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Thread: Green Bay Press - Allouez repeals general open carry ban, but keeps park gun ban

  1. #1
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    Green Bay Press - Allouez repeals general open carry ban, but keeps park gun ban

    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...t-not-in-parks

    SNIP

    ALLOUEZ — More than a year after Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said it's legal to openly carry firearms in public in the state, the Village Board voted to change its ordinance to agree with that advisory.

    Board members recently voted to allow people to openly carry firearms while banning them in public parks unless they are unloaded and enclosed in a case.

    Residents also are not allowed to have a BB, airsoft, paintball or pellet gun or either a slingshot or bow on public property unless it is unarmed and in its case. It is illegal for people, outside of police officers, to shoot or discharge a firearm in the village.

    De Pere and Ashwaubenon repealed ordinances that banned open carry in October 2009.

    But it took several months for the Allouez Village Board members to redraft the details of their ordinance after officials recently became aware of the discrepancy with the law, Village Board President Steve Vanden Avond said.

    "Of course we're going to obey the federal and state law with the right to bear arms, but we wanted to discuss how much we wanted to restrict after that," Vanden Avond said.

    Trustee Lynn Green supported banning firearms in parks in the ordinance when the panel met on the matter on June 15. Alcohol is allowed in the parks, and firearms are not allowed where alcohol is served, she said.

    "In my opinion, you don't want to be dictating too much what people are doing in their own homes," Vanden Avond said. "But, on the other hand, there is a limit. You have to consider public safety. Someone can't be making a bomb in their basement."

    . . .
    Last edited by Mike; 07-11-2010 at 08:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...t-not-in-parks

    ALLOUEZ More than a year after Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said it's legal to openly carry firearms in public in the state, the Village Board voted to change its ordinance to agree with that advisory.

    Board members recently voted to allow people to openly carry firearms while banning them in public parks unless they are unloaded and enclosed in a case.

    Residents also are not allowed to have a BB, airsoft, paintball or pellet gun or either a slingshot or bow on public property unless it is unarmed and in its case. It is illegal for people, outside of police officers, to shoot or discharge a firearm in the village.

    De Pere and Ashwaubenon repealed ordinances that banned open carry in October 2009.

    But it took several months for the Allouez Village Board members to redraft the details of their ordinance after officials recently became aware of the discrepancy with the law, Village Board President Steve Vanden Avond said.

    "Of course we're going to obey the federal and state law with the right to bear arms, but we wanted to discuss how much we wanted to restrict after that," Vanden Avond said.

    Trustee Lynn Green supported banning firearms in parks in the ordinance when the panel met on the matter on June 15. Alcohol is allowed in the parks, and firearms are not allowed where alcohol is served, she said.

    "In my opinion, you don't want to be dictating too much what people are doing in their own homes," Vanden Avond said. "But, on the other hand, there is a limit. You have to consider public safety. Someone can't be making a bomb in their basement."

    Residents can only use a bow and arrow or Co2-powered BB, airsoft, paintball or pellet gun inside their own residence. Guns powered by Co2 are considered less accurate than other compressed air guns, which are powered by nitrogen.

    Any other type of slingshot or BB, airsoft, paintball or pellet gun can be shot on their property as long as the projectile does not leave their yard or endanger others.

    Those who violate the rules will forfeit the weapon and be fined between $500 and $5,000. The original ordinance included a maximum $1,000 fine.

    "I want to prevent the arrow from going over the fence, I don't want to fine people if it does," Vanden Avond said.
    This guy, Vanden Avond said some pretty stupid stuff! IMHO.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    and they'll need to change it again because the park thing is preempted.

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    What is the "need" please?

    Quote Originally Posted by qball54208 View Post
    This guy, ... said some pretty stupid stuff! IMHO.
    66.0409 says shall not "enact or adopt" but nothing about what to do if it is enacted or adopted.

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    "Those who violate the rules will forfeit the weapon and be fined between $500 and $5,000. The original ordinance included a maximum $1,000 fine."

    Hmmm weapons confiscation, that should be interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...t-not-in-parks


    "Of course we're going to obey the federal and state law with the right to bear arms, but we wanted to discuss how much we wanted to restrict after that," Vanden Avond said.

    Trustee Lynn Green supported banning firearms in parks in the ordinance when the panel met on the matter on June 15. Alcohol is allowed in the parks, and firearms are not allowed where alcohol is served, she said.

    "In my opinion, you don't want to be dictating too much what people are doing in their own homes," Vanden Avond said. "But, on the other hand, there is a limit. You have to consider public safety. Someone can't be making a bomb in their basement."
    "How much we wanted to restrict after that" Does that mean how much can we get away with?

    "Alcohol is allowed in the parks', but I doubt it is being served in a business with a liquor license. Again a super stretch of the imagination. They must have sat and discussed a lot of feelings over this one.

    "making a bomb in their basement" I don't even know what to say about this one. What the heck does it even have to do with the whole matter. It's kinda like saying we don't want anyone building a spaceship in their garage.

    These people have absolutely no idea what they are doing, might as well be a mechanic trying to shoe a horse. Biggest bunch of nonsense I've heard in a while. Boondocks version of Daley.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    and they'll need to change it again because the park thing is preempted.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    "Those who violate the rules will forfeit the weapon and be fined between $500 and $5,000. The original ordinance included a maximum $1,000 fine."
    Hmmm weapons confiscation, that should be interesting.
    At least a few City Attorneys and DAs have the opinion that a City/County park ban is no more stringent than a State Park ban. No such Park ban or Park ban citation has been challenged in court yet.....

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    I would imagine that all municipalities that have staff counsel (have) had their ordinances reviewed and approved. It was a bullet point in my WTA ordinance writing class; have proposed ordinances reviewed by a lawyer. 66.0409 is a toothless anile attempt to preempt home rule.

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    941.237 Carrying handgun where alcohol beverages
    may be sold and consumed.

    I didn't know the city parks had a permanent Class "B" license.

    I think the city council should rethink their position before this costs the city a small fortune.

    And as far as the gun confiscation, all I can say is......Molon Labe!

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    Trustee Green is half-smart. You ever work with any convict trustys that are half-smart?

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    Quote Originally Posted by doug huffman View Post
    trustee green is half-smart. You ever work with any convict trustys that are half-smart?
    lol!

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    941.237 Carrying handgun where alcohol beverages
    may be sold and consumed.

    I didn't know the city parks had a permanent Class "B" license.

    I think the city council should rethink their position before this costs the city a small fortune.

    And as far as the gun confiscation, all I can say is......Molon Labe!
    If I recall correctly, Wirth Park in Brookfield has a sign that says you need to get permit from the city if you are going to have alcohol present, otherwise you'll get fined. I would imagine most parks operate this way. What type of license is this?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    If I recall correctly, Wirth Park in Brookfield has a sign that says you need to get permit from the city if you are going to have alcohol present, otherwise you'll get fined. I would imagine most parks operate this way. What type of license is this?
    Doubt it is a B license, more likely a BS license.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
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    maybe they kept the park ban because the criminals never use the parks.....yeah, right, sure.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    the Board was comparing people that carry guns with people that make bombs...WERE BAD PEOPLE.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  16. #16
    McX
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    i prefer to be labeled; gnarly people, bad people i know and there are plenty of them!

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    Regular Member Krusty's Avatar
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    941.237 Carrying handgun where alcohol beverages may be sold and consumed.

    Since the opposition is so intent on picking all wording apart, I'd say the word "AND" is our keyword. Maybe something should be done about "selling" alcohol in the city park. Is that violating some kind of law? Or the words "MAY BE" tends to change everything.

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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Well if I understand this right state park and national park carry is ok:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf

    National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges (NWR) Carry
    National Park Carry will go into effect February 22, 2010. That means if you have a
    permit/license that is legal in the state the National Park is located in you can carry in that
    National Park. Until that time carry in National Parks is illegal.
    Title 36 Chpt. 1 Part 2 2.4 Weapons traps and nets.
    (h) Notwithstanding any other provision in this Chapter, a person may possess,
    carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area
    in accordance with the laws of the state in which the national park area, or that portion there of,
    is located, except as otherwise prohibited by applicable federal law.
    Chapter 50 Chapter 1 Part 27 27.42 Firearms.
    www.handgunlaw.us 2
    (e) Notwithstanding any other provision in this Chapter, persons may possess,
    carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national wildlife
    refuge in accordance with the laws of the state in which the wildlife refuge, or that
    portion thereof, is located, except as otherwise prohibited by applicable federal law.
    National Forests
    Some states have laws concerning carrying in National Forest. You must know the law.
    In most states if it is legal for you to carry a firearm concealed in the state the National Forest is
    in you can carry your firearm concealed in a National Forest in that state. If it is legal to carry a
    firearm openly on your hip in the state the National Forest is in you can legally carry it that way
    in the National Forest in that state. Some states have have laws against carrying in National
    Forests in their state. Look at each states page to see if it is legal to carry in National Forests in
    that state.
    Do be advised that any Ranger Station or Visitors Center in any National Forest is considered
    a Federal Building. It is illegal to carry any firearm into such a building either concealed or
    openly even with a CCW from the state the National Forest Ranger Station or Visitors Center is
    in.

    And this appears to be actual Federal code

    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....0.1.1.2.0.1.4

    2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.
    (h) Notwithstanding any other provision in this Chapter, a person may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area in accordance with the laws of the state in which the national park area, or that portion thereof, is located, except as otherwise prohibited by applicable Federal law.

    And apparently you have to disarm to walk into the bathrooms or the ranger stations, because they are government owned buildings. "Here hunny hold this...I have to pee" Or "here hunny hold this, take a seat I might be in there a few minutes" LoL

    So my logical conclusion is OC in WI is ok, so OC in a National Park or Forest after Feb 2010 is ok, so any local county or city park is preemted and unenforceable right?
    Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI

    The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI

    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

    http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park;those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.
    http://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/firearms.htm

    Facilities where a federal employee normal works are restricted - restrooms with exterior, separate entrances are not.
    http://www.nps.gov/glac/parkmgmt/upl...NAL%5B1%5D.pdf

    Also concessions/shops that are leased by private third parties are not covered under the "federal facility" definition.
    http://www.nps.gov/glac/parkmgmt/upl...NAL%5B1%5D.pdf
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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