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talking to police - hypothetical question
- Thread starter xenophon
- Start date
Dreamer
Regular Member
The problem with actually following the law and exercising your RIGHTS in a state that is not a stop an identify state like WI (or where I live, NC) is that there is an increasing trend for LEOs to just arrest you for "contempt of cop", under the color of "resisting arrest" or "disturbing the peace", and then let the courts sort if out.
False arrests like this are usually thrown out by the courts, but it still takes a large chunk of time and money out of your pocket, so even when the charges are dropped by the court, you STILL get punished.
This trend toward punishment for "contempt of cop" is a DANGEROUS trend, and the ONLY way it's going to stop is through an equally active and increased frequency of retaliatory Federal Civil Rights lawsuits against such LEOs. If they are hit in their wallets, and sanctioned by the Feds, perhaps they will STOP behaving like schoolyard bullies and back-alley thugs, and start acting like "peace officers" again...
Through training programs for state and local LEAs sponsored by DOJ and DHS, the average officer is now being trained (by the Feds) that the public is their most dangerous enemy. They are being trained that if you have a Gadsden sticker on your car, or if you reference the Constitution, or your "rights" or the "law" in police interactions, that you could be a "domestic terrorist", and you're possibly one of those "nutjob militia wackos that wants to kill cops and blow up the government".
So it's no wonder LEOs are getting a iittle cranky these days when people stand on their rights and refuse to comply with unlawful demands, or stand up to illegal bullying under color of law. They are being TRAINED that anyone who does this is a terrorist, and wants to kill cops.
The problem starts at the TOP. Until we can get the Feds to stop spreading these lies, disinformation and FUD to state and local police forces, this situation will get worse and worse.
We need to work to take Politics OUT of law enforcement. And that needs to start at the TOP--in Washington DC...
False arrests like this are usually thrown out by the courts, but it still takes a large chunk of time and money out of your pocket, so even when the charges are dropped by the court, you STILL get punished.
This trend toward punishment for "contempt of cop" is a DANGEROUS trend, and the ONLY way it's going to stop is through an equally active and increased frequency of retaliatory Federal Civil Rights lawsuits against such LEOs. If they are hit in their wallets, and sanctioned by the Feds, perhaps they will STOP behaving like schoolyard bullies and back-alley thugs, and start acting like "peace officers" again...
Through training programs for state and local LEAs sponsored by DOJ and DHS, the average officer is now being trained (by the Feds) that the public is their most dangerous enemy. They are being trained that if you have a Gadsden sticker on your car, or if you reference the Constitution, or your "rights" or the "law" in police interactions, that you could be a "domestic terrorist", and you're possibly one of those "nutjob militia wackos that wants to kill cops and blow up the government".
So it's no wonder LEOs are getting a iittle cranky these days when people stand on their rights and refuse to comply with unlawful demands, or stand up to illegal bullying under color of law. They are being TRAINED that anyone who does this is a terrorist, and wants to kill cops.
The problem starts at the TOP. Until we can get the Feds to stop spreading these lies, disinformation and FUD to state and local police forces, this situation will get worse and worse.
We need to work to take Politics OUT of law enforcement. And that needs to start at the TOP--in Washington DC...
Doug Huffman
Banned
See Wisconsin Statutes § 968.24 Temporary questioning without arrest.
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0968.pdf
hardballer
Regular Member
This is an interesting thread. I had the experience that gives most of us an adrenalin rush, just last night. I took my wife out yesterday for an afternoon in LaCrosse (for those who don't know, she's been sick for the better part of the last 3 years). It is difficult to go anywhere because she is weak and there are other difficulties as well. So this was fun till the last few hours when it became to much and we headed for home.
Half way home, she got a speck of something in her eye and we pulled into Galesville; More light and no traffic, to the convenience store with the idea of finding some water to wash it out. Store closed, no water. We made do with some water from the ice chest and a paper towel under the convenience store lights. This worked for Laurra but on the way out of town, just as I was pulling onto the highway, those iconic flashing red and blue lights lit up the night and a spotlight blinded me.
The officer came to the window and introduced himself and asked if my wife was OK. (She had a wet cloth over her eye, I can see what it might have looked like. Bar closing, woman covering eye, we suspect there may have been a cell phone call in Galesville too, because we were outside the truck pouring water over her eye and she was bent over a bit in the closed convenience store parking lot. It was 1:15am too.)
So, anyway, the deputy asked where we were coming from. I told him LaCrosse, for a night out and a little shopping. (at this point he hit his call button to bring up backup.) He looked at Laurra and asked her if she was OK, twice. Actually very concerned and in a kind and caring way. He then asked what I was doing in Galesville. At this point I wanted to know why we were stopped and why my being in Galesville was important. He said my headlight was out. Dang it! Got me there. Sure enough, my right headlight was out.
I asked him why 'what I was doing in Galesville' was so important. He did not answer. I was a little stern and My wife, bless her sweetness, piped up and explained the medical stop to get the speck out of her eye and that she and I were both a little tired and ornery from a long day. At this point I asked if I could exit the vehicle and the officer said yes. Apparently he was satisfied that I had not harmed my wife or was a threat. Laurra has a really disarming manner.
I looked at the light and let him know I would get right on that first thing tomorrow. At this point he noticed my gun belt with two stainless steel mags, a flashlight, and an empty holster. He was calm and asked if I was armed, I replied I was and he asked where the gun was. Just about then, a second and third cruiser went by on the opposite side of the highway and began making a turn. I said in a case, chamber cleared mag beside it. Right about then, he called off the back up.
It was at this point that I was a bit taken aback. He said, so your an 'Open Carrier"? I said yes I am. He never mentioned the gun again but smiled and asked if I had ever had any negative responses from LEO, any harassment etc. I responded in the negative with the exception of Woodman's from where we just had come and made it clear even that had nothing to do with LEOs and that it had been settled in a OC friendly way in short order. He smiled and said it is kind of a scary deal to some folks to see the gun.
He then told me he was a Training Officer for the dept. and had spoken to his men about OC and that it was not a reason to jump to conclusions or to arrest a person as it was legal in the state of Wisconsin. (I wish I had recorded this but completely forgot.) I was still a bit nervous but we talked at some length about the law and he agreed that it wasn't the ones carrying openly, the law abiding citizen, that you have to worry about. He teaches same.
All in all, we had a great conversation, I was wearing my Wisconsin Carry T-Shirt and he asked about WI Carry, I told him about that and OC.org. as well as my blog THE RIGHT SITE. He wrote a warning, and came around and said good bye to my wife and the conversation continued for a bit and ended with my wife relating the story about the fellow in Spokane Washington who was beaten to death with a frozen tuna and how you now need a license to carry a tuna in Spokane now because of that tragic incident. We all had a good laugh at that one; my wife and I told him to be safe, and we went on our way. This is a good guy.
It should be noted here that my wife was instrumental in this being a 'friendly' encounter. I was ornery with him and coming from me, it can be intimidating. She defused my orneriness and turned the stop into a consensual, friendly, interactive communication as opposed to something more costly.
It bothered me that he was asking my whereabouts without a reason. Looking back on it now, he may have had a very good reason, one my wife and I support 100%. Abuse of any kind is a no go with us whether it be animal, wife or child. We did notice a husband being abused at Woodman's this very evening, on his way out the door, he implored his wife to please wait till they got outside to yell at him. Looking back at the checkout, we all shared a smile and chuckle.
This LEO encounter was all good for us.
Half way home, she got a speck of something in her eye and we pulled into Galesville; More light and no traffic, to the convenience store with the idea of finding some water to wash it out. Store closed, no water. We made do with some water from the ice chest and a paper towel under the convenience store lights. This worked for Laurra but on the way out of town, just as I was pulling onto the highway, those iconic flashing red and blue lights lit up the night and a spotlight blinded me.
The officer came to the window and introduced himself and asked if my wife was OK. (She had a wet cloth over her eye, I can see what it might have looked like. Bar closing, woman covering eye, we suspect there may have been a cell phone call in Galesville too, because we were outside the truck pouring water over her eye and she was bent over a bit in the closed convenience store parking lot. It was 1:15am too.)
So, anyway, the deputy asked where we were coming from. I told him LaCrosse, for a night out and a little shopping. (at this point he hit his call button to bring up backup.) He looked at Laurra and asked her if she was OK, twice. Actually very concerned and in a kind and caring way. He then asked what I was doing in Galesville. At this point I wanted to know why we were stopped and why my being in Galesville was important. He said my headlight was out. Dang it! Got me there. Sure enough, my right headlight was out.
I asked him why 'what I was doing in Galesville' was so important. He did not answer. I was a little stern and My wife, bless her sweetness, piped up and explained the medical stop to get the speck out of her eye and that she and I were both a little tired and ornery from a long day. At this point I asked if I could exit the vehicle and the officer said yes. Apparently he was satisfied that I had not harmed my wife or was a threat. Laurra has a really disarming manner.
I looked at the light and let him know I would get right on that first thing tomorrow. At this point he noticed my gun belt with two stainless steel mags, a flashlight, and an empty holster. He was calm and asked if I was armed, I replied I was and he asked where the gun was. Just about then, a second and third cruiser went by on the opposite side of the highway and began making a turn. I said in a case, chamber cleared mag beside it. Right about then, he called off the back up.
It was at this point that I was a bit taken aback. He said, so your an 'Open Carrier"? I said yes I am. He never mentioned the gun again but smiled and asked if I had ever had any negative responses from LEO, any harassment etc. I responded in the negative with the exception of Woodman's from where we just had come and made it clear even that had nothing to do with LEOs and that it had been settled in a OC friendly way in short order. He smiled and said it is kind of a scary deal to some folks to see the gun.
He then told me he was a Training Officer for the dept. and had spoken to his men about OC and that it was not a reason to jump to conclusions or to arrest a person as it was legal in the state of Wisconsin. (I wish I had recorded this but completely forgot.) I was still a bit nervous but we talked at some length about the law and he agreed that it wasn't the ones carrying openly, the law abiding citizen, that you have to worry about. He teaches same.
All in all, we had a great conversation, I was wearing my Wisconsin Carry T-Shirt and he asked about WI Carry, I told him about that and OC.org. as well as my blog THE RIGHT SITE. He wrote a warning, and came around and said good bye to my wife and the conversation continued for a bit and ended with my wife relating the story about the fellow in Spokane Washington who was beaten to death with a frozen tuna and how you now need a license to carry a tuna in Spokane now because of that tragic incident. We all had a good laugh at that one; my wife and I told him to be safe, and we went on our way. This is a good guy.
It should be noted here that my wife was instrumental in this being a 'friendly' encounter. I was ornery with him and coming from me, it can be intimidating. She defused my orneriness and turned the stop into a consensual, friendly, interactive communication as opposed to something more costly.
It bothered me that he was asking my whereabouts without a reason. Looking back on it now, he may have had a very good reason, one my wife and I support 100%. Abuse of any kind is a no go with us whether it be animal, wife or child. We did notice a husband being abused at Woodman's this very evening, on his way out the door, he implored his wife to please wait till they got outside to yell at him. Looking back at the checkout, we all shared a smile and chuckle.
This LEO encounter was all good for us.
AaronS
Regular Member
It's funny how a good woman can bring us back to a better state of mind. My wife is very good at it as well...
hardballer
Regular Member
M
McX
Guest
i may get blasted, but; drivers, and shop card, anything after that besides pleasant conversation. s.t.f.u. next card i peroduce is my wisconsin carry card. here's a phone call officer- it's for you!
added on edit; if i cooperate to a degree, and it goes south, the cop can make the call, or his superior will get the call tomorrow. i ain't playing. if i got a grocery bag in my hand, i'm not shooting up the place. placate the sheep- do you police job, but then in abscense of malice- that's it. especially if i open with; i am an open carrier and mean you no harm.
added on edit; if i cooperate to a degree, and it goes south, the cop can make the call, or his superior will get the call tomorrow. i ain't playing. if i got a grocery bag in my hand, i'm not shooting up the place. placate the sheep- do you police job, but then in abscense of malice- that's it. especially if i open with; i am an open carrier and mean you no harm.
Last edited:
xenophon
Regular Member
Got back from being out of town, and looks like I missed a few good gems in here while gone. Good stuff. I agree that sometimes it's a good idea to shoot the **** with the officer if he seems like a good guy. I don't want to make their job more difficult or give them a hard time, but at the same time, I have to lookout for my own too.
I live on a main road, and I'm going to start cutting my grass while I open carry. I see police cruisers pass by all the time, so I just wanted to be prepared for when the eventually stop. This is Milwaukee county after all
I live on a main road, and I'm going to start cutting my grass while I open carry. I see police cruisers pass by all the time, so I just wanted to be prepared for when the eventually stop. This is Milwaukee county after all
xenophon
Regular Member
Hindsight is so 20/20 :/ At least your experience is helping others and will in future.
hardballer
Regular Member
Update:
I should say here that I live in a rural area. I am surrounded by rural counties. We have a whole different deal going on here than say, Milwaukee, Green Bay or thank God Madison. I even stopped to check on a Highway cop in a rest area once last winter. It is different here than there. So I just want to say that I don't necessarily disagree with any one's methods here. This is just my experience and in no way is intended as a blue print.
Just wanted to make it clear. I understand that situations define actions.
I should say here that I live in a rural area. I am surrounded by rural counties. We have a whole different deal going on here than say, Milwaukee, Green Bay or thank God Madison. I even stopped to check on a Highway cop in a rest area once last winter. It is different here than there. So I just want to say that I don't necessarily disagree with any one's methods here. This is just my experience and in no way is intended as a blue print.
Just wanted to make it clear. I understand that situations define actions.
Doug Huffman
Banned
My opinion is that principles define principled actions. "Situations defin[ing] actions" is 'situational ethics' in action.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_ethics
Sometimes other Christian moral principles can be cast aside in certain situations if love is best served.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_ethics
Sometimes other Christian moral principles can be cast aside in certain situations if love is best served.
J.Gleason
Banned
If you talk to cops you deserve what you get.
Don't Talk To Cops Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Don't Talk To Cops Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE
The Right Way To handle A Police Stop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk
The Wrong Way To Handle A Police Stop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCe6nQUX5c
Traffic Stop/ Know Your Rights TV EP.4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrFvpMgL9EE
How To Refuse A Police Search
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyokKFIecIo
How do I Keep Police From Searching My Car?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpaNhfOyvAQ
Busted: The Citizen's Guide To Surviving Police Encounters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA
How To Act If You Are Stopped By The Police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShMDT0NmPms
Fork In The Wisconsin Gun Law / Transportation Of Fire Arms by Doug Huffman
http://www.vimeo.com/6115265
JPFO Video / No Guns for Negroes download page
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ngn-download-view.htm
JPFO Video / 2A For the USA download page
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/2a-today-download.htm
Here are some video's that actually tell the truth when it comes to Bull%hit Gun Control Laws.
Bull sh#t on Gun Laws Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCXtfR0_roE
Bull sh#t on Gun Laws Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtqufzEFCzw
Bull sh#t on Gun Laws Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoIKlO20RqM
Anti Gun Politicians get OWNED!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
Don't Talk To Cops Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Don't Talk To Cops Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE
The Right Way To handle A Police Stop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk
The Wrong Way To Handle A Police Stop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCe6nQUX5c
Traffic Stop/ Know Your Rights TV EP.4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrFvpMgL9EE
How To Refuse A Police Search
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyokKFIecIo
How do I Keep Police From Searching My Car?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpaNhfOyvAQ
Busted: The Citizen's Guide To Surviving Police Encounters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA
How To Act If You Are Stopped By The Police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShMDT0NmPms
Fork In The Wisconsin Gun Law / Transportation Of Fire Arms by Doug Huffman
http://www.vimeo.com/6115265
JPFO Video / No Guns for Negroes download page
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ngn-download-view.htm
JPFO Video / 2A For the USA download page
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/2a-today-download.htm
Here are some video's that actually tell the truth when it comes to Bull%hit Gun Control Laws.
Bull sh#t on Gun Laws Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCXtfR0_roE
Bull sh#t on Gun Laws Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtqufzEFCzw
Bull sh#t on Gun Laws Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoIKlO20RqM
Anti Gun Politicians get OWNED!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
hardballer
Regular Member
No argument there. I guess I like living dangerously.