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Thread: So, am i just over optimistic? Or is it possible to change this?

  1. #1
    Regular Member American Boy With a Gun's Avatar
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    So, am i just over optimistic? Or is it possible to change this?

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor;
    penalty.
    Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of
    1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that
    firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    131 FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN — STATUTES § 750.234d
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the
    permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or
    a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


    Alright, everyone knows (at least i hope) how stupid this is. For (Insert Deity Here)'s SAKE!! If i were to want to carry in, ehh, Wal-Mart, Meijer, Shoppers, Gas Stations, or Party Stores....i would need a CPL, which i CANT get till im 21. Thats 3 years of being un-armed in places where your most likely to need your side arm!!!??? Is there ANY hope of ANYONE getting this changed to something, oh idont know, not so idiotic? Such as " An establishment that serves alcohol on site" or even the 50% rule?


    Oh, and whilst were at it, Every firearm thats in a vehicle is considered concealed...thats the 2nd stupidest thing ive ever heard...1st being stated above.
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." -- Samuel Adams, 1776

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject

  2. #2
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    I doubt you would see it changed before you turned 21.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  3. #3
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    I couldnt agree more, this is some of the stoopidist Bull$hit Ive ever run across. Its right up there with having a store employee or manager determine if you can exercise your rights.

    If we give up and think it cant be done, then it wont get done.

  4. #4
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    i think if we tried,we COULD get it done before we are 21(3 years away for the both of us) but i think 25 would be more realistic.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    gogogogo

    This was the law that pissed me off the most while waiting for CPL to finally be given to me (yesterday). Since getting my CPL I have been to the liquor store twice and Kroger once. I dont think I had done any grocery shopping for the past 5 or 6 weeks while waiting for my CPL because I hated being away from my gun for that long.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  6. #6
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    screwy law

    you do have some dumb restrictions in your state!
    but with your CPL, you can OC in a BAR!
    in washington there is no legal carry in a bar..
    but theres no restrictions on liquer stores etc.

    you can OC if 18 yr old
    we cant until 21,,, except when hunting etc..

    we cant carry a loaded rifle in the car..
    youve got michigan pistols... wish i could registar my folded AK!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  7. #7
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    common sense gun laws right?

  8. #8
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    common sense gun laws right?
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  9. #9
    Regular Member American Boy With a Gun's Avatar
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    So, any ideas? And no, were not starting a revolution to change the law....something peaceful?
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." -- Samuel Adams, 1776

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject

  10. #10
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    1. Elect the most pro-gun governor we can.
    2. Elect the most pro-gun representatives we can
    3. Email, Call, Snailmail them every day (once elected) letting them know that one of the reasons they were voted in was to get rid of the gun restrictions in this state, and if they fail to act, they will fail to get re-elected.

    I have a feeling this election year is going to be huge. Friends that I have known for years and always voted Democratic, are waking up. They used to criticize Fox News, now they like Glen Beck. They see what Obama is doing to our nation, and what Granholm has done to this state, and they don't like it.

  11. #11
    Regular Member American Boy With a Gun's Avatar
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    Once the elections are done with, i think ima see if i can't get a group of like minded individuals together and E-mail, Call, Snailmail our pro-2A reps to change this. IDK if it's a useless attempt or not, but if theres any chance to further our (More like "Lessen restrictions on") gun rights, the what the he!!, why not?..
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." -- Samuel Adams, 1776

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject

  12. #12
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    I'm hoping our reps from up here will continue to be pro-gun. Traditionally, that's not been an issue that we've had to base our votes on, because both Democrats and Republicans get "A" ratings by the NRA. However, I'd like to see our representatives be more pro-active in the fight. Seems like they don't want to push gun rights, but will vote in favor of them, and (most importantly) vote AGAINST gun control.

  13. #13
    Regular Member American Boy With a Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    I'm hoping our reps from up here will continue to be pro-gun. Traditionally, that's not been an issue that we've had to base our votes on, because both Democrats and Republicans get "A" ratings by the NRA. However, I'd like to see our representatives be more pro-active in the fight. Seems like they don't want to push gun rights, but will vote in favor of them, and (most importantly) vote AGAINST gun control.

    Yep, seeing some reps actually push for gun rights might actually restore some of my faith in them. Buuuut probably not Were just gonna have to wait till the elections are over, then decide what to do from there. Im REALLY hoping we get some people in office who wouldnt be too hard to convince that this law is quite possibly the stupidest thing since the "Fewer guns = Less crime" idea
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." -- Samuel Adams, 1776

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject

  14. #14
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Boy With a Gun View Post
    Yep, seeing some reps actually push for gun rights might actually restore some of my faith in them. Buuuut probably not Were just gonna have to wait till the elections are over, then decide what to do from there. Im REALLY hoping we get some people in office who wouldnt be too hard to convince that this law is quite possibly the stupidest thing since the "Fewer guns = Less crime" idea
    We need to start now, the primaries are coming up. Email all of them (as all of us should so they know it's an important issue to those who they serve), and ask them if they would sign a bill that removed PFZ's, registrations, etc.
    That way, we can make the best informed decision in the primary election, and hopefully they'd win that and move on to win in the general election.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I have asked Dean Greenblatt to figure out for me if it's legal to OC under the authority of an out of state license as a Michigan resident, specifically while at the concealed carry free/licensed open carry okay zones.

    There is an old AG opinion about this very issue, where he stated that it wasn't legal to CC under the authority of an out of state license as a Mi resident, and cited some case law about absurd consequences of legal loopholes, and how it bypassed the controls of the gun board. Much has changed since then, specifically because Michigan is now shall issue and accepts like 33 states licences and permits since they are about as strict as our own. It MAY end up being decided that the out of state permits and licenses DO allow OC at CEZ's, or it might end up being decided that they don't. It's possible.

    Until such time as that mess is straightened out or you get a Michigan CPL, I suggest trying to find gun friendly grocery stores where the owners or managers will give you written permission to OC there.

    Another thing I think I should bring up is that if you need an effective weapon that won't likely land you in a world of drastic legal trouble unless you end up using it, regardless of what part of the US you are in, you can get a squeeze style nose spray bottle, remove the straw, fill the bottle with ammonia, and bore out the tip with a needle. This is one of the most effective non firearm weapons I've ever come across. It blinds, it isn't like pepper spray where it depends on pain compliance. So the legal liabilities are tremendous and it might just break a bunch of laws to carry depending on where you are, but the effectiveness is also tremendous. And of course the same problems pepper spray has also apply, in that cross contamination is a huge concern. Given the legal issues, I'm not suggesting anyone ever does it or not, but it is something that I feel everyone who might face needing to appear disarmed should know. (and of course, definitely don't carry it while OCing since there definitely isn't any nose spray bottle eye irritant preemption)
    Last edited by Michigander; 07-12-2010 at 06:30 PM.

  16. #16
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    Ive met Dean, hes a great guy.

    If you find a grocery store that will do that, lemme know.

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