-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
People like a lot of these people scare me
- Thread starter J_Douglass
- Start date
Dreamer
Regular Member
It's quite obvious that most of the posts on that topic are made by either clueless goobs or armchair ninjas who know nothing about ballistics OR criminal trends...
The civilian-legal rounds fired by a 5.7 pistol won't penetrate body armor. End of discussion.
When fired by a rifle, they sometimes will, depending on the armor and the location of the hit. And as a general rule, BGs don't use rifles. If rifles that will defeat Level II body armor should all be banned, then we need to ban Ruger 10/22s and ALL rifles more powerful than that (30-30, 30-06, .308, etc)...
Criminals generally don't get their handguns from dealers, and there are so few FN 5.7s in circulation that there is almost no second-hand market. So the chances of a criminal getting one is essentially non-existent.
And the rounds for these firearms are harder to find than high-quality .380 auto defense rounds, so even if a BG could get his hands on one of these pistols, he'd have a heck of a time using it without ammo....
ATS is good for a laugh. But as a source of factual info, or meaningful commentary, it's about as useful as snowshoes in Miami...
The civilian-legal rounds fired by a 5.7 pistol won't penetrate body armor. End of discussion.
When fired by a rifle, they sometimes will, depending on the armor and the location of the hit. And as a general rule, BGs don't use rifles. If rifles that will defeat Level II body armor should all be banned, then we need to ban Ruger 10/22s and ALL rifles more powerful than that (30-30, 30-06, .308, etc)...
Criminals generally don't get their handguns from dealers, and there are so few FN 5.7s in circulation that there is almost no second-hand market. So the chances of a criminal getting one is essentially non-existent.
And the rounds for these firearms are harder to find than high-quality .380 auto defense rounds, so even if a BG could get his hands on one of these pistols, he'd have a heck of a time using it without ammo....
ATS is good for a laugh. But as a source of factual info, or meaningful commentary, it's about as useful as snowshoes in Miami...
Last edited:
simmonsjoe
Regular Member
Physics fail.
The vast majority of soft body armor is easily defeated by almost any civilian legal rifle cartridge.
Please note the 5.7 pistol was designed as a companion to the p90, which has a longer barrel. It needs that longer barrel for its full potential.
.45ACP 230g +p ammo is way more lethal to someone wearing soft body armor than the civilian 5.7 ammo. Although it won't penetrate, it will shatter your sternum, possibly resulting in bone cutting the lungs, heart, pericardium, and blood vessels.
The big myth is that you need to penetrate soft armor in order to kill your target. You only need to transfer energy through it.
Yes there are exceptions and there is a soft armor made from woven spider silk that can distribute energy enough to protect you from a .45acp. That is what we call the .01%
The vast majority of soft body armor is easily defeated by almost any civilian legal rifle cartridge.
Please note the 5.7 pistol was designed as a companion to the p90, which has a longer barrel. It needs that longer barrel for its full potential.
.45ACP 230g +p ammo is way more lethal to someone wearing soft body armor than the civilian 5.7 ammo. Although it won't penetrate, it will shatter your sternum, possibly resulting in bone cutting the lungs, heart, pericardium, and blood vessels.
The big myth is that you need to penetrate soft armor in order to kill your target. You only need to transfer energy through it.
Yes there are exceptions and there is a soft armor made from woven spider silk that can distribute energy enough to protect you from a .45acp. That is what we call the .01%
Last edited:
balackolama
Regular Member
what about the 460 or 500 s&w will that penetrate body armor
NRAMARINE
Regular Member
So I guess next they want to ban swords and kitchen knives because they can penetrate soft armor. Do they even know people were killing each other with sticks and rocks long before we even had language, much less gunpowder?
J_Douglass
Regular Member
All above posts are my point exactly. People talking out of their ass about things they know nothing about. According to one guy I should be in jail serving a 10 year sentence because i own/posses one.
Archangel
Regular Member
Y'all realize that thread is from 2005 right?
Last post was to it was 2008....
Interesting but jus sayin....
Last post was to it was 2008....
Interesting but jus sayin....
Jack House
Regular Member
simmonsjoe
Regular Member
**** me.
Dreamer
Regular Member
Maybe if the UK didn't have near 30% unemployment, and didn't actively recruit illegal immigrants (many of whom are actually international drug dealers) through a wide-open border, little if any background screening, and and "anyone qualifies" entitlement system for education, health care, and the dole, and a banking system that admittedly does BILLIONS of dollars of drug laundering business knowlingly, they wouldn't have such a violence problem with knives...
Hey, those conditions sound sort of familiar...
Come to think of it, I think I lost a few of my Henkels, Wusthov, Calphalon, and Kershaw Shun kitchen knives last weekend in a boating accident when we were at the OBX...
NRAMARINE
Regular Member
Words escape me.
Jack House
Regular Member
I love the English, without them, I wouldn't have anything to laugh at.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/justice/article1762835.ece
kootsoup
Regular Member
Are those articles not the perfect example of why Firearm regulations are stupid. It clearly shows that even if there are NO firearms available violence still takes place.. Where does it end?
GlockMeisterG21
Campaign Veteran
Not true. I'll see if we still have the vest panel I shot with FN 5.7x28mm round and take a pic of it. I taped 4 panels together and when I shot them the first was penetrated and the second stopped the round.
edit to add: I don't know what level the kevlar panel was as the labels were removed from the ones we have.
Last edited:
Mas49.56
Regular Member
+1 There is civilian commercial ammo out now loaded to the full potential of the round. No the 5.7 isn't the Nuke tipped round the anti's make it out to be, but it has been shown to be effective (deer, hog, human). At 2,100-2,200 fps out of the FN pistol, it seems to be about the same as an AR15 rifle 5.56 round at 275-300 yards, not magical, but I don't want it hitting me!
(The rounds are loaded down a bit, because they are not just for the USG pistol, they are for P90's and PS90's too)
Isn't the machine gun ban unconstitutional now since McDonald? I want to trade my PS90 for a P90.
Dreamer
Regular Member
I especially like this quote from the article:
Yeah, that's the ticket. Let's return to some sort of pseudo-feudal society. THAT will fix all their social ills...
The BMA is openly advocating a return to a legal system akin to serfdom, and people say I'm a "tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorist"?
It's not a conspiracy when they publish their plans in the mainstream media, folks...
WTF?
You know, there are still SOME of us who remember our history. I seem to remember a little tiff that arose among the "common people" in France in the late 1780's in response to this sort of oppressive micromanaging, utter disdain for civil rights, and blatant distrust of the People and institutionalized treatment of ALL commoners as de-facto criminals by the "ruling elite"...
Yeah, that's the ticket. Let's return to some sort of pseudo-feudal society. THAT will fix all their social ills...
The BMA is openly advocating a return to a legal system akin to serfdom, and people say I'm a "tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorist"?
It's not a conspiracy when they publish their plans in the mainstream media, folks...
WTF?
You know, there are still SOME of us who remember our history. I seem to remember a little tiff that arose among the "common people" in France in the late 1780's in response to this sort of oppressive micromanaging, utter disdain for civil rights, and blatant distrust of the People and institutionalized treatment of ALL commoners as de-facto criminals by the "ruling elite"...
Last edited:
simmonsjoe
Regular Member
did you place the kevlar on a clay or ballistic dummy? free-hanging and hard-backed kevlar doesn't do its job.
Mas49.56
Regular Member
More vids 5.7 pistol vs level II with recent civilian ammo.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?xl_blz_on=xl_blz_on&client=mv-google&v=elKgG2W6_N0
Better ammo than this is out now.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
I don't particularly care if it can penetrate body armor or not.
The ability to penetrate body armor does not mean there is a desire to kill cops. This is the false implication that is skipped over and pretended to be factual.
Lots of stuff will penetrate so-called 'body armor.' Noting ow tragically weak the 5.7 round is, is where this begins.
These assholes need a lesson in physics. I own firearms that will penetrate Trauma Plate. Just because that fact exists, does not mean i have any intent to do so.
I have a penis, too. That doesn't make me a rapist, nor does it make the idea of rape appealing to me. It certainly cannot be construed that my purpose and reason for having a penis is to commit rape.
I wear pants. Does this mean I might unzip and show you my penis at any moment?
Do you see a pattern?
Fundamentally, this is the same argument in different clothes, as every anti-gun argument. It comes down to nothing but slanderous presumption:
"Those people are different from me, so I will call them dangerous and take away their tools." - Every Liberal Who Ever Lived.
And then they call themselves tolerant, and celebrating diversity, lovers of freedom, champions of peoples' rights, etc...
The ability to penetrate body armor does not mean there is a desire to kill cops. This is the false implication that is skipped over and pretended to be factual.
Lots of stuff will penetrate so-called 'body armor.' Noting ow tragically weak the 5.7 round is, is where this begins.
These assholes need a lesson in physics. I own firearms that will penetrate Trauma Plate. Just because that fact exists, does not mean i have any intent to do so.
I have a penis, too. That doesn't make me a rapist, nor does it make the idea of rape appealing to me. It certainly cannot be construed that my purpose and reason for having a penis is to commit rape.
I wear pants. Does this mean I might unzip and show you my penis at any moment?
Do you see a pattern?
Fundamentally, this is the same argument in different clothes, as every anti-gun argument. It comes down to nothing but slanderous presumption:
"Those people are different from me, so I will call them dangerous and take away their tools." - Every Liberal Who Ever Lived.
And then they call themselves tolerant, and celebrating diversity, lovers of freedom, champions of peoples' rights, etc...
Jack House
Regular Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKgG2W6_N0
That's the video. ^
I'm not an expert on vests, but those look ridiculously weak.