how do you transport a handgun if you do not wish to OC & you are walking?

gmijackso · Jul 16, 2010

Remmy said:
curious as to how after knowing such laws you carry your newly purchased weapon out of a store you just bought it from? I have only ever just walked out to my car like Ive described. Do you field strip prior to having the sales person wrap it up and finalize?

I will note that I've only purchased pistols here in NV, and as such holster it out just like any other pistol you carry openly. If the store isn't ok with that, no need to do business with them. Should also be noted that a long gun, according to NRS, isn't capable of being concealed so you can carry those (guns with a barrel longer than 12") any way you wish (providing there isn't a round in the chamber, but I was speaking concealment-wise).

28kfps · Jul 16, 2010

Remmy said:
I believe the definition being refereed to is

This is definitely interesting topic, each time I have made a purchase from a gun store, BassPro being where I purchased my M&P40C. I was handed the pistol in its manufactures plastic case, not locked, unloaded, trigger lock installed, just before you are to walk out of the store. I did not have ammo this day as I was not purchasing any at the time. I then proceeded to walk to my vehicle and drive home. The firearm at this point was not capable of being fired, but none the less IS designed to be used as a weapon.

This is of course is another classic case of the NRS language being vague at best. As the above NRS states that a Firearm is: "...any device designed to be used as a weapon from which a projectile may be expelled through the barrel by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion." So by pure definition and literal translation, the gun you just purchased is very much designed to be used as a weapon therefore is a weapon.NRS makes no mention of being "capable of launching..." However, it would be asinine to say the least to be charged under NRS 202.350 carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, and not sure how well it would hold up in court. IANAL

I dont believe it is feasible to always go by the "strict letter of the law", we have to remember these laws were written by humans which are fallible. Our very own constitution is "interpreted" to say our laws are not would be ignorant. Every day laws being broken or blurred lines of breaking laws are overlooked by LEO. IMHO if you were stopped for some reason or another and were transporting a firearm that was rendered incapable of being used you most likely would not run into a issue with that officer. Afterall, in most cases its officers discretion if they feel like charging you with something at that moment. YMMV

This is the NRS I remember reading. Expelling a projectile instead of me saying launching. I personally would have no problem carrying an unloaded firearm with the magazine removed in a lock box with full magazines in the same box in a backpack if the need ever came up. As I said, I have done it twice at the airport as directed by airport instructions. After the baggage person verified and tagged it, I was instructed to take it over to the TSA person still in the unsecured baggage area to have it run through the x-ray machine by hand instead of sending it with the general baggage. I slipped the lock box into the backpack and carried it over to the TSA person. Removed the lock box from the backpack in front of the TSA person told him even though it is obvious it was a firearm he took it and sent it on its way. Both the baggage person and the TSA person knew I had been carrying a firearm in a backpack.
I agree there is nothing like having the nice fuzzy felling of a NRS or something saying carrying in such a manner is good to go. However, a word that is often used is intent. It is obvious by carrying a firearm in the above method the intent is NOT to carry concealed and ready to use in less than a second. It shows the intent to carry the firearm in a very secure, safe and legally way.

gmijackso · Jul 16, 2010

28kfps said:
I agree there is nothing like having the nice fuzzy felling of a NRS or something saying carrying in such a manner is good to go. However, a word that is often used is intent. It is obvious by carrying a firearm in the above method the intent is NOT to carry concealed and ready to use in less than a second. It shows the intent to carry the firearm in a very secure, safe and legally way.

Obviously you're free to do as you feel fit, as is everyone. But to me, the difference in the "fuzzy" feeling or not is the difference in whether there simply lacks NRS allowing AND denying it (such as OC), and there actually being a NRS denying it, as is this case. The part that is being overlooked is that the NRS defining a firearm says DESIGNED. Even in a locked case unloaded and trigger locked, it was still DESIGNED to be a weapon which expels a projectile... therefore is still a firearm. Also, as I noted in previous NRS I quoted, it is also still a pistol and/or revolver, and is still subject to the concealed weapons law. So, in the end, it's a firearm, and a pistol, and possibly a revolver, and is therefore most definitely covered by the NRS I quoted earlier.

Again, everyone should do as they feel comfortable, but to me, caution is the better part of valor, and as Remmy said, I'd hate to be carrying that way on a day I'm stopped by LEO that just found out his wife was doing the mailman.

Remmy · Jul 16, 2010

gmijackso said:
I will note that I've only purchased pistols here in NV, and as such holster it out just like any other pistol you carry openly. If the store isn't ok with that, no need to do business with them. Should also be noted that a long gun, according to NRS, isn't capable of being concealed so you can carry those (guns with a barrel longer than 12") any way you wish (providing there isn't a round in the chamber, but I was speaking concealment-wise).

wow I never even thought of that option to be honest. I do know for a fact that bassPro wont allow it hell they wont even let you walk to the front of the store with it, a manager is called and they escort you to the front. but then again this store is MUCH bigger then your average gun store. next time im in there I will grab ahold of a manager and discuss this. Great way to carry and be completely legal in my opinion when purchasing and taking your new baby home!

gmijackso · Jul 16, 2010

Remmy said:
wow I never even thought of that option to be honest. I do know for a fact that bassPro wont allow it hell they wont even let you walk to the front of the store with it, a manager is called and they escort you to the front. but then again this store is MUCH bigger then your average gun store. next time im in there I will grab ahold of a manager and discuss this. Great way to carry and be completely legal in my opinion when purchasing and taking your new baby home!

Really? That surprises me. I've never purchased from them, but I do understand that they allow OC in the store (or so it's been reported on the forum), just so long as you're not going to the range, I don't know first hand, I don't go there often and when I do it's always on my way home from work, which disallows firearms on the property at all.

28kfps · Jul 16, 2010

gmijackso said:
Obviously you're free to do as you feel fit, as is everyone. But to me, the difference in the "fuzzy" feeling or not is the difference in whether there simply lacks NRS allowing AND denying it (such as OC), and there actually being a NRS denying it, as is this case. The part that is being overlooked is that the NRS defining a firearm says DESIGNED. Even in a locked case unloaded and trigger locked, it was still DESIGNED to be a weapon which expels a projectile... therefore is still a firearm. Also, as I noted in previous NRS I quoted, it is also still a pistol and/or revolver, and is still subject to the concealed weapons law. So, in the end, it's a firearm, and a pistol, and possibly a revolver, and is therefore most definitely covered by the NRS I quoted earlier.

Again, everyone should do as they feel comfortable, but to me, caution is the better part of valor, and as Remmy said, I'd hate to be carrying that way on a day I'm stopped by LEO that just found out his wife was doing the mailman.

I know what I know you feel as you feel. We have beaten the crap out of this subject. Nice debate. Great thoughts and info. Conceder this a handshake may be we will meet up some day. Yep being stopped by the LEO under such condition would be the pits. However, better than getting on an airplane that the good Lord has decided it was the pilot’s time to go. What does that have to do with any part of this? Absolutely nothing.

1245A Defender · Jul 16, 2010

laws dont hafta make sense!

been following you tales of non CPL concealed carry.
they couldnt have possibly meant to cause this crap when they wrote the transport laws.

in calif, if you live in a GFSZ, you cant even walk out to put your locked box unloaded gun in your trunk!!!
if you get it in your trunk, then you can drive thru the Zone.
OR you can walk it thru the zone if you dont live there, as long as your walking directly to a car!
doesnt need to be your car, and you dont need to get in it, just gotta satisfy the letter of the law!!

my advice, to take your gun discretely, without a CPL, is unloaded, in a lock box, in a back pack, and drag it on the ground behind you!!
that way you wont be carrying it upon your person!

and you guys need to stop arguing about the terminoligy, and write some letters to get the laws cleared up.

Really now, with macdonald, you should be able to legally transport your guns,, its 2A time!!!

edit to add!!
illinois has some funky transport laws too!
there is support from the cops, and the courts, that unloaded, in a fanny pack, breifcase, or backpack is just fine!
see this thread
Could an Illinois "fanny pack movement" lead to gun carry reform?

Remmy · Jul 16, 2010

gmijackso said:
Really? That surprises me. I've never purchased from them, but I do understand that they allow OC in the store (or so it's been reported on the forum), just so long as you're not going to the range, I don't know first hand, I don't go there often and when I do it's always on my way home from work, which disallows firearms on the property at all.

yeah they do on both counts, im in there often as its 2 miles from my house and great place to go for deals on fishing gear and anything else really. in my book and some my argue but, any place that allows me to bring my dog, my firearm OC or CC is a good place.

gmijackso · Jul 16, 2010

28kfps said:
I know what I know you feel as you feel. We have beaten the crap out of this subject. Nice debate. Great thoughts and info. Conceder this a handshake may be we will meet up some day. Yep being stopped by the LEO under such condition would be the pits. However, better than getting on an airplane that the good Lord has decided it was the pilot’s time to go. What does that have to do with any part of this? Absolutely nothing.

I just have to say, that the difference in your analogy, is that one thing you can do nothing about (flying/"act of god") and the other you can (doing nothing illegal to warrant arrest).

Felid`Maximus · Jul 16, 2010

gmijackso said:
I will note that I've only purchased pistols here in NV, and as such holster it out just like any other pistol you carry openly. If the store isn't ok with that, no need to do business with them. Should also be noted that a long gun, according to NRS, isn't capable of being concealed so you can carry those (guns with a barrel longer than 12") any way you wish (providing there isn't a round in the chamber, but I was speaking concealment-wise).

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The term "Firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" is only used in reference to the possession of such firearms by juveniles.

In California, their laws say that it is illegal to conceal a firearm capable of being concealed, and long guns are not capable of being concealed by their laws, so you can conceal a long gun in California. However, in Nevada it is illegal to conceal a firearm or any other dangerous or deadly weapon, and the term "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" is not used in NRS 202.350.

It would be a very interesting thing to see if a court might find that definition and use it to exonerate someone who had a concealed rifle in a bag, and I wish that it would be, but I have a feeling they might find it to be a concealed firearm or other dangerous or deadly weapon.

gmijackso · Jul 16, 2010

Felid`Maximus said:
I wouldn't be so sure of that. The term "Firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" is only used in reference to the possession of such firearms by juveniles.

In California, their laws say that it is illegal to conceal a firearm capable of being concealed, and long guns are not capable of being concealed by their laws, so you can conceal a long gun in California. However, in Nevada it is illegal to conceal a firearm or any other dangerous or deadly weapon, and the term "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" is not used in NRS 202.350.

It would be a very interesting thing to see if a court might find that definition and use it to exonerate someone who had a concealed rifle in a bag, and I wish that it would be, but I have a feeling they might find it to be a concealed firearm or other dangerous or deadly weapon.

Interesting... I guess in my mind I drew the parallel between the two automatically, but you're 100% right. NRS 202.350 only regards them as firearm and of course the long gun is a firearm. I too would be interested in the possibility of using what is essentially the NRS definition of a firearm that is capable of being concealed to defend against a charge in that by the NRS own admission (albeit in a different statute) a long gun is incapable of concealment.

redreed · Jul 16, 2010

Not true

Felid`Maximus said:
I wouldn't be so sure of that. The term "Firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" is only used in reference to the possession of such firearms by juveniles.

Not true.

NRS 202.253 gives that definition as a definition of a concealable firearm. It is in no way making reference to juveniles. It refers this term to all NRS statutes from 202.253 to 202.369 inclusive.

28kfps · Jul 16, 2010

gmijackso said:
I just have to say, that the difference in your analogy, is that one thing you can do nothing about (flying/"act of god") and the other you can (doing nothing illegal to warrant arrest).

Wow! I was not trying to make any kind of analogy. Just trying to throw in a little humor that had absolutely nothing to do with the subject. You are correct, an LEO can arrest for even the most obvious legal activity. I personally as most will do my very best to keep myself out of such a situation. I have just as much of a reason as anyone not to be arrested, may be even a little more of a reason than most. An arrest for me even if dropped or dismissed could be detrimental to my 36-year career. As an employment requirement, which I signed up for 36 year ago, I have to report any and all arrest and most traffic tickets. If an LEO who is concern about my open carry asks me for my blue card, I am going to show it to him, even though I am not a Clark County resident. If he asks for my CCW or ID, I am going to show it to him. I understand those that would only offer the LEO what is required by law. I however, as you say cannot afford to push an LEO to an arrest for doing nothing illegal even if later it more than likely would be dismissed.
One of the problems of getting into a subject to such detail is I am sure you as well as I there is personal details that would not be a good idea to share on a blog that would help me understand your views. Details of my background I could share that would help you understand why I personally, and of the opinion anyone else would have no problem carrying a firearm in the manner I suggested previously. May be one day we will meet up over cup of Starbuck Joe, I will buy.

Felid`Maximus · Jul 16, 2010

redreed said:
Not true.

NRS 202.253 gives that definition as a definition of a concealable firearm. It is in no way making reference to juveniles. It refers this term to all NRS statutes from 202.253 to 202.369 inclusive.

While the definition applies to those sections, what I meant was that the the explicit phrase "Firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" is used 4 times in chapter 202. Once in the definition, and three times when in laws concerning the possession of them by minors. http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-202.html

how do you transport a handgun if you do not wish to OC & you are walking?

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