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Thread: People like a lot of these people scare me

  1. #1
    Regular Member J_Douglass's Avatar
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    People like a lot of these people scare me


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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    It's quite obvious that most of the posts on that topic are made by either clueless goobs or armchair ninjas who know nothing about ballistics OR criminal trends...

    The civilian-legal rounds fired by a 5.7 pistol won't penetrate body armor. End of discussion.

    When fired by a rifle, they sometimes will, depending on the armor and the location of the hit. And as a general rule, BGs don't use rifles. If rifles that will defeat Level II body armor should all be banned, then we need to ban Ruger 10/22s and ALL rifles more powerful than that (30-30, 30-06, .308, etc)...

    Criminals generally don't get their handguns from dealers, and there are so few FN 5.7s in circulation that there is almost no second-hand market. So the chances of a criminal getting one is essentially non-existent.

    And the rounds for these firearms are harder to find than high-quality .380 auto defense rounds, so even if a BG could get his hands on one of these pistols, he'd have a heck of a time using it without ammo....

    ATS is good for a laugh. But as a source of factual info, or meaningful commentary, it's about as useful as snowshoes in Miami...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-10-2010 at 05:21 PM.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Exclamation Physics fail.

    The vast majority of soft body armor is easily defeated by almost any civilian legal rifle cartridge.

    Please note the 5.7 pistol was designed as a companion to the p90, which has a longer barrel. It needs that longer barrel for its full potential.


    .45ACP 230g +p ammo is way more lethal to someone wearing soft body armor than the civilian 5.7 ammo. Although it won't penetrate, it will shatter your sternum, possibly resulting in bone cutting the lungs, heart, pericardium, and blood vessels.

    The big myth is that you need to penetrate soft armor in order to kill your target. You only need to transfer energy through it.

    Yes there are exceptions and there is a soft armor made from woven spider silk that can distribute energy enough to protect you from a .45acp. That is what we call the .01%
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 07-11-2010 at 12:17 AM. Reason: grammar fail

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    So I guess next they want to ban swords and kitchen knives because they can penetrate soft armor. Do they even know people were killing each other with sticks and rocks long before we even had language, much less gunpowder?

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    Regular Member J_Douglass's Avatar
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    All above posts are my point exactly. People talking out of their ass about things they know nothing about. According to one guy I should be in jail serving a 10 year sentence because i own/posses one.

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    Regular Member Archangel's Avatar
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    Y'all realize that thread is from 2005 right?

    Last post was to it was 2008....

    Interesting but jus sayin....

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRAMARINE View Post
    So I guess next they want to ban swords and kitchen knives because they can penetrate soft armor. Do they even know people were killing each other with sticks and rocks long before we even had language, much less gunpowder?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4581871.stm

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    **** me.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post

    Maybe if the UK didn't have near 30% unemployment, and didn't actively recruit illegal immigrants (many of whom are actually international drug dealers) through a wide-open border, little if any background screening, and and "anyone qualifies" entitlement system for education, health care, and the dole, and a banking system that admittedly does BILLIONS of dollars of drug laundering business knowlingly, they wouldn't have such a violence problem with knives...

    Hey, those conditions sound sort of familiar...

    Come to think of it, I think I lost a few of my Henkels, Wusthov, Calphalon, and Kershaw Shun kitchen knives last weekend in a boating accident when we were at the OBX...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Words escape me.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRAMARINE View Post
    Words escape me.
    I love the English, without them, I wouldn't have anything to laugh at.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1762835.ece

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    Are those articles not the perfect example of why Firearm regulations are stupid. It clearly shows that even if there are NO firearms available violence still takes place.. Where does it end?

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    Campaign Veteran GlockMeisterG21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The civilian-legal rounds fired by a 5.7 pistol won't penetrate body armor. End of discussion.
    Not true. I'll see if we still have the vest panel I shot with FN 5.7x28mm round and take a pic of it. I taped 4 panels together and when I shot them the first was penetrated and the second stopped the round.


    edit to add: I don't know what level the kevlar panel was as the labels were removed from the ones we have.
    Last edited by GlockMeisterG21; 07-12-2010 at 11:09 PM.

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    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockMeisterG21 View Post
    Not true. I'll see if we still have the vest panel I shot with FN 5.7x28mm round and take a pic of it. I taped 4 panels together and when I shot them the first was penetrated and the second stopped the round.


    edit to add: I don't know what level the kevlar panel was as the labels were removed from the ones we have.
    +1 There is civilian commercial ammo out now loaded to the full potential of the round. No the 5.7 isn't the Nuke tipped round the anti's make it out to be, but it has been shown to be effective (deer, hog, human). At 2,100-2,200 fps out of the FN pistol, it seems to be about the same as an AR15 rifle 5.56 round at 275-300 yards, not magical, but I don't want it hitting me!
    (The rounds are loaded down a bit, because they are not just for the USG pistol, they are for P90's and PS90's too)
    Isn't the machine gun ban unconstitutional now since McDonald? I want to trade my PS90 for a P90.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I especially like this quote from the article:

    "French laws in the 17th century decreed that the tips of table and street knives be ground smooth.

    A century later, forks and blunt-ended table knives were introduced in the UK in an effort to reduce injuries during arguments in public eating houses.

    The researchers say legislation to ban the sale of long pointed knives would be a key step in the fight against violent crime. "

    Yeah, that's the ticket. Let's return to some sort of pseudo-feudal society. THAT will fix all their social ills...

    The BMA is openly advocating a return to a legal system akin to serfdom, and people say I'm a "tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorist"?

    It's not a conspiracy when they publish their plans in the mainstream media, folks...

    WTF?

    You know, there are still SOME of us who remember our history. I seem to remember a little tiff that arose among the "common people" in France in the late 1780's in response to this sort of oppressive micromanaging, utter disdain for civil rights, and blatant distrust of the People and institutionalized treatment of ALL commoners as de-facto criminals by the "ruling elite"...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-13-2010 at 12:58 AM.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockMeisterG21 View Post
    Not true. I'll see if we still have the vest panel I shot with FN 5.7x28mm round and take a pic of it. I taped 4 panels together and when I shot them the first was penetrated and the second stopped the round.


    edit to add: I don't know what level the kevlar panel was as the labels were removed from the ones we have.
    did you place the kevlar on a clay or ballistic dummy? free-hanging and hard-backed kevlar doesn't do its job.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    did you place the kevlar on a clay or ballistic dummy? free-hanging and hard-backed kevlar doesn't do its job.
    More vids 5.7 pistol vs level II with recent civilian ammo.
    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?xl_blz_...&v=elKgG2W6_N0

    Better ammo than this is out now.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I don't particularly care if it can penetrate body armor or not.

    The ability to penetrate body armor does not mean there is a desire to kill cops. This is the false implication that is skipped over and pretended to be factual.

    Lots of stuff will penetrate so-called 'body armor.' Noting ow tragically weak the 5.7 round is, is where this begins.

    These ******** need a lesson in physics. I own firearms that will penetrate Trauma Plate. Just because that fact exists, does not mean i have any intent to do so.

    I have a penis, too. That doesn't make me a rapist, nor does it make the idea of rape appealing to me. It certainly cannot be construed that my purpose and reason for having a penis is to commit rape.

    I wear pants. Does this mean I might unzip and show you my penis at any moment?

    Do you see a pattern?

    Fundamentally, this is the same argument in different clothes, as every anti-gun argument. It comes down to nothing but slanderous presumption:

    "Those people are different from me, so I will call them dangerous and take away their tools." - Every Liberal Who Ever Lived.

    And then they call themselves tolerant, and celebrating diversity, lovers of freedom, champions of peoples' rights, etc...

  19. #19
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabbitone View Post
    Link not work for anyone else?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKgG2W6_N0

    That's the video. ^


    I'm not an expert on vests, but those look ridiculously weak.

  20. #20
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Looks like a Level II-A

    That vest appears to be a level II-A vest. It is rated to stop .355-.357 JSP bullets up to 1,250fps.
    It also has very poor blunt trauma protection. (means non-penetrating hits are still life-threatening from minor rounds)

    There are many pistol rounds that could penetrate this:

    9mm +p+
    .357 sig
    10mm
    some .45acp
    30cal Tokarev

    In fairness this vest is designed for maximum concealment, and is less effective than a level II vest.

    ixtow is right about this not really being relevant. More than just intent, another logic failure is non-penetrating rounds can still be deadly with many vests. So now the argument is invalid on multiple fronts.

    Fortunately for our sheepdogs in blue, thugs like 9mm/.380acp/.38spl
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 07-14-2010 at 12:50 AM.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I don't particularly care if it can penetrate body armor or not.
    Me, neither. A stop is a stop, and if two to the chest doesn't stop 'em, it just gives me a good excuse to send the third one to the head.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    The vast majority of soft body armor is easily defeated by almost any civilian legal rifle cartridge.

    Please note the 5.7 pistol was designed as a companion to the PS90, which has a longer barrel. It needs that longer barrel for its full potential.


    .45ACP 230g +p ammo is way more lethal to someone wearing soft body armor than the civilian 5.7 ammo. Although it won't penetrate, it will shatter your sternum, possibly resulting in bone cutting the lungs, heart, pericardium, and blood vessels.

    The big myth is that you need to penetrate soft armor in order to kill your target. You only need to transfer energy through it.

    Yes there are exceptions and there is a soft armor made from woven spider silk that can distribute energy enough to protect you from a .45acp. That is what we call the .01%
    Fixed. The P90 is the full auto, short barrel. The PS90 is semi auto only and has to have the barrel extension to meet federal regulation (otherwise you have to get the SBR tax stamp). As for the ammo, good luck finding SS190AP. Even if you do, it is prohibitively expensive. Even the SS192 ammo is pretty much prohibitively expensive. SS195 is hard to find. SS197 is what most people by, but at ~750 for a case of 2,000, that's still a lot of dough. I know SS198 just came out, but I haven't done any research on it. Sure these rounds are fast and will penetrate soft/no armor, but against Level 3/4 armor, it won't penetrate. Level 4 is made to stand up against 7.62 x 54 ammo!

    http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Ar...n.shtml#Levels
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The civilian-legal rounds fired by a 5.7 pistol won't penetrate body armor. End of discussion.
    You are wrong.

  24. #24
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Comprehension fail

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Fixed. The P90 is the full auto, short barrel. The PS90 is semi auto only and has to have the barrel extension to meet federal regulation (otherwise you have to get the SBR tax stamp). As for the ammo, good luck finding SS190AP. Even if you do, it is prohibitively expensive. Even the SS192 ammo is pretty much prohibitively expensive. SS195 is hard to find. SS197 is what most people by, but at ~750 for a case of 2,000, that's still a lot of dough. I know SS198 just came out, but I haven't done any research on it. Sure these rounds are fast and will penetrate soft/no armor, but against Level 3/4 armor, it won't penetrate. Level 4 is made to stand up against 7.62 x 54 ammo!

    http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Ar...n.shtml#Levels
    p90 still has longer barrel than Five-seveN pistol. PS90 was developed well after the p90.

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