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Thread: The Catholic Virginian Weighs in on "New Gun Law" (7/12/2010)

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    The Catholic Virginian Weighs in on "New Gun Law" (7/12/2010)

    I typically get my copy via mail the Saturday before the pub date (7/12/2010), which is when this will be available on-line. Normally, I would wait until then to respond, but this is just too much!

    Apparently, Steve Neill thinks that Grapeshot should carry around an exact inventory of his firearms for public inspection at all times.

    Neill also thinks that VA Law "...already allows people with proper permits to carry a gun in the open." Could he be limiting his view to hunters?

    And the cake! How brazen are these VCDL people, anyway?

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    Wow; scattered and uniformed

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Two words

    Luby's Cafeteria.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Classic ignorant anti-gun points, beginning to end. He asks for answers, you should write a letter to the editor refuting them one and all. You could do it in your sleep.

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Avoiding bars and choosing to instead patronize restaurants is very easy in Virginia - there are NO bars, the are all restaurants.

    I should have said (regarding number of guns) that I owned a "few" - it is nobody's business but my own. I do know exactly the number and the full nomenclature of each - the serial numbers I would have to look up and I wasn't bragging (never do that), I was responding to a fishing question - won't do that again.

    Cause alarm in a public area like parks, outdoor events, dinners, walking down the street minding my own business? Nope doesn't happen. Didn't today at the Hanover Tomato Festival at Pole Green Park either.

    The very best way to make children safe around guns is to educate them, teach them - not hide safe handling practices from them - even our state legislature agrees with that. Uneducated people (ignorant of the facts) of any age are dangerous.

    Mr Neill wants a "good answer" answer to his question. Well Mr. Neill it is because bad things do happen to good people in the most unlikely places and at the most inopportune times. I trust you do read the papers and watch the news. Nobody, not the police or you, can select a locale that is guaranteed safe - not even your home.

    Perhaps there should be training and testing required before being allowed to write an editorial - oh wait, that would be in violation of one of the original 10 Amendments........maybe we can see just a little reasonable common sense control.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Mr Neill wants a "good answer" answer to his question. Well Mr. Neill it is because bad things do happen to good people in the most unlikely places and at the most inopportune times.
    It's not just a little bit ironic that the Op-Ed writer of a Catholic newsletter doesn't get this.....

    TFred

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    It's not just a little bit ironic that the Op-Ed writer of a Catholic newsletter doesn't get this.....

    TFred
    "A bit ironic"???

    How about the definition of IRONY:
    Op-Ed Author of Catholic Newsletter isn't in touch with the idea of "bad things happen to good people" and "If bad things happen to you, then you deserve it..."
    Its called "Catholic Guilt" and a well-known tenet of their belief system.

    Apologies in advance to any devout Catholics that may take offense to my entry...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I couldn't read more than a few sentences.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    "A bit ironic"???

    How about the definition of IRONY:
    Op-Ed Author of Catholic Newsletter isn't in touch with the idea of "bad things happen to good people" and "If bad things happen to you, then you deserve it..."
    Its called "Catholic Guilt" and a well-known tenet of their belief system.

    Apologies in advance to any devout Catholics that may take offense to my entry...
    Well... I was going more for the idea that the Crucifixion of Jesus was the ultimate "bad thing happening to a good person..." No possible insults to apologize for with that idea.

    TFred

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    Some Catholic Columnists are Misinformed

    As a Catholic I sometimes have to grit my teeth when I read some of the nonesense that is written in Catholic Newsletters.

    At times the writers appear to be naively misinformed and tend to spout off the same thing that the main stream media puts out. Further, the United States Council of Catholic Bishops do the same thing. Their position on "Assault Weapons" and handgun ownership seems to be written, word for word, by the Brady Group.

    It appears that they are doing the same thing on the Immigration Issue.

    One does not have to "subscribe" to their points of view on these issues in order to be a "good" Catholic.

    The Pastor at my Church is VERY pro-gun and the Pastor at another Church even carries a gun.

    Here are some Catholic web sites that tend to be very conservative. The first one had an article praising the McDonald decision:

    http://www.sanctepater.com/

    http://www.newadvent.org/

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    Pro-gun Catholic

    The previous parish priest of my church got his concealed hand gun permit. I gave him the training. My current pastor owns a few long guns.

    I thoroughly resent Steve Neill using his position as editor of the Catholic Virginian to spout his bigotry and ignorance from that organ, and I intend to tell him so. I suspect he's gotten cozy with Lori Haas, who was offered some guest columnist space in the past

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverdance View Post
    The previous parish priest of my church got his concealed hand gun permit. I gave him the training. My current pastor owns a few long guns.

    I thoroughly resent Steve Neill using his position as editor of the Catholic Virginian to spout his bigotry and ignorance from that organ, and I intend to tell him so. I suspect he's gotten cozy with Lori Haas, who was offered some guest columnist space in the past
    When you do, ask him how he feels about using the dual protections offered his publication by the 1st Amendment (free exercise of religion and freedom of the press) to chastise those who would exercise their rights under the 2nd Amendment, and especially the right of self defense, an obligation required of Catholics.

    The demographics of this publication are impressive: 73,000 circulation, bi-weekly to every household in the Diocese of Richmond, which covers the entire southern half of Virginia.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverdance View Post
    The previous parish priest of my church got his concealed hand gun permit. I gave him the training. My current pastor owns a few long guns.

    I thoroughly resent Steve Neill using his position as editor of the Catholic Virginian to spout his bigotry and ignorance from that organ, and I intend to tell him so. I suspect he's gotten cozy with Lori Haas, who was offered some guest columnist space in the past
    My response:
    Mr. Neill:

    You pose the question "How many of us would feel comfortable dining in a restaurant knowing that another patron was carrying a loaded pistol on their person?" to discuss concealed carry of a firearm into a restaurant that serves alcohol. If the firearm is concealed, how would anyone know if a patron is carrying it?

    As Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) holder, I also am concerned about who else is patronizing any establishment in which I am a customer. I carry regularly, and shop at the grocery store, Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Best Buy, gas stations, my bank (into the lobby), occasionally attend city council meetings and dine at various restaurants (e.g. IHOP, Red Lobster, Silver Diner, Hondo's), some of which serve alcoholic beverages. Prior to July 1st, I would open carry my firearm when patronizing such restaurants. I have never encountered a negative reaction from anyone while open carrying at any establishment. A few individuals who have noticed my firearm asked me what kind of gun it is. A few thought that a permit was necessary for open carry (it isn't, none exists), and I provided them with a VCDL Information Card which addresses these issues. I chose to obtain a CHP for the personal convenience of being able to accommodate changes in the weather and not be in violation of the law because I put on my coat.

    I choose to carry a firearm for personal protection and self defense, and hopefully will never have to discharge it for that purpose. I also practice with it regularly. No one can predict when or if any life threatening situation may develop, or whether one may be able to escape from it if it does. The only recourse may be to confront one's attacker in order to stop the threat. To do so is in keeping with Church Doctrine.

    I have discussed the topic of going about armed with several law enforcement officers, and not one has suggested that I would be safer without my gun, or that I should call 911 first. In fact, one even told me that carrying a revolver wasn't such a good idea because "you only have six shots". Another said that if you need to draw your gun to defend yourself, don't hesitate to shoot; it could be a fatal mistake.

    Shooting in any situation, whether on the range or in a crowded store is a serious matter. The shooter is responsible for everything his or her shot does until the bullet comes to rest, an awesome responsibility. Unfortunately, those who would do us harm don't see it that way.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    You were much kinder than I would have been. Not that I would have been mean... I think my letter would have started with something like:

    In our culture of diverse political thinking, it is rare to run across an opinion piece that is absolutely wrong on every single point that was made. You have somehow managed to do just that.

    I seriously could not find one credible opinion point to be made in the entire article. The author did manage to state a few facts correctly.

    The article is on-line now, by the way.

    TFred

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    You were much kinder than I would have been. Not that I would have been mean... I think my letter would have started with something like:
    In our culture of diverse political thinking, it is rare to run across an opinion piece that is absolutely wrong on every single point that was made. You have somehow managed to do just that.
    I seriously could not find one credible opinion point to be made in the entire article. The author did manage to state a few facts correctly.

    The article is on-line now, by the way.

    TFred
    Why do you think your letter "would have started with..."? Why didn't it actually start with what you said? I would hope that Neill's in-box is flooded with such messages

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Why do you think your letter "would have started with..."? Why didn't it actually start with what you said? I would hope that Neill's in-box is flooded with such messages
    Yes... you got me. I'm not a Catholic, so the newsletter wasn't really written to me. Maybe that's a flimsy excuse? The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to write something.

    TFred

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    Who Publishes the Catholic Virginian?

    Is the Catholic Virginian the newspaper for the Diocese of Virginia?

    Just wondering.

    As a Catholic male, I am a member of the Knights of Columbus and recently achieved 4th Degree, which is the "Patriotic" Degree.

    The organization is very conservative in its outlook and would certainly frown on anti-gun rhetoric.

    While collecting for the KOVAR Campaign (fundraiser - Knights of Virginia Against Retardation - yes non-PC but a throwback to earlier days) in this area, I was OC'ing. Nobody cared.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugerdon View Post
    Is the Catholic Virginian the newspaper for the Diocese of Virginia?

    Just wondering.

    As a Catholic male, I am a member of the Knights of Columbus and recently achieved 4th Degree, which is the "Patriotic" Degree.

    The organization is very conservative in its outlook and would certainly frown on anti-gun rhetoric.

    While collecting for the KOVAR Campaign (fundraiser - Knights of Virginia Against Retardation - yes non-PC but a throwback to earlier days) in this area, I was OC'ing. Nobody cared.
    Perhaps KofC should respond to this editorial also.

    For those who may not be familiar with this publication, please see http://www.catholicvirginian.org/index.html

    The demographics of this publication are significant: 73,000 circulation, bi-weekly to every household in the Diocese of Richmond, which covers the entire southern half of Virginia.

  19. #19
    Regular Member SAvage410's Avatar
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    Just sent this off...

    To: Mr. Steve Neil, The Catholic Virginian
    Subject: Response to your most recent editorial
    Date: 07/12/2010

    Dear Mr. Neil:

    As a matter of course, I deeply resent you exercising your enumerated and constitutionally protected right to free speech in order to disparage my enumerated and similarly protected right to keep and bear arms.

    You appear to be woefully uninformed about Virginia dining establishments. There are no “bars” in the state of Virginia, only restaurants that may serve alcohol in addition to food; a subtle distinction, but a real one, nonetheless. You are also naive in the extreme if you believe that concealed weapons were not present in these establishments previously. True, law-abiding citizens were prevented from so carrying, but as news reports over the years have made clear, those who disregard other laws have had no qualms about disregarding a concealed carry ban either.

    You are also woefully uninformed regarding Virginia's gun laws. You state that “Many people do not realize that Virginia law allows people with proper permits to carry a gun in the open.” This is laughably, demonstrably false. One needs no permit whatsoever to openly carry a firearm in Virginia. So long as age restrictions are met, and you are not a convicted felon, you can walk into any gun shop, and legally purchase a firearm. You may then legally place it in a holster and walk down the street with no requirement for any sort of a permit. You are only required to obtain a permit should you wish to carry your firearm in a concealed manner.

    As to your question: “but why else would you go to a bar? Those who frequent bars don’t go for soft drinks or iced tea.” I can tell you that when I frequent a dining establishment I go for the food and, in most cases, companionship either with my wife of many years, or with friends and associates. I rarely drink even at home, so it is fallacious of you to assume that I go to an establishment merely to get drunk and cause trouble. Indeed, in the news report you quoted in your opinion piece, it was noted that 60 gun owners gathered in a restaurant in suburban Richmond to celebrate the repeal of an unnecessary restriction. It should also be noted that the gathering was peaceful. No one got drunk, no one “busted a cap”, no one was disorderly, and no one was arrested or charged with so much as a misdemeanor. So much for the “why else would you go to a bar” fallacy that you promote as insight.

    As to why I would not simply avoid going where I expect trouble, I would ask you to explicitly point to any establishment, even one’s own home, where uninvited trouble is guaranteed to be absent. There are a number of famous cases in this country where people engaging in no risky behavior whatsoever found themselves in the middle of a criminal activity. Luby’s Cafeteria in Texas comes to mind, as does Virginia Tech, Columbine High School, the Amish School in Pennsylvania. None of the individuals murdered in these and other incidents had given their murderer even the slightest provocation. All were in supposedly “safe” locations. All were unarmed and unable to defend themselves.

    Even staying away from public places is insufficient to completely avoid contact with criminally-minded individuals – witness numerous news article articles regarding home invasions, burglaries and the like. You are similarly not guaranteed safety merely walking down the street, as is readily apparent when reading news of muggings, rapes, robberies and murders committed in public places.

    Make no mistake – the firearm others and I carry is not a magic talisman – it will not ward off evil any more than will holding up a cross in the face of a determined attacker. Like a seat belt in your car, however, it can increase the odds of survival if carried consistently. In short, I do not carry a weapon in order to start a fight – I carry it for my own protection and that of my loved ones should unanticipated and unprovoked danger appear suddenly.

    You claim that people are intimidated when they observe a fellow citizen openly carrying a firearm. I have two responses to that. The first is that it is as much my right to carry a weapon to defend myself, as it is your right to publish an uninformed, biased op-ed piece. The only reason people are fearful is that we have for too long consented to being disarmed in public - buying into the false notion that the police can protect us. As more ordinary citizens embrace their right to protect themselves, the distress will fade away as the general public comes to realize that most weapons carriers are in fact peaceable citizens like themselves. Secondly, if by wearing my firearm openly I intimidate someone and thereby dissuade an attack, I say that’s a good thing, and am proud to have done even a small bit of public service.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Well said SAvage410. Well said indeed.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    God, save me from your alleged followers!

    "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36).

    The sword in Christs day was the hand gun of today.

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    Good Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Perhaps KofC should respond to this editorial also.

    For those who may not be familiar with this publication, please see http://www.catholicvirginian.org/index.html

    The demographics of this publication are significant: 73,000 circulation, bi-weekly to every household in the Diocese of Richmond, which covers the entire southern half of Virginia.
    Since the Catholic Virginian is a publication of the Diocese of Richmond, then I would defer to a Knights of Columbus Assembly, or Council, in that area. I fall under the Diocese of Arlington.

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    Perhaps the Writer Would Like to See My Vanity Tags

    I don't want to say exactly what my plates say as this would ID exactly who I am, but they have my favorite firearm plus the number of them that I own.

    This brought up a discussion between my wife and I as to why that number is cited:

    She: "Did you have to get that number because there were that many (one less) before you wanting to cite that model firearm?"

    Me: "No, that's how many of those guns I have."

    She: "Does that number include the one you bought me and the one you carry all the time?"

    Me: "No, you have a Taurus and I carry a Smith and Wesson."

    She: "Then you have more guns that I realized you have. How many?"

    Me: "I lost count; I don't know."

    She: "M-m-m-m."

    The plates are Knights of Columbus specialty plates.

  24. #24
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Well said SAvage410. Well said indeed.
    +1

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