A thread for Glock Phobia and all Glock specific propaganda.

nrepuyan said:

i've heard that CZ's are remarkable....i've contemplated a P-01....do you by chance have any thoughts on em?

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no, i don't have any experience with any CZ firearms other than the '82 and the '52.

sorry man.

sohighlyunlikely said:

If you would like a concession from me here it is. "If I was to be involved in a shoot out to which I would need to fire 1000 rounds in a short amount of time. A Glock pistol would not be my 1st choice"

Doc

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Thats ok, I am used to seeing opinions from the Glock side of the argument, one has to assume that is all there actually is at all.

I guess the fan boy base just can't handle folks acknowledging that it is a good firearm. They always seem to insist it is "perfect" or close to greatness and blame all failures on ammo or persons, just opinions and denial sorta like the way the company does it as well.

GLOCK = A good quality for the price firearm, nothing more and nothing less.

Doc here a link to MIC Glock holsters.

http://www.buddhawest.com/mic.php

mofalloncarry said:

Imagine how many gun owners there are out there and then imagine how many of them don't know how to clean a firearm, myself included. Granted, I can probably figure it out, but I haven't cleaned any of the three I have. I think I'm probably in the group with the vast majority of gun owners: it's there, I occasionally shoot it, and I'm willing to use it in home defense. But, at the same time, I've taken classes to know how to clear a jam in an instant. Still, I'm just saying I think there are more people out there with dirty guns than you think.

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Just throwing in my 2 cents, I always clean any of my weapons after a shoot, just makes sense to me and yes
I own a Glock 27, really like it,never had an issue with it at all.

LMTD said:

Ahhh the "I haven't seen it so it must not exist" defense is sure to follow shortly.

Lets see,

Glock has failed miserably in acknowledging any of the problems with their weapons IMHO.
They have indeed had more than a few.
They played the software game on recalls and instead called them "upgrades" as if that negates the thousands of failures.

Now one can sit and argue the pointless position that Glocks are perfect, they are no where near it.

Now if one wants to debate whether they are a good gun, that is very subjective. Overall I happen to think they are indeed a good gun, I personally do not like them, but when you consider how many there are made and how many have failed, they do pretty good in the reliability category.

If you look at the argument overall, the biggest problem GLOCK has is the "perfection" marketing because they are not even close and other arms are much closer, and the fanboy category who like glock, promote them as the only weapon one should ever choose and since they have never seen a failure, there must never have been a failure that was not operator or ammo related, a fact that has been dis proven multiple times, and "upgrades" have been done to correct those problems.

Several law enforcement agencies have discontinued the use of GLOCKS due to these failures being of unacceptable nature dating all the way back to 1998 I think it was, I do not have a perfect memory.

It is also notable that within the manual, you will not find them to be +p rated.

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Whoa there big dog. Let me point something out for you about the LEO problems. They often have over used firearms that have not been properly maintained and worst of all, most departments do not get factory ammo for their range days. Do you know very many LEOs that changes their mags weekly, disassembles their firearm weekly, or shoots it more than once a month? Most let their stuff sit in holsters to grow dust bunnies...large families of them in some cases.

If memory serves, they get reloaded ammunition from a contractor. A local shop had some of that very stuff and I told several people they would be better off buying factory new or their warranties are immediately voided if/when something happens. With the factory new ammo, at least Glock will take care of a customer rather quickly. On contract reloads you'd be lucky if they'll replace it the first time and most times will refuse if it happens again.

Now I can agree with you 100% that the Glock is not perfect. I have even watched some crappy Wolf ammo from cheaperthandirt.com destroy a pistol. Would have happened even if wasn't a Glock shooting it. But for the simplicty in motion, the Glock is perfect.

You XD and M&P shooters need to realize, your gun is just a copy of a Glock once it's in your hands. And before I get bashed, I've owned and do like both of those pistol types. Get Springfield to have a 3 inch XD45 contracted and I'll own one yet again.

Some will often claim that the chamber is the main source of the problem and it might be, but like LMTD said, manufactured number compared to failure number they're spot-on. I've owned several different manufacturers over the years, several different materials of pistol, and several different versions of the same...somehow over the course of 10 years I returned to Glocks.

Broondog, nice looking 52 there, those grips are slick! What's the year and how many divots on the top of the slide?

lol i thought this thread was going to be just for grins. but it sure did get heated fast. but end the end of this. no one ever going to solve this " glock fanboy vs. other guns" its like that with anything( xbox vs. playstation, coke vs. pepsi,mac vs pc.) i mean solving this debate is like LMTD geting laid, it just wont happen.

goalseter88 said:

lol i thought this thread was going to be just for grins. but it sure did get heated fast. but end the end of this. no one ever going to solve this " glock fanboy vs. other guns" its like that with anything( xbox vs. playstation, coke vs. pepsi,mac vs pc.) i mean solving this debate is like LMTD geting laid, it just wont happen.

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I've seen what you shoot and how you shoot. Obviously you have no complaints about the product you choose and they shoot quite well. Gotta love a product that does right by you. Hope you get to the next one...borrow one of my Glocks if you like. Alex scored mid-field 7/3 with a M&P.

I'm still a fan of the XD and the M&P. I think both companies got smart and figured they'd just offer up custom servicing on the triggers, especially the M&P's gritty trigger, rather than correct it from the factory. I think the thing that got me with the M&P was that I could get the 4 inch in the same dimensions as the XD 3 inch, which was quite nice.

Now if I could get someone to loan me a Steyr to shoot for a few days I'd have another one covered.

goalseter88 said:

i mean solving this debate is like LMTD geting laid, it just wont happen.

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I usually understand why some folks take an unhealthy interest in others sex lives, however considering the sources own words: "Posted by goalseter88 : this is a sex site. girls going to be more tight on it. they know your here for the sex. i never had any luck on here i just like the photos" I would go ahead and put the full text of it all, but you also have a real bad potty mouth and it is not needed to drive the point. On a side note, I did enjoy the part about how you lie to get girls, that was indeed an impressive moment.

I will have to concede to the mods that this has no use for OC and I am sorry for littering your board with it.

Broondog said:

yep, i did pretty much the same thing. i picked up 3 from Classic Arms a few years back. i ended up selling two of them off at one point due to a cash flow issue. but i recently picked up another one, actually just so i could get the black leather police-style holster since i wasn't finding 'em at any shows.

BTW, super accurate is close. i prefer insanely accurate!

and yes, Marschal Grips are the bomb! my oldest '82 and my '52 both sport 'em.

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Very nice!:dude:

Funny how no one seems neutral on Glocks. To me, they are far from the best pistols made. SIGs, FNH and H&Ks are better quality, more accurate and just as reliable; XD/XDMs, M&Ps and Taurus 24/7 OSS are just as good, if not better, in every category that matters for PD. That being said, Glock makes a very good pistol and by really good marketing bought the cop market. More credit to them. They are competitively priced, easy to learn to shoot and take apart and all that you would need in a PD weapon. Not the best by any means, but a very competitive player. As for me, I'll stick with SIG 1911s or my 69C Hi-Power as first choice for carry, open or concealed. I'd never knock Glock, that would be stupid and unsupportable, but I'm not a fan either. My plastic pistol is a 24/7 OSS--just to have one of the type. I don't see any need--ever, to buy another.

Gunslinger said:

Funny how no one seems neutral on Glocks. To me, they are far from the best pistols made. SIGs, FNH and H&Ks are better quality, more accurate and just as reliable; XD/XDMs, M&Ps and Taurus 24/7 OSS are just as good, if not better, in every category that matters for PD. That being said, Glock makes a very good pistol and by really good marketing bought the cop market. More credit to them. They are competitively priced, easy to learn to shoot and take apart and all that you would need in a PD weapon. Not the best by any means, but a very competitive player. As for me, I'll stick with SIG 1911s or my 69C Hi-Power as first choice for carry, open or concealed. I'd never knock Glock, that would be stupid and unsupportable, but I'm not a fan either. My plastic pistol is a 24/7 OSS--just to have one of the type. I don't see any need--ever, to buy another.

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Having owned metal and plastic guns, I love both but the Glock is so relatively maintenance free (comparatively) and endures abuse that my metal guns just can't, I would say that if you have the need for a weapon that has a high tolerance level for abuse/lack of maintenance, a Glock becomes a better choice. And I would agree that many higher end guns will probably last longer and possibly be more accurate exactly for the same reasons that they don't tolerate abuse as well as a Glock. So it is more a matter of how you use it rather than "what is better". If I needed a rifle that I could severely abuse yet have it keep firing, I would carry an AK. But if I wanted a decent long distance assault rifle that was lightweight, I would carry an AR. It is all about application rather than "better"

Of course they are not the "best" pistols made. But they are probably the best design for certain applications. If there was a "best" overall, we would all have the same thing
Gotta admit, though, that the quality for the price is very impressive. And I would definitely trust my life to nothing else first. Within 25 yards on a quick draw, I would not sweat any minor differences.

Of course, I never said the Glock was "pretty" For pretty I would get a Kimber...

Ugh, a Glock thread. I have more opinions on the way people form opinions on Glocks than I do Glocks themselves.

I own a Glock 26 with about 2000 rounds through it now. It was my primary carry for awhile until I got an HK 45C (and will still probably be alternated with that periodically).

My experience with a single Glock, mine - which I bought new:

It has never jammed, not once in 2000 rounds. I know people who roll their eyes at Glock fans must then translate this to me being a fanboy and saying "Glocks are perfect and never fail," when in fact I am saying that the Glock 26 I own has objectively, factually, never failed. I know that's upsetting to some people, but it is, nonetheless, a dry fact.

I cannot say this for any other gun I own (though my used, well-worn Ruger P89 comes awfully close), however the H&K may well match or better its record but it is still new so I can't tell yet (the 150 rounds I have through it have had no problems -- no "break in period" issues, etc.). Fact is, I'm happy with mine.

On the basis of my experiences with the 26, I'd buy another. That's my opinion on Glocks. And I am also dubious that one handgun is measurably more accurate than any other. People make this claim a lot. I want to see lab stats that show this is the case. Reliability may well vary, but I am dubious that accuracy does. I have never seen comprehensive statistics to prove this. I shoot, on average, about the same with my HK as my 26.

Second, I have never, ever, heard anyone say that they literally believed Glocks were perfect. I think everyone understands "Glock Perfection" is a marketing slogan cooked up by Glock. People reporting no problems with theirs, or even enthusiastically liking their pistols, is not the same thing as saying they are "perfect." I doubt anyone believes in perfection when it comes to any gun.

Third, everyone knows the story of exploding Glocks. You can find photos of them on the Internet. Of course, now we have a psychological bias because people are aware this happens, so whenever it does occur, people say, "oh, another exploding Glock" and run off to a site to upload a photograph, but I am uncertain that when a Sig explodes people think, "Oh, another exploding Sig." even though they may fail at the same rate (heresy!), but it isn't a meme. There simply are no reliable statistics. Just memes which copy over and over and over. To make a claim that Glocks fail any more or less than any other pistol is just making a bunch of crap up, unless someone has some hard stats I'm not aware of.

This is one of many "based on no facts whatsoever" opinions about guns I regularly hear from people.

Most police departments in the US appear to use Glocks. I have been actively surveying police depts around the nation by e-mail and phone on this issue and will publish results by department shortly. .40 caliber is the most common caliber reported by police, which is also the round that seems to be implicated in most accounts of kaBOOMs I've read about.

If there indeed are more Glock failures than any other numerically, and I'm not sure that is the case at all, I have to wonder what the failure rate is, say, per 100,000 guns. It may well be that Glock critics are right and that they do fail more often, but all I see is informal anecdotal evidence and a lot of people forming opinions on completely unscientific samples.

Unfortunately there is no clearinghouse to track these kinds of stats, and I somehow doubt any firearm manufacturer is going to release warranty stats to ascertain this. I would think if they really were prone to failure, we wouldn't see as many police departments using them as we do.

Oh, sure, Glocks are affordable, and it may well be Glock markets its products to law enforcement agencies and that's why they buy them, but I have a very difficult time believing if Glocks were really substandard, they'd see as much use as they do. I don't think that Glocks are "the best gun" because cops use them - and in fact I've never seen anyone make that claim (though critics translate "more police use Glocks than any other" to "Glocks are the best gun because police use them" which is twisting things around to suit their position, even though I've never seen a Glock fan say that.)

There are other guns in this price range/tier which could be substituted, and this just hasn't happened. Fact of the matter, for example, is that Glock's nearest competitor on Internet gun forums (price range, market) as far as I can tell is the Springfield XD series and thus far none of the police departments I've surveyed issue them, although they do appear on a few "approved" lists for departments which give officers latitude on what they can buy (Fort Collins, CO; Cleveland, OH; and Des Moines, IA.)

I agree that there are a lot of Glock fans; I'm one. I just don't see the degree of fanboyism, where all shortcomings of Glocks are dismissed or denied, that Glock critics see.

But then again, as an HK owner I'm supposed to look down my nose at everyone now and be a fanboy of that. I'm saving up for a Sig now so I have the whole range of snobbery covered.

That's another issue: While I really like my HK and think it looks cooler than my Glock does, I can't ascertain anything by holding it and shooting it that suggests it is objectively better in terms of durability, finish, or otherwise, than my Glock. There were no "burrs" on my Glock when I bought it and there are none on my HK. Whether or not the HK is worth the extra several hundred dollars over an XD, M&P, or Glock - that you get "that much more gun," is something that I remain to be convinced of. We'll see a few years down the road.

Propaganda flies from all sides on any pistol - from supporters and detractors. And gun magazines are useless when trying to get objective reviews. Gun writers like any gun that they can publish a review on, thereby getting paid to write about guns. Gun magazines are pornography.

I would like to see something like Consumer Reports for guns, where they put them through the same objective paces (which of course will be dismissed as "unfair" by fanboys of whatever is being tested and comes up short - this happens with computer benchmarks as well.)

If anyone knows of such a thing, please let me know.

Broondog said:

yep, i did pretty much the same thing. i picked up 3 from Classic Arms a few years back. i ended up selling two of them off at one point due to a cash flow issue. but i recently picked up another one, actually just so i could get the black leather police-style holster since i wasn't finding 'em at any shows.

BTW, super accurate is close. i prefer insanely accurate!

and yes, Marschal Grips are the bomb! my oldest '82 and my '52 both sport 'em.

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Mas49.56 said:

Very nice!:dude:

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Glad I'm not the only one that appreciates these. Had a nasty run-in with a 52 equipped with a suppressor on my last deployment. Even ran into the extremely rare rifle that shoots the 7.62x25 steel-core bullet, but stuffed into a rifle cartridge with a lot of powder; broke my heart that we had orders to destroy it in place because it's like a mythical creature...you just don't believe it until you see it with your own eyes or get to handle it.

Been looking for another 52-54 single divot CZ-52 with strong rollers and no corrosion. (early imports are the way to go)

heresyourdipstickjimmy said:

I've seen what you shoot and how you shoot. Obviously you have no complaints about the product you choose and they shoot quite well. Gotta love a product that does right by you. Hope you get to the next one...borrow one of my Glocks if you like. Alex scored mid-field 7/3 with a M&P.

I'm still a fan of the XD and the M&P. I think both companies got smart and figured they'd just offer up custom servicing on the triggers, especially the M&P's gritty trigger, rather than correct it from the factory. I think the thing that got me with the M&P was that I could get the 4 inch in the same dimensions as the XD 3 inch, which was quite nice.

Now if I could get someone to loan me a Steyr to shoot for a few days I'd have another one covered.

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yah i like my xd. i liked your glock also. it was a bit different then the rest i seen. i guess i just never seen your model that you were shooting that day. but that ones more meant for target then carry. most people i know that have glocks have a 4 in or less barrel for concealment. but if i was wanting a gun meant for competition ,yet would still qualify for IDPA without being a custom catergory, then i might have to look into that glock model.

i used to have a kahr k9...wish i wouldn't have sold it...got my glock cause it was the best bang for my buck with the LE discount. it serves it's purpose...i liked it allot better when i put a houge (sp?) grip on it.

heresyourdipstickjimmy said:

Been looking for another 52-54 single divot CZ-52 with strong rollers and no corrosion. (early imports are the way to go)

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thanks for the compliments guys!

mine is a '54 (the last year they were made BTW) and has just a single divot or punch mark. one day someone, somewhere will give a definitive answer as to what the mark means. the FP has been upgraded and i do have new rollers should they ever be needed but my piece is in excellent shape.

pulling it out of the safe tonite has made me realize that it's been some time since i have fired it. i think i'm gonna have to remedy that situation soon.

FYI, if anyone here decides to get any grips from Marschal, be prepared to wait. they do awesome work but my personal wait was close to 2 months and their communication skills leave a lot to be desired. but in the end it was all worth it.

goalseter88 said:

yah i like my xd. i liked your glock also. it was a bit different then the rest i seen. i guess i just never seen your model that you were shooting that day. but that ones more meant for target then carry. most people i know that have glocks have a 4 in or less barrel for concealment. but if i was wanting a gun meant for competition ,yet would still qualify for IDPA without being a custom catergory, then i might have to look into that glock model.

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You're welcome to give it a go sometime, I should have my back-up 34 in hand by the middle of next week. Of course, you know I've always got an extra pistol available should the need arise...and plenty of mags to boot.

Broondog said:

thanks for the compliments guys!

mine is a '54 (the last year they were made BTW) and has just a single divot or punch mark. one day someone, somewhere will give a definitive answer as to what the mark means. the FP has been upgraded and i do have new rollers should they ever be needed but my piece is in excellent shape.

pulling it out of the safe tonite has made me realize that it's been some time since i have fired it. i think i'm gonna have to remedy that situation soon.

FYI, if anyone here decides to get any grips from Marschal, be prepared to wait. they do awesome work but my personal wait was close to 2 months and their communication skills leave a lot to be desired. but in the end it was all worth it.

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Yep, Marschal has been flooded with requests and simply cannot keep up with timely communication.

The divots have been rumored to mean several different things ranging from how many times it's been rearsenaled to meet accuracy, how many times it's been tested for accuracy, how many times it's been reworked to meet specs, and a few other things. I've found through personal experience that the single divot models are the more accurate and more reliable products, however I did have a single divot 52 (1953 stamp) that needed the slide mated due to lateral wobble on the rails. Simply loved mine and the one I regretted parting with I'll never see again...guy that bought it let his dad shoot it and dad refuses (gun in hand sometimes) to give it up.

I think I enjoyed how curious folks got while shooting it, but were too chicken to pull the trigger themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uo2zjjK4Co&NR=1

Them glocks are loose.

YuppieDog said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uo2zjjK4Co&NR=1

Them glocks are loose.

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It is VERY hard to believe this is real. Ever FEEL the tension on one of those things??? Something fishy here...

unlikely

YuppieDog said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uo2zjjK4Co&NR=1

Them Glocks are loose.

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I'll bring a Glock the next time we go shooting together and I'll bet you a steak dinner you can't do that with mine. I am thinking this guy may have done something with the spring.

Doc