for the custom made holster than I paid for the four pistols use it as a BUG sometimes.

    A Glock is my main carry gun everywhere but the gym, then I carry a Desert Eagle micro.
    yep, i did pretty much the same thing. i picked up 3 from Classic Arms a few years back. i ended up selling two of them off at one point due to a cash flow issue. but i recently picked up another one, actually just so i could get the black leather police-style holster since i wasn't finding 'em at any shows.

    BTW, super accurate is close. i prefer insanely accurate!

    and yes, Marschal Grips are the bomb! my oldest '82 and my '52 both sport 'em.

    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrepuyan View Post
    i've heard that CZ's are remarkable....i've contemplated a P-01....do you by chance have any thoughts on em?
    no, i don't have any experience with any CZ firearms other than the '82 and the '52.

    sorry man.
    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
    Jimi Hendrix

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    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post
    If you would like a concession from me here it is. "If I was to be involved in a shoot out to which I would need to fire 1000 rounds in a short amount of time. A Glock pistol would not be my 1st choice"

    Doc
    Thats ok, I am used to seeing opinions from the Glock side of the argument, one has to assume that is all there actually is at all.

    I guess the fan boy base just can't handle folks acknowledging that it is a good firearm. They always seem to insist it is "perfect" or close to greatness and blame all failures on ammo or persons, just opinions and denial sorta like the way the company does it as well.

    GLOCK = A good quality for the price firearm, nothing more and nothing less.

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    Doc here a link to MIC Glock holsters.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mofalloncarry View Post
    Imagine how many gun owners there are out there and then imagine how many of them don't know how to clean a firearm, myself included. Granted, I can probably figure it out, but I haven't cleaned any of the three I have. I think I'm probably in the group with the vast majority of gun owners: it's there, I occasionally shoot it, and I'm willing to use it in home defense. But, at the same time, I've taken classes to know how to clear a jam in an instant. Still, I'm just saying I think there are more people out there with dirty guns than you think.
    Just throwing in my 2 cents, I always clean any of my weapons after a shoot, just makes sense to me and yes
    I own a Glock 27, really like it,never had an issue with it at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Ahhh the "I haven't seen it so it must not exist" defense is sure to follow shortly.

    Lets see,

    Glock has failed miserably in acknowledging any of the problems with their weapons IMHO.
    They have indeed had more than a few.
    They played the software game on recalls and instead called them "upgrades" as if that negates the thousands of failures.

    Now one can sit and argue the pointless position that Glocks are perfect, they are no where near it.

    Now if one wants to debate whether they are a good gun, that is very subjective. Overall I happen to think they are indeed a good gun, I personally do not like them, but when you consider how many there are made and how many have failed, they do pretty good in the reliability category.

    If you look at the argument overall, the biggest problem GLOCK has is the "perfection" marketing because they are not even close and other arms are much closer, and the fanboy category who like glock, promote them as the only weapon one should ever choose and since they have never seen a failure, there must never have been a failure that was not operator or ammo related, a fact that has been dis proven multiple times, and "upgrades" have been done to correct those problems.

    Several law enforcement agencies have discontinued the use of GLOCKS due to these failures being of unacceptable nature dating all the way back to 1998 I think it was, I do not have a perfect memory.

    It is also notable that within the manual, you will not find them to be +p rated.

    Whoa there big dog. Let me point something out for you about the LEO problems. They often have over used firearms that have not been properly maintained and worst of all, most departments do not get factory ammo for their range days. Do you know very many LEOs that changes their mags weekly, disassembles their firearm weekly, or shoots it more than once a month? Most let their stuff sit in holsters to grow dust bunnies...large families of them in some cases.

    If memory serves, they get reloaded ammunition from a contractor. A local shop had some of that very stuff and I told several people they would be better off buying factory new or their warranties are immediately voided if/when something happens. With the factory new ammo, at least Glock will take care of a customer rather quickly. On contract reloads you'd be lucky if they'll replace it the first time and most times will refuse if it happens again.

    Now I can agree with you 100% that the Glock is not perfect. I have even watched some crappy Wolf ammo from cheaperthandirt.com destroy a pistol. Would have happened even if wasn't a Glock shooting it. But for the simplicty in motion, the Glock is perfect.

    You XD and M&P shooters need to realize, your gun is just a copy of a Glock once it's in your hands. And before I get bashed, I've owned and do like both of those pistol types. Get Springfield to have a 3 inch XD45 contracted and I'll own one yet again.

    Some will often claim that the chamber is the main source of the problem and it might be, but like LMTD said, manufactured number compared to failure number they're spot-on. I've owned several different manufacturers over the years, several different materials of pistol, and several different versions of the same...somehow over the course of 10 years I returned to Glocks.

    Broondog, nice looking 52 there, those grips are slick! What's the year and how many divots on the top of the slide?
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 07-13-2010 at 02:48 PM.

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