KSP OK Open or Concealed

I was stopped this evening at 6:45 PM at an intersection/checkpoint by KSP in Boyd County. Officer Kelly asked for my operators license, I presented my operators license with which has my conceal carry license attached. He walked to the back of my vehicle , looked at my license tag, asked me if I had my weapon. I answered 'Yes'. He asked "Where is it?" I answered "On my side." He gave me a thumbs up, handed me back my license and said "We're glad to see people that have their license carry their gun with them." I thanked him and went on my way. I was OC at the time.

Undertaker said:

I was stopped this evening at 6:45 PM at an intersection/checkpoint by KSP in Boyd County. Officer Kelly asked for my operators license, I presented my operators license with which has my conceal carry license attached. He walked to the back of my vehicle , looked at my license tag, asked me if I had my weapon. I answered 'Yes'. He asked "Where is it?" I answered "On my side." He gave me a thumbs up, handed me back my license and said "We're glad to see people that have their license carry their gun with them." I thanked him and went on my way. I was OC at the time.

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UhOh! sounds to me like if he would've encountered you without a ccdw then things might not have been cool?

Well, generally, or how it should work, if an LEO stops you or you have a "chance meeting" and they are presented with a CCDW license, most would be a bit more at ease with the subject, UNLESS they suspect that individual in a crime. Most LEO see those of us that are CCDW licensed not as threats but as someone how really cares enough to go that extra step and take a stand for our own self-defense. They know that they can't be EVERYWHERE and with extra eyes, hears, and if need be, guns out there on the side of the "good guys" it's all the better for everyone involved.

That is awesome...... but it should not matter about the CCDW if you was OC. we that do not have one yet are less of a LBC ? does the class and $75 make the CCDW better than me ? i have taken the class and passed in 1991 but did not follow up and get the card. and there is no Law in KY fobbiding OC. it's just frustrating.


OTE=Undertaker;1304529]I was stopped this evening at 6:45 PM at an intersection/checkpoint by KSP in Boyd County. Officer Kelly asked for my operators license, I presented my operators license with which has my conceal carry license attached. He walked to the back of my vehicle , looked at my license tag, asked me if I had my weapon. I answered 'Yes'. He asked "Where is it?" I answered "On my side." He gave me a thumbs up, handed me back my license and said "We're glad to see people that have their license carry their gun with them." I thanked him and went on my way. I was OC at the time.[/QUOTE]

Good Job

Encouraging post! Thanks for sharing!

No, it's not that the CCDW makes anyone better than anyone else. It's just that when LEO's are aware that a subject has been researched and cleared to carry a concealed deadly weapon, it is a sigh of relief to an extent. They know at that point that they're just dealing with someone who's carrying a sidearm out there who might be a "good guy" or a "bad guy" and with that uncertainty and the fact that that individual has a gun, it unfortunately tends to make them all the more tense.

Most LEO's that are shot and killed are shot during what starts out as a simple traffic stop for minor issues. So that has to be taken into account as well.

Granted, according to KRS you do NOT have to inform the LEO in a stop that you are carrying whether OC or CC but personally, I do! I find that for whatever reason, when I'm asked for my DL and I also hand them my CCDW, that they tend to relax a bit and that alone can go a LONG WAYS to aiding you in the stop.

neuroblades said:

No, it's not that the CCDW makes anyone better than anyone else. It's just that when LEO's are aware that a subject has been researched and cleared to carry a concealed deadly weapon, it is a sigh of relief to an extent. They know at that point that they're just dealing with someone who's carrying a sidearm out there who might be a "good guy" or a "bad guy" and with that uncertainty and the fact that that individual has a gun, it unfortunately tends to make them all the more tense.

Most LEO's that are shot and killed are shot during what starts out as a simple traffic stop for minor issues. So that has to be taken into account as well.

Granted, according to KRS you do NOT have to inform the LEO in a stop that you are carrying whether OC or CC but personally, I do! I find that for whatever reason, when I'm asked for my DL and I also hand them my CCDW, that they tend to relax a bit and that alone can go a LONG WAYS to aiding you in the stop.

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and i agree with you 100% and i would offer that info to a LEO right off the bat asked or not asked, i have nothing to hide. its just sometime on here i have felt like a second class gun advocate because i have not gotten my CCDW as of yet. i may be wrong but some of what i have read did make me feel that way... and this site is after all called open carry . org not open and concealed . org and please dont take me wrong i am all for the CCDW its just i came to the site to learn more about open carry. i already passed the CCDW the first year it was offered in Kentucky i just never followed up on it. long story lol. had a girl friend living with me that was on parole so had to sell every gun i had for her to live there............. I KNOW I WAS AN IDIOT hide sites 20/20
but thanks a ton for responding i enjoy the interaction

kenneth meier said:

and i agree with you 100% and i would offer that info to a LEO right off the bat asked or not asked, i have nothing to hide. its just sometime on here i have felt like a second class gun advocate because i have not gotten my CCDW as of yet. i may be wrong but some of what i have read did make me feel that way... and this site is after all called open carry . org not open and concealed . org and please dont take me wrong i am all for the CCDW its just i came to the site to learn more about open carry. i already passed the CCDW the first year it was offered in Kentucky i just never followed up on it. long story lol. had a girl friend living with me that was on parole so had to sell every gun i had for her to live there............. I KNOW I WAS AN IDIOT hide sites 20/20
but thanks a ton for responding i enjoy the interaction

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Hey man, quit beating yourself up. I, nor anyone else on here is claiming to be 'better' than you or anyone else. If you are a U.S. Citizen, then be a GOOD U.S. Citizen. Actions speak much louder than words. I encourage you to carry your weapon openly, it's your RIGHT to protect yourself. I also encourage you, as I'm sure some of the others her would also, to obtain your conceald carry license. There are times when the situation requires me, for my own reasons, to conceal my weapon. Use this site with common sense. There are a lot of extremely knowledgable people, some I would go as far as considering an expert in the field of personal defense, who offer very good advice. I ask for it all the time on this site. Be smart, there are a few numbnuts here as well as on any forum. CARRY ON SIR.

Undertaker said:

Hey man, quit beating yourself up. I, nor anyone else on here is claiming to be 'better' than you or anyone else. If you are a U.S. Citizen, then be a GOOD U.S. Citizen. Actions speak much louder than words. I encourage you to carry your weapon openly, it's your RIGHT to protect yourself. I also encourage you, as I'm sure some of the others her would also, to obtain your conceald carry license. There are times when the situation requires me, for my own reasons, to conceal my weapon. Use this site with common sense. There are a lot of extremely knowledgable people, some I would go as far as considering an expert in the field of personal defense, who offer very good advice. I ask for it all the time on this site. Be smart, there are a few numbnuts here as well as on any forum. CARRY ON SIR.

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thanks undertsaker,
i have seen there is a wealth of well inform individuals here and i am greatfull to have found this site, makes me want to preach to everyone i know. i am overwhelmed of the people i know who knows nothing of there rights. maybe i can make a difference now with this info and point them here.

My 3 Cents

A little LEO story from about 2 years ago. I was stopped by the local police for a small infraction of the law. He came to my window and asked for the usual, drivers license, insurance and registration. I informed him that my .357 S&W was in the glove box where my registration and insurance card were. He then asked if I had a CDWL and I asked whats that got to do with anything? He said I had to have one to carry in the glove box. I asked if he wanted my registration and insurance card or not. He said yes. I gave all three to him and he again asked for my CDWL. I refused to give it to him. He went to his car for about 10 minutes, came back and handed back all three items, said you are correct on the lawful carry in a glovebox, said have a nice day and left. I never give information, credentials or ID of any kind unless required by law. Now you may ask why. Because, LEO's begin to believe they have a right to certain info when they don't. If you say no, they learn. And as a side note, I did move up the food chain so that the other LEO's within that department knew glovebox carry is not considered concealed carry.

And to think he should have known the Law

hotrod said:

A little LEO story from about 2 years ago. I was stopped by the local police for a small infraction of the law. He came to my window and asked for the usual, drivers license, insurance and registration. I informed him that my .357 S&W was in the glove box where my registration and insurance card were. He then asked if I had a CDWL and I asked whats that got to do with anything? He said I had to have one to carry in the glove box. I asked if he wanted my registration and insurance card or not. He said yes. I gave all three to him and he again asked for my CDWL. I refused to give it to him. He went to his car for about 10 minutes, came back and handed back all three items, said you are correct on the lawful carry in a glovebox, said have a nice day and left. I never give information, credentials or ID of any kind unless required by law. Now you may ask why. Because, LEO's begin to believe they have a right to certain info when they don't. If you say no, they learn. And as a side note, I did move up the food chain so that the other LEO's within that department knew glovebox carry is not considered concealed carry.

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awesome

KRM59 said:

That is awesome...... but it should not matter about the CCDW if you was OC. we that do not have one yet are less of a LBC ? does the class and $75 make the CCDW better than me ? i have taken the class and passed in 1991 but did not follow up and get the card. and there is no Law in KY fobbiding OC. it's just frustrating.

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No, you didn't.

Concealed carry in Kentucky didn't pass until five years later, in 1996. Good try, though. (I got my permit as soon as possible that year).


History of KRS 237.110, the law governing CCDW in Kentucky -

History: Amended 2008 Ky. Acts ch. 96, sec. 2, effective July 15, 2008. -- Amended 2007 Ky. Acts ch. 85, sec. 266, effective June 26, 2007. -- Amended 2006 Ky. Acts ch. 240, sec. 2, effective July 12, 2006. -- Amended 2005 Ky. Acts ch. 99, sec. 565, effective June 20, 2005; and ch. 182, sec. 15, effective March 31, 2005. -- Amended 2004 Ky. Acts ch. 86, sec. 1, effective July 13, 2004. -- Amended 2002 Ky. Acts ch. 368, sec. 2, effective July 15, 2002. -- Amended 2000 Ky. Acts ch. 455, sec. 1, effective July 14, 2000. -- Amended 1998 Ky. Acts ch. 417, sec. 1, effective July 15, 1998; ch. 494, sec. 1, effective July 15, 1998; and ch. 606, sec. 136, effective July 15, 1998. -- Created 1996 Ky. Acts ch. 119, sec. 1, effective October 1, 1996.

hotrod said:

A little LEO story from about 2 years ago. I was stopped by the local police for a small infraction of the law. He came to my window and asked for the usual, drivers license, insurance and registration. I informed him that my .357 S&W was in the glove box where my registration and insurance card were. He then asked if I had a CDWL and I asked whats that got to do with anything? He said I had to have one to carry in the glove box. I asked if he wanted my registration and insurance card or not. He said yes. I gave all three to him and he again asked for my CDWL. I refused to give it to him. He went to his car for about 10 minutes, came back and handed back all three items, said you are correct on the lawful carry in a glovebox, said have a nice day and left. I never give information, credentials or ID of any kind unless required by law. Now you may ask why. Because, LEO's begin to believe they have a right to certain info when they don't. If you say no, they learn. And as a side note, I did move up the food chain so that the other LEO's within that department knew glovebox carry is not considered concealed carry.

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I presume you're aware that he could have chosen to take control of the weapon during the encounter, but did not.


I believe that, as a law enforcement officer, when people who are armed begin to become argumentative for no apparent reason, they should no longer be armed for the duration of my contact. But hey, don't believe me - check the Supreme Court's decisions on disarming a person during an encounter for officer safety.

And there's the problem - one that has been brought up before on another forum I frequent, but without a satisfactory answer from the guys in the "It's my right" camp.

Since officers are allowed to disarm, and even unload, a firearm during a contact with an armed (legally or not) subject, do you think they SHOULD do so everytime? After all, it's within the law. Granted, doing so will win the officer no friends, but last I checked, I wasn't in this to make friends with people. It's within my rights, and damn it, I'm gonna do it!!!

So, just because we CAN, does that mean we SHOULD? That question is applicable on both sides of this argument.

wprebeck said:

I presume you're aware that he could have chosen to take control of the weapon during the encounter, but did not.


I believe that, as a law enforcement officer, when people who are armed begin to become argumentative for no apparent reason, they should no longer be armed for the duration of my contact. But hey, don't believe me - check the Supreme Court's decisions on disarming a person during an encounter for officer safety.

And there's the problem - one that has been brought up before on another forum I frequent, but without a satisfactory answer from the guys in the "It's my right" camp.

Since officers are allowed to disarm, and even unload, a firearm during a contact with an armed (legally or not) subject, do you think they SHOULD do so everytime? After all, it's within the law. Granted, doing so will win the officer no friends, but last I checked, I wasn't in this to make friends with people. It's within my rights, and damn it, I'm gonna do it!!!

So, just because we CAN, does that mean we SHOULD? That question is applicable on both sides of this argument.

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Well let me qualify myself a little further. Not because it is needed, but, from other post's, from you, telling that you are a LEO when stopped by LE. You do this to gain attention and a favorable outcome from the officer that stopped you. This is known among LEO as professional courtesy. I know because I graduated from FLETC in 1983 after many years in LE in the USMC. I never let anyone know that I am/was a LEO. I get a check from Uncle Sam every month if you wish to know how long I was around.

Now, for your post, I know he could have taken control of my handgun until the stop was complete. The problem is he didn't know the law. I hope you know, I am not required to have a CDWL to have a weapon in the glovebox. He had no reason to ask for it. And when he contacted whom ever and found he was wrong, he returned my license, registration and insurance card and departed. I didn't care if he took the weapon, but, I am damn tired of hearing ever LEO in the country worried about their safety and using that as a reason to use actions not needed during any stop. If you wish to chase tail lights for a living, you should know your safety is conditioned upon your ability to assess the situation and act accordingly.

The problem is with LEO who believe that badge gives them the right to be ignorant. I don't care if I am disarmed during a stop, but, you better have RAS that I committed a crime or I am about to commit a crime. I have heard numerous LEO say " I didn't know they could do that". Open carry in Kentucky is a right, concealed carry is a privilage. Your powers are a privilage. If you do not know the law, I have the right to argue. If you use your power to disarm me because you're not up on the law, I have the right to complain to your boss. Hopefully you will learn.

Quit using officer safety as a catch all for decisions rather than using investigatory skills to determine your course of action.

Out of curiousity, what agency sent you to FLETC, and did you attend Glycno or another center?

wprebeck said:

Out of curiousity, what agency sent you to FLETC, and did you attend Glycno or another center?

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I worked for the US Justice Dept. not US Treasury. The division is something I would like to keep to myself. And yes I did attend at Glynco and was there for almost 3 months. That doesn't include returning for additional training as required. Also firearms qualification as required.