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Thread: Everyone has their line

  1. #1
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    Cool Everyone has their line

    But where is your line? First i'd like to say I hate violence. I never endorse violence and I would be the first to defend a stranger if he is being unjustly beaten up by a large mob. Some of you, if you even remember who I am, might find my views a bit extreme. That is ok.

    I come here today to ask a simple question, because it is very important to the foundations of 2A.

    There are limtless scenario types, but I'll just stick with the simplest. Let's say some law is passed, despite the objections and outcry of pro-2a groups, that ban guns. Part of that bill required local police to go door to door confiscating them, and (Since you guys have lovely registered CW permits or OC permits) they come straight to your door, hungry for your Wilson Combat 1911.

    The next part of the question will seperate the Armchair warriors from the men.
    Are you so passionate about your rights that you are willing, if necessary, to die in defense of them?

    In this case, would you let the cops know somehow that if they attempt to unconstitutionally violate your rights and take your weapons they will be met with extreme force? If they ignored your warning and came anyways, would you resist using force?

    Or would you cower down, comply with the Authority like a drone all the while voicing your complaints.

    This is not some "Will you go down in a blaze of glory fantasy", it's simple a question to all of you individually asking if you have the balls your founding fathers had.

    P.s. a simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

  2. #2
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    My wife asked what I would do if confronted with this situation. I told her it would be she that would have a decision to make. When she asked why it would be her decision, I explained that she would have 2 choices. She could leave and live or stay and load. Answer your question?

  3. #3
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    My wife asked what I would do if confronted with this situation. I told her it would be she that would have a decision to make. When she asked why it would be her decision, I explained that she would have 2 choices. She could leave and live or stay and load. Answer your question?
    While I don't have a wife, a few people I know would be barricading themselves in, me being one of them. Theres only, what, 2-4 million police and military (out of my ass figure), and what, 150 million gun (another OOMA figure)? Kind of a daunting task if you ask me, especially if those involved in the gun grab want to see the sun rise the next day.

    Will everyone fight back? Probably not. Will a lot of people fight back? More then likely. I'll be one of them
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

    Vice President of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, ECU Chapter

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    Cool

    I'd be heart broken if they confiscated my only handgun, my hipoint, because I lost all my other guns in a tragic boating accident a couple months ago.

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    Load up. Head to the hills. G'luck with that.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    There is another choice.

    Your choices are submit or die.

    Resistance does not necessarily have to end in defeat.

    The 2A was meant to give the people a viable means of resistance. Many on this forum are better armed than the local National Guard Armory, and most here are probably a better shot.

    We are a people that refuse tyranny. King George thought he could take away our gund and impose unjust taxes. Didn't happen then, won't happen now.

    Our guns are our liberty teeth. Don't try to extract them, we hate dentists.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    Last edited by Thundar; 07-12-2010 at 02:17 PM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  7. #7
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    I mean with a whopping 208 justified defensive homocides each year you would have to be plain stupid to not buy into carrying a firearm everywhere.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    If such a law were passed and went into effect tomorrow, it would most assuredly mean the second civil war.

    It's rather silly to think you would have to fight alone, especially if you live in a pro-2A state. The odds of states like Texas enforcing such a law are simply nonexistent, especially when they are already passing laws to throw the bird at the fed. With the recent supreme court ruling, it would pretty much be The Brady Bunch vs everyone else. Such a war would be short and decisive for sure.

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    God, I do love this country!

    A quote, Brian keith in the movie Young Guns.
    "Who wants to stay and dance"

    It is not just us that understand a sweeping gun confiscation would be met with force. The government knows it, the military knows it and police know it. I do not think that it will come to that. That having been said, I can assure you that I will still do what is necessary to support and defend the Constitution. I don't believe that a DD214 relieves you of your duties as a patriot. I am also bound by the love for my family to protect them even if it means leaving them.

    Some of these things sound a little extreme but many who read and post here understand perfectly well.

    God bless America DEFENSOR FORTIS

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEFENSOR View Post
    A quote, Brian keith in the movie Young Guns.
    "Who wants to stay and dance"

    It is not just us that understand a sweeping gun confiscation would be met with force. The government knows it, the military knows it and police know it. I do not think that it will come to that. That having been said, I can assure you that I will still do what is necessary to support and defend the Constitution. I don't believe that a DD214 relieves you of your duties as a patriot. I am also bound by the love for my family to protect them even if it means leaving them.

    Some of these things sound a little extreme but many who read and post here understand perfectly well.

    God bless America DEFENSOR FORTIS
    Doubt it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    If such a law were passed and went into effect tomorrow, it would most assuredly mean the second civil war.
    It's rather silly to think you would have to fight alone, especially if you live in a pro-2A state. The odds of states like Texas enforcing such a law are simply nonexistent, especially when they are already passing laws to throw the bird at the fed. With the recent supreme court ruling, it would pretty much be The Brady Bunch vs everyone else. Such a war would be short and decisive for sure.
    What a ludicrious statement. How many gun owners would get cut down by armored assault vehicles to keep their guns? Not many. And those nuts that would lay down their lives would get dis-heartened when snipers, aerial support, and fighting vehicles crush that hypothetical weak opposition. Second Civil War, please.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    The elitist Leftists are panty wetting afraid because they know that gun owners represent the only viable threat to their desire for power and control. And it isn't the gun owner's guns that they are afraid of..... it is the concept of liberty, the independence of spirit, the refusal to kiss ass, the courage to stand up, that the gun represents that they fear.

    Consider the reaction of a Leftist who gets right up in the face of a person openly carrying a gun and begins to shout about how intimidated and scared that gun makes them "feel". Total BS. They are neither "scared" nor "intimidated"... they are enraged that someone is showing them they have the courage and convictions to openly carry a gun and the Leftist knows he has no power to control them.

    Scratch a Leftist elitist and you will find an arrogant control freak convinced they, and they alone, are God's gift to humanity innately possessing the intellect that all "those common people" lack.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    So the OP's premise is
    Let's say some law is passed, despite the objections and outcry of pro-2a groups, that ban guns. Part of that bill required local police to go door to door confiscating them
    .

    Let's look at that a moment. That law, presuming it is a federal law, puts several agencies and their bloated buracracies out of business, as they existed as a bunch of paper-pushers and beancounters, not as field-experienced law enforcement agencies. It needs to replace them with jack-booted thugs (JBTs), which are already in great demand by other buracracies who historically are not known for inter-agency cooperation and resource sharing. The enacting of this law also presumes that there has been some sort of great social upheaval that allows/permits such an obnoxiously obvious violation of the Constitution (2A and 5A are my basic beginning points).

    Yes, we have recently seen other legislation which may or may not eventually be ruled unconstitutional (Obamacare being the most quickly recognized), and the Congress does seem to be more willing to play fast and loose with "deeming" a bill as passed rather than actually voting on it. But what we have not yet seen is the end of the legal wrangling that is in the hopper trying to resolve the questions of "is it legal?" and "can they get away with that?" before much action takes place regarding the enforcement of the legislation.

    Now, if the law the OP proposes was passed at the State level, I offer up the question of "Who really thinks that all 50 (or 57, depending on who you ask how many there are) States would pass the exact same law at -approximately - the same time?"

    It seems like a great fantasy - or nightmare - to contemplate such a situation, but there are just too many prtacticalities to make the proposition more than that.

    As for the practical side of things - post-Katrina we saw LEOs both confiscating firearms and enforcing laws to confiscate firearms, but we saw that they were doing it selectively. They were quite the active bunch when faced with no meaningful opposition (mere vocal resistance) but not quite the same when confronted with a whole neighborhood of armed folks who said "No way!", let alone the solitary homeowner who demanded to be treated "with benign neglect" while holding his shotgun. What are the chances that things have changed so much on their side?

    stay safe.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EG&G Technical Services Employee View Post
    What a ludicrious statement. How many gun owners would get cut down by armored assault vehicles to keep their guns? Not many. And those nuts that would lay down their lives would get dis-heartened when snipers, aerial support, and fighting vehicles crush that hypothetical weak opposition. Second Civil War, please.

    You're spot on, there, Mr. Military History Expert....

    Just a few things I'd like you to explain.

    If a rag-tag band of poorly-armed civilians can't prevail against a super power, then what happened in Afghanistan to the Mongols in the middle ages, or the Brits in the 1800's, or the USSR in the `1980's, or, let's be honest, the US currently?

    What happened to the US in Vietnam?

    The Brits in America in 1776 and 1812?


    The fact is, that in the recent history (the last 500+ years anyway) of military action, incursive forces of large superpowers almost ALWAYS get their asses handed to them when they try to take on indigenous populations.

    All the Predator Drones in the world won't win a war if you don't know where the fresh water sources and hidey-holes are, but the "locals" do...

    Wake up, dude. Stop drinking the kool-aid at your employer's commissary.

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    I am with you on the non-violence. This, in a very round-about way, is why I carry.

    But any basic rights, 2A or otherwise, deserve our defense and defiance if it comes to that. Remember: Our forefathers were traitors to the crown, ex-patriots, even terrorists... at the time.

    I certainly hope that we avoid another bloody revolution and I honestly believe that we will... but if it comes to that I would die to defend those rights as I would any member of my family from harm.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    That's the troll from earlier, I ignored him on purpose.

    However, since I am posting anyway...


    I don't think it would be a fight between citizens and the government. I think it would be a fight between Washington, Washington loyalists and the Brady Bunch vs pretty much everyone else. This even includes at least part, if not most, of the military. This is all thanks to the recent SCOTUS decision. But even barring that, you will still have state militia support from pro-gun states.

    Right now would be a very bad time for the fed to try anything that heavy handed, after all, a lot of states are already rebelling against Washington.

  17. #17
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Post Heller / McDonald, such hypotheticals are meaningless and make us look less than the legal and legislative professionals that we are.

    Mass confiscation of all firearms, instigated either by the federal or state government, would be struck down as unconstitutional.

    The fight has now moved to one of attrition, where the antis will try to nibble away at the types of firearms and ammo that may be possessed and carried and the places where we may carry.

    In response, we need to focus on continuing the streak of legislative and judicial successes we have seen over the last several decades at all levels of government and continue to liberalize our gun laws. We need to make gun ownership a normal and healthy part of a civil society.

    What to do to make this happen?
    --------------------------------------

    - Raise your children to be gun owners!
    - Take a friend or co-worker shooting
    - Open Carry and be a goodwill ambassador for gun rights
    - Join your state gun-rights group
    - Join the NRA
    - Join GOA
    - Work tirelessly to elect only pro-gun representatives at all levels of government


    John

  18. #18
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Let me guess who would ask this question.... Oh yeah. Got it.

    I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident.

  19. #19
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    Yes.

    "Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees"

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by administrator View Post
    Post Heller / McDonald, such hypotheticals are meaningless and make us look less than the legal and legislative professionals that we are.

    Mass confiscation of all firearms, instigated either by the federal or state government, would be struck down as unconstitutional.

    The fight has now moved to one of attrition, where the antis will try to nibble away at the types of firearms and ammo that may be possessed and carried and the places where we may carry.

    In response, we need to focus on continuing the streak of legislative and judicial successes we have seen over the last several decades at all levels of government and continue to liberalize our gun laws. We need to make gun ownership a normal and healthy part of a civil society.

    What to do to make this happen?
    --------------------------------------

    - Raise your children to be gun owners!
    - Take a friend or co-worker shooting
    - Open Carry and be a goodwill ambassador for gun rights
    - Join your state gun-rights group
    - Join the NRA
    - Join GOA
    - Work tirelessly to elect only pro-gun representatives at all levels of government


    John
    Why is a hypothetical question asking each individual on here where he draws his line in the sand a "meaningless" question. After all that's ultimately what 2A is all about.

    "would be struck down as unconstitutional." You don't know that for sure. Do you have a crystal ball? Do you not see that there are forces daily trying to take away your 2A right? There are forces beyond the mere "Bradys" that are a more serious threat., but that's a whole nother topic.

    I agree with what you are saying though about making gun ownership normal. I personally wish it was at a stage where gun ownership and 2A rights were commonplace, because I tire of seeing debates and intense talk about something that I think should already be the norm everywhere.

    I wasn't aware that it was the goal of everyone on this site to be a legal professional. I personally do not care about being a legal professional. It does not take a professional to read "shall not be infringed" and completely understand what that means.

    Some people have diverted attention away from my actual question and have turned it into a "that would never happen" or "it would more likely be this". We could talk hypotheticals and scenarios forever.

  21. #21
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtnScotsman View Post
    Yes.

    "Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees"
    I'm on my knees a lot these days, just not in the manner you mean. That having been said, I agree with you 100%. I did not lose my guns in a boating accident. They are right here with me. "COME AND TAKE IT" [THEM], as the Texicans said to the Mexican army at Gonzales. Anyone that would take this route for real, is a coward and not willing to take a stand that is righteous to the Constitution. I certainly trust and hope that the boating accident statement was meant as humor only.

  22. #22
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolffe View Post
    I wasn't aware that it was the goal of everyone on this site to be a legal professional. I personally do not care about being a legal professional. It does not take a professional to read "shall not be infringed" and completely understand what that means.
    UH....John is a "legal professional", and probably a damned sight better one than our current Pres. I agree that when he said it would be struck down that he maybe should have said it should be struck down. You never know these days what the folks in black will do.
    Last edited by rodbender; 07-12-2010 at 10:31 PM.

  23. #23
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    I am not comfortable with answering a question about such a drastic situation on an open forum asked by a person so new to the forum. I will say I am willing to defend myself if need be.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Its illogical to assume the whole US military would obey an unconstitutional order to disarm our citizens. I know for a FACT we would have our own M1A tank and Specter Gunship. It will never happen flat out because the socialists know we would have massive amounts of hardware too, not just our pistols and rifles.

  25. #25
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    Its illogical to assume the whole US military would obey an unconstitutional order to disarm our citizens. I know for a FACT we would have our own M1A tank and Specter Gunship. It will never happen flat out because the socialists know we would have massive amounts of hardware too, not just our pistols and rifles.
    I don't thonk that it is the military that we would need to be concerned with, rather the BATFE, FBI, and the rest of the alphabet soup guys, oh yeah, and the locals. That's why I always mention www.oathkeepers.org when I engage in conversation with any LEO for any reason.

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