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Thread: Stopped At Gun Point

  1. #1
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    Angry Stopped At Gun Point

    At 4am police and sheriffs where at my house and demanding answers, this was provoked because a friend of mine was sitting on the porch having a conversation with my brother in-law. Cops and Sheriffs stopped because he had a gun on his side in a holster visible. The Friend also has a conceal carry license but at 4am in my neighborhood it’s better to open carry (which is legal in Ohio) then to conceal it. It stops criminals from trying to rob you. Later at 6pm that same day ZPD stopped him again on his way home from our house with guns drawn. He immediately put his hands up while they continued to hold him at gun point, they then took his weapon out of his holster and took his wallet out of his pocket without his permission. They then Told him if he has a conceal carry license he should use it rather than open carrying. They were not responding to any calls but rather taking the law into their own hands to warn are citizens that the open carry law doesn't mean you can open carry because it make them nervous.

    Since when is following the law allow officers to brandish there weapons and hold you at gun point?
    Last edited by drewsifer; 07-12-2010 at 10:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    Last time I checked.....everything they did would be considered illegal....but then I dont know jack about that kinda stuff....lol, I say time for a suit.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    I've got two words for him:

    VOICE RECORDER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    I've got two words for him:

    VOICE RECORDER
    Absolutely!!!!
    Last edited by w8new; 07-13-2010 at 04:01 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    What will you do about this?

    There are different levels of action that you can take to address this issue.

    Level 1 - FOIA them - Cops hate paperwork and get nervous when their actions are reviewed by superiors and lawyers. When you make an official request for information (Not sure of the exact laws in Ohio, but federal is called FOIA -Freedom of Information Act)

    Put your version of events in the first section of the request called background. That way others are aware of what happened. It also helps in documenting the fact that they were aware of the first incident. A twofer! Pain in the ass for them and prepping the battlefield for a lawsuit.

    Level 2 - A formal complaint to the police department - This sometimes works in police organizations that really care about the quality of their officers. In other organizations it is a waste of time.

    Level 3 - Complaint to city and/or state politicians. Local level is usually more effective.

    Level 4 Lawsuit - Federal and state are often possible. This really gets their attention, but is often costly and at the local level the judge often bends over backwards to support local police.

    Do Something about this or it will continue to happen. Cops drawing guns can lead to lots of bad things happening, don't wait long.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  6. #6
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    Good O'l Zanesville Ohio ZPD AND Muskingum County Sheriffs
    Last edited by drewsifer; 07-14-2010 at 02:55 PM.

  7. #7
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    Zanesville, Ohio

    My friend and my brother in-law went to the police station two days ago and the friend filed a misconduct complaint on the officers and when he left was stopped agian and this time wanted to know whos house it was and my brother in-laws name and wanted to know why they open carried. This time not at gun point but what I figure they are trying to do is get information on my brother in-law to discredit him as a witness if this thing goes to court. On another note the Chief of police told them that his officers are not required to give them there names or badge numbers. If that is the case then why by law are they required to wear badges and name badges, are they not accountable for there actions?
    I just don't get where they think it is okay to brandish there weapons when ever they feel like it? I mean when I was in the Army I was told that if I even pointed the weapon at someone it gave them grounds to shoot me. I am glad I live in a state where officers can just hold you at gun point for no reason I feel really safe!!!!!!!!

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    There was a photo hear depicting a officer as a Nazi ss officer but i removed it as requested but what I was trying to get at is This is very much the same thing being stopped and asked your name and address and do you have a conceal carry permit is allot like being asked to see your papers why do i have to be stopped by police for open carrying? am I breaking the law? Being stopped for obeying the law is a justice as being random selected to be interegated
    Last edited by drewsifer; 07-14-2010 at 05:48 PM.

  9. #9
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    A few things:

    - Delete the link to the pic. It is inappropriate.

    - We are hearing this second-hand. Have your friend join this forum so we can hear his version of the events first-hand.

    - As mentioned by others, your friend should have been wearing a voice recorder. Why was he OC'ing without one?

    - Follow Thundar's advice.

    - Perhaps we need an open carry walk in Zanesville.

  10. #10
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    My friend and brother in-law are not memebers on this form and I have requested that they both write there experiences rather then I. But the friend doesnt have a computer and dont want to put anything on this till it gets settled in court and as for my brother in-law he will be on here soon!

  11. #11
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9uq5mMRG6A
    just 25 miles away from where I live

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewsifer View Post
    There was a photo hear depicting a officer as a Nazi ss officer but i removed it as requested but what I was trying to get at is This is very much the same thing being stopped and asked your name and address and do you have a conceal carry permit is allot like being asked to see your papers why do i have to be stopped by police for open carrying? am I breaking the law? Being stopped for obeying the law is a justice as being random selected to be interegated
    Believe me, I understand what you're saying. None-the-less, we do our cause a great disservice by equating this to Nazism. Let's not lower ourselves to using the same tactics commonly used by Progressives and Marxists.
    Last edited by Ohio Patriot; 07-14-2010 at 07:45 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewsifer View Post
    and dont want to put anything on this till it gets settled in court
    If he believes this will go to court, then neither of you should be posting any details of what happened on a message board.

    The reality, however, is that a judgment against illegal detainment is rare. Especially if it was not recorded. So if he is doubtful this will go to court, posting details is probably not a problem. The irony is that his chances of winning in court would be much better had he been arrested for the mere act of open carrying.

    For now, the objective should be to educate Zanesville LE to minimize the chance of this occurring again. Hence he should not be looking for an appology... he should demand proof that Zanesville LEOs will be educated on the legality of open carry.
    Last edited by Ohio Patriot; 07-15-2010 at 10:16 PM.

  14. #14
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    Well just got updated the police filled no reports and when they tried to get badge numbers they where covered, Don't think any of this is going to court now, no proof to go off of. I would think that a officer would have to file some kind of paper work out when they draw there weapon but i guess not here.
    LE in this town is like a damn t.v. show we regularly have LE arrested for drug sales and other illegal activities, When I was younger I was place in the back of a cruiser with my hands cuffed my friend was thrown on top of me and we got one hell of a beating! nothing ever got to court and everything got covered up real quick when my father went down to file a report. These things happen on a regular bases here in Zanesville. I think that it is just time to move really!

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewsifer View Post
    Well just got updated the police filled no reports and when they tried to get badge numbers they where covered, Don't think any of this is going to court now, no proof to go off of. I would think that a officer would have to file some kind of paper work out when they draw there weapon but i guess not here.
    LE in this town is like a damn t.v. show we regularly have LE arrested for drug sales and other illegal activities, When I was younger I was place in the back of a cruiser with my hands cuffed my friend was thrown on top of me and we got one hell of a beating! nothing ever got to court and everything got covered up real quick when my father went down to file a report. These things happen on a regular bases here in Zanesville. I think that it is just time to move really!
    Interesting story - no substantiation/confirmation and badge numbers covered?

    How were badge numbers covered?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    I've got two words for him:

    VOICE RECORDER
    I agree, but with police acting in such a hostile manner as these did, reaching into your pocket to turn it on might cause you to quickly become ill with "lead poisoning" from the LEO's drawn firearms.


    (I do think voice recorders are indeed a useful tool for OC, but be careful when trying to using them!)
    Just a thought.
    Last edited by Sig229; 07-18-2010 at 07:10 AM.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    I agree, but with police acting in such a hostile manner as these did, reaching into your pocket to turn it on .....
    It should be turned on as soon as you put on the gun. That's like carrying am unloaded gun. It wont do you much good when you actually need it. Rechargeable AAA batteries in mine give me 40 - 50 hours of recording time. If my gun is OC, and I am leaving my property, the recorder is on.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  18. #18
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    which branch of the S.S. were the police with?

  19. #19
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    I agree, but with police acting in such a hostile manner as these did, reaching into your pocket to turn it on might cause you to quickly become ill with "lead poisoning" from the LEO's drawn firearms.


    (I do think voice recorders are indeed a useful tool for OC, but be careful when trying to using them!)
    Just a thought.
    As soon as I get a little extra money, I'm going to buy a watch with a voice recorder in it. That way, it's even less obvious that they're being recorded. In Ohio, you can record any conversation to which you are a party, without permission or the knowledge of others. That'll give me two voice recorders.

    I may not be able to get the cop who misbehaves with me, but I can help out the next guy. It looks bad when you can prove that somebody lied in a previous official document. I'd be more than happy to pass along any evidence I have, and reports and personnel records are discoverable in civil actions.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    As soon as I get a little extra money, I'm going to buy a watch with a voice recorder in it. That way, it's even less obvious that they're being recorded. In Ohio, you can record any conversation to which you are a party, without permission or the knowledge of others. That'll give me two voice recorders.

    .
    That sounds like a great little watch!
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  21. #21
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    Wink

    I agree with Ohio Patriot....I say we have an OC walk there. So we can as a hole education the local LEO's that it is a legal activity. Safety in numbers.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    That sounds like a great little watch!
    Do a Google search for "watch" and "voice recorder" and you'll find a ton of them.

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    I hope he at least had the common sense to lift prints from his gun, and wallet.
    Then they would have to explain how their fingers came in contact with private property,
    when there is no paperwork they ever met with the plaintiff.
    Audio recordings, video, and fingerprints go a long way to proving something is amiss with
    all the denials. DNA needs to get cheaper for the rest of us to use against the criminals.

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    Time for a OC party in Zaney ville?

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSlack7851 View Post
    Time for a OC party in Zaney ville?
    Sounds good to me!
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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