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Thread: Telling an officer?

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    Telling an officer?

    I'm new to open carry and have a quick question. If you get pulled over by the police, are you obligated to tell them that you are armed? If so, when would you tell them?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Nope, no KRS that says you must inform the officer you are armed. If he asks you and you lie, that may be an offense (no idea). Some here will say that informing the officer is simply a professional courtesy, others will say it's none of the officer's business. I tend to fall into the latter. I think most here believe or acknowledge that when the officer runs your plates, he knows that you have a CCDW (if that's the case).

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    Regular Member Thos.Jefferson's Avatar
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    It is your RIGHT to be silent. If asked a question reply with a question of your own i.e. " Do you have any illegal weapons or drugs?" " Would you like to see my drivers' license and registration officer?" " Would you mind if I searched your vehicle?" " Have I committed a crime officer?" . I think you get the point.
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

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    Regular Member Undertaker's Avatar
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    When He Knows...

    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    Nope, no KRS that says you must inform the officer you are armed. If he asks you and you lie, that may be an offense (no idea). Some here will say that informing the officer is simply a professional courtesy, others will say it's none of the officer's business. I tend to fall into the latter. I think most here believe or acknowledge that when the officer runs your plates, he knows that you have a CCDW (if that's the case).
    It's not when he runs your plates but when he checks your operators license or state issued identification that the officer knows wether you hold a CCDW license. Think about it, if I'm driving my Mom's car, the plates won't tell anything about me.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    Nope, no KRS that says you must inform the officer you are armed. If he asks you and you lie, that may be an offense (no idea). Some here will say that informing the officer is simply a professional courtesy, others will say it's none of the officer's business. I tend to fall into the latter. I think most here believe or acknowledge that when the officer runs your plates, he knows that you have a CCDW (if that's the case).
    If stopped you are not required by KRS but personally, I do! It makes the stop go better, even more so if you have CCDW as well.

    You they ask and you lie to them and the find it, you're screwed, they will automatically assume you've got something to hide or that you're a criminal! I'm not saying it's right, just that that's how they see it.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
    It's not when he runs your plates but when he checks your operators license or state issued identification that the officer knows wether you hold a CCDW license. Think about it, if I'm driving my Mom's car, the plates won't tell anything about me.
    The first part of your post is wrong.
    When an LEO (and I am one) runs your registration plate through LINK (the state computer system that houses the information), the driver's license of the REGISTERED OWNER of the car is automatically retuned with the registration plate information.

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    License Plate (registration) does not identify the driver !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by aegri_mentis View Post
    The first part of your post is wrong.
    When an LEO (and I am one) runs your registration plate through LINK (the state computer system that houses the information), the driver's license of the REGISTERED OWNER of the car is automatically retuned with the registration plate information.
    WOW, I didn't realize that LINK was that intelligent. I knew that the license plate would give information to the registered owner of the vehicle but I didn't know that LINK knew exactly who was driving the vehicle at that moment. I understand your point as an officer of the law, you must assume, until otherwise investigated, that the driver is the registered owner of the vehicle. MY ONLY POINT WAS, AND STILL IS, THAT THE LICENSE PLATE (registration) DOES NOT IDENTIFY THE DRIVER. [ When and if LINK is ever able to indentify who is driving a particular vehicle .....I shall quit driving. ]

    I sincerely thank you and respect you, aegre_mentis, for your service as a Law Enforcement Officer and for what you endure each and every day in keeping this a more safe place for all of us. Carry on.

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
    WOW, I didn't realize that LINK was that intelligent. I knew that the license plate would give information to the registered owner of the vehicle but I didn't know that LINK knew exactly who was driving the vehicle at that moment. I understand your point as an officer of the law, you must assume, until otherwise investigated, that the driver is the registered owner of the vehicle. MY ONLY POINT WAS, AND STILL IS, THAT THE LICENSE PLATE (registration) DOES NOT IDENTIFY THE DRIVER. [ When and if LINK is ever able to indentify who is driving a particular vehicle .....I shall quit driving. ]

    I sincerely thank you and respect you, aegre_mentis, for your service as a Law Enforcement Officer and for what you endure each and every day in keeping this a more safe place for all of us. Carry on.
    Undertaker I read this differently than you. I think aegre_mentis means that if he is following a vehicle and runs the plate through LINK, the registered owner and drivers license of the registered owner, if they have one, comes up on the screen. I don't believe he meant the drivers info comes up. I believe that will give him an advantage when he approaches the car and gets the license of the driver. He then knows if it's the owner driving and if not he can now ask questions to determine if the operator has permission to drive the vehicle.
    Last edited by hotrod; 07-24-2010 at 01:27 PM.

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    Regular Member Undertaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    Undertaker I read this differently than you. I think aegre_mentis means that if he is following a vehicle and runs the plate through LINK, the registered owner and drivers license of the registered owner, if they have one, comes up on the screen. I don't believe he meant the drivers info comes up. I believe that will give him an advantage when he approaches the car and gets the license of the driver. He then knows if it's the owner driving and if not he can now ask questions to determine if the operator has permission to drive the vehicle.
    OK, I'm with you and certainly not trying to play devil's advocate. I was just trying to put an emphasis on Langzaiguy's reply that said when the LEO runs your plates he knows if you if you have a CCDW license. I thought we were discussing the individual in question, not the automobile. My apologies on misunderstanding aegri_mentis's reply.
    Last edited by Undertaker; 07-24-2010 at 02:09 PM. Reason: addition

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Devils Advocate is a good thing. Makes everybody think and contribute, helps make the topics and the understanding better. And I am by far any kind of expert. I have spent a good amount of my time in law enforcement and have an understanding, but do not agree with tactics.

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    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    Not an expert

    just a personal thought,
    setting aside the right to or not to inform you are armed, is it not respectful and or a good idea to inform the LEO when stoped that you are lawfully armed and carrying?

    i really want your imput on this..

    thanks

    added note.... when i took the CCDW (which i never sent off for the card) i remember this being one of the topics, and informing LEO at the time of stop was addressed as yes it is a good idea before giving DL/RGST
    Last edited by KRM59; 07-24-2010 at 03:28 PM.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth meier View Post
    just a personal thought,
    setting aside the right to or not to inform you are armed, is it not respectful and or a good idea to inform the LEO when stoped that you are lawfully armed and carrying?

    i really want your imput on this..

    thanks

    added note.... when i took the CCDW (which i never sent off for the card) i remember this being one of the topics, and informing LEO at the time of stop was addressed as yes it is a good idea before giving DL/RGST
    And this is a good idea for respect. Do I owe this officer respect? If he takes my weapon from me because I informed, is that respect. When he runs the serial number of my weapon and it's retained in the data bank that ran this information, is he giving me respect? When does the respect come back to me? This is why I don't inform. I don't offer any information more than I am required to. No disrespect, just understanding the rules and playing by the same ones the officer does.

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    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    And this is a good idea for respect. Do I owe this officer respect? If he takes my weapon from me because I informed, is that respect. When he runs the serial number of my weapon and it's retained in the data bank that ran this information, is he giving me respect? When does the respect come back to me? This is why I don't inform. I don't offer any information more than I am required to. No disrespect, just understanding the rules and playing by the same ones the officer does.
    and i respect your opinon, even if you don't get that respect from LE. i my self have never had a disrespectful encounter with LE as of yet. Not to say i won't at some point,and if not offering information of that type is the best course of action i will consider rethinking my point on it. i am new to all this OC and soon CC, been a Gun owner for many many years but never carried either way. and am still absorbing tons of information, and trying to seperate what should be from what shouldn't be.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
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    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
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    I know of no law that requires you to tell an officer if you are armed. Since in you original post you mention open carry, then ask about getting pulled over I assume you are talking about getting pulled over while open carrying. If you are open carrying and you do not have a CWP , it is my opinion,you should not have to tell the officer about your weapon. He should be able to see it when he walks up. If it's within your reach and the officer cannot see it you could get in trouble if it is later found by the officer. This is my opinion from what I have read in the KRS. There are many other opinions on here as you have seen and will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
    OK, I'm with you and certainly not trying to play devil's advocate. I was just trying to put an emphasis on Langzaiguy's reply that said when the LEO runs your plates he knows if you if you have a CCDW license. I thought we were discussing the individual in question, not the automobile. My apologies on misunderstanding aegri_mentis's reply.
    But that's it just teh point...If the officer does run YOUR plate (as in a vehicle YOU own), he will get that information back when LINK subsequently returns YOUR operator's license information.
    Of course if you're driving your mom's car, YOUR information would not come back until your license was ran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I find this whole idea of informing out of respect for the officer to be a red herring. Refusing to give up your rights is not disrespect. If it is, then maybe we should allow them to search our car out of respect, or search our home out of respect. Maybe we should respect them so much that we invite them into our bedroom and offer to let them rummage around in our wives' underwear. Opinions given in a CCDW class are no more valid than opinions at the local bar. Instructor's opinions are not vetted by the dept of criminal justice and the CCDW manual contains the law, not a compilation of instructors opinions. If this reasoning becomes commonplace, soon the police will assume (or claim) that they are being disrespected every time anyone asserts any right. Remaining silent=disrespect. Want a lawyer=disrespect. Claim to be innocent=disrespect. Offer a alibi=disrespect. Refuse to confess quilt=disrespect. Where does this end? Stand up and demand you rights.
    Gutshot, I find this line of reasoning to be quite a contradiction to the open carry philosophy.
    We, and others, proudly carry openly in public, but yet you hesitate to tell an officer you are openly carrying when he/she might not be able to see it? Why is that? If you are so heartset on OC, why would you hesitate to tell an officer?
    And this sentence..."If this reasoning becomes commonplace, soon the police will assume (or claim) that they are being disrespected every time anyone asserts any right" holds absolutly no water. If you are hiding (or at least not revealing) the fact that you are OCing, then you most certainly ARE NOT asserting that right.
    More than anything, I joined these boards to give LEO perspective, and to let everyone know that most of us don't give two flips if you are OCing. However, the sort of action you describe sometimes leads to mistakes of intent, which can lead to tragic consequences. Well before I was an LEO, I always, always told any LEO I had contact with I was carrying, whether OC or CC. I didn't want to do something the LEO would mistake as a move towards a previously unseen weapon, and get shot; and as an LEO, I don't want to be other other end, and mistakenly take action on a citizen who makes a move toward a previously unseen weapon.
    If you are going to "stand up and demand your rights", then man up and tell me you have a weapon.
    Last edited by aegri_mentis; 07-25-2010 at 06:54 AM.

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    Beware the evil paradigm of consideration ("respect"), expectation, then requirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Beware the evil paradigm of consideration ("respect"), expectation, then requirement.
    Slippery slope argument. Not valid in this instance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpawtact View Post
    I'm new to open carry and have a quick question. If you get pulled over by the police, are you obligated to tell them that you are armed? If so, when would you tell them?

    Thanks in advance.
    It depends upon the State. I won't tell in Tennessee because there is no requiring the cop be informed. If they ask for the carry permit you're supposed to show it under State law.

    All the cops know who I am, they've got a list of my employers, my work history, and cars with tag #'s.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    It depends upon the State. I won't tell in Tennessee because there is no requiring the cop be informed. If they ask for the carry permit you're supposed to show it under State law.

    All the cops know who I am, they've got a list of my employers, my work history, and cars with tag #'s.

    DOes this bulletin apply to you?

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    " ...and to let everyone know that MOST of us don't give two flips if you are OCing."

    And there is the tell tell sign that MOST of us fear. Aegri_Mentis, when all of the LEO's, instead of most, allow me to carry without question, I will maintain my right not to tell. But until such a time happens I will not give any LEO the opportunity to question my right to carry openly or concealed. Why do LEO's find it neccessary to know that I'm armed? If they are frightened of armed public, find other work. And you should man up and not worry about a citizens openly carrying a weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    And there is the tell tell sign that MOST of us fear. Aegri_Mentis, when all of the LEO's, instead of most, allow me to carry without question, I will maintain my right not to tell. But until such a time happens I will not give any LEO the opportunity to question my right to carry openly or concealed. Why do LEO's find it neccessary to know that I'm armed? If they are frightened of armed public, find other work. And you should man up and not worry about a citizens openly carrying a weapon.
    I can't speak for others, so all statements I make in this post or any other refer to me alone as an LEO, even if I use "we" or "us".
    It's not that we are "frightened" that you are armed. It's that we are scared we may misinterpret a movement towards a previously unseen weapon. I've already stated this point.
    I don't know ANY police officer that is worried about guns he/she can see. We are worried about the ones we DON'T see until the last second.
    And again, I am not advocating or attempting to dictate any course of action to anyone on this board. I'm simply trying to give the LEO perspective here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aegri_mentis View Post
    I don't know ANY police officer that is worried about guns he/she can see. We are worried about the ones we DON'T see until the last second.
    If that is true why are open carriers harrassed? There was another open carry guy cuffed in WA yesterday at a baby shower. IMO, cops do not like firearms and either don't know or misunderstand laws. This is the reason so many law abiding open carriers are harrassed and their civil rights violated.

    Yes, the bolo above was written to warn cops about me. So much for non public consumption. It appears that Jadon and Grassroots were refering to this document in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    If that is true why are open carriers harrassed? There was another open carry guy cuffed in WA yesterday at a baby shower. IMO, cops do not like firearms and either don't know or misunderstand laws. This is the reason so many law abiding open carriers are harrassed and their civil rights violated.

    Yes, the bolo above was written to warn cops about me. So much for non public consumption. It appears that Jadon and Grassroots were refering to this document in this thread.
    Dude, I've gone back and read some of your posts, and you're so far gone, I don't know why I even bother, but here goes...
    You say things like "cops don't like firearms, and either don't know or misunderstand the laws". You have shown yourself to be a person who doesn't like cops, makes a spectacle of yourself, then insist you want to be "left alone" and blame your problems on cops.
    You can't make blanket statements with absolutes like you do and expect anyone to take you seriously.
    Yeah, there are some cops out there that either misunderstand or are ignorant of some laws. It happens. Cops aren't attorneys, and not are they expected to be. The best thing YOU could do is strive for better education and training for LEOs, but instead,you want to set up confrontations with LEOs, so you can play the victim game.
    I know two Brentwood PD officers, and we talk online about once a week. I'm gonna ask them the real skinny on you, see what we are actually dealing with.
    What's truly sad is with your knowledge and dedication, you could be a force to really propel OC to the forefront, and get some real progress made, but you chose to sit aside and babble and blather.
    Last edited by aegri_mentis; 07-25-2010 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Didn't want to give him ammo...

  25. #25
    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    Respect to all of the opinons

    I for one will inform LE that i am armed " IF" i am stopped and only if i know they can not see the weapon either OC or CC. Be it for respect,common curtasy, or just good judgement. I will not however offer my weapon for inspection unless i am being charged with a crime.
    think what you will of me, makes me no difference. i personaly know to many LEO's
    and i give them respect untill they show me they do not desirve it from me.If you have had encounters with LE that gave you no respect i fully understand your stand. but with all this being said, i fully respect each of your thoughts and opinons.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
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