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Underage after 29th?

Snakemathis

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
107
Location
Prescott Valley, Arizona, USA
Let me start off by saying that I do not in any way condone the actions to which I speak nor do I recommend anyone do so themselves. It is an entirely personal decision and I wish for my choice to be respected. That being said, I have a problem with places that are no firearms (join the club right?) and attempt to avoid them as much as possible. However, that is not always possible as most of you know. I often concealed carry into these places for my own protection. As of July 29th a permit will no longer be required for concealed carry so long as you are over 21. I am not over 21. Now I know I will still be able to be trespassed, but what will the charges be for concealing under the age of 21? As I stated before, I do not advise anyone to partake in this behavior, I do however, and would like to know what charges I could be faced with if caught after the 29th. Thanks in advance.
 

AZkopper

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
675
Location
Prescott, Arizona, USA
You will be arrested for misdemeanor Weapons Misconduct (ARS 13-3102A2). It will be a Class 3 Misdemeanor, punishable by up to 30 days in jail.
 
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me812

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
216
Location
federally occupied Arizona
You will be arrested for misdemeanor Weapons Misconduct (ARS 13-3102A2). It will be a Class 3 Misdemeanor, punishable by up to 30 days in jail.

CCW without a permit is a misdemeanor which does not disturb the peace. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that, while police have the option of arresting people for those types of offenses, people were not normally arrested, just cited and released.
 

mFonz77

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Sierra Vista, AZ
You will be arrested for misdemeanor Weapons Misconduct (ARS 13-3102A2). It will be a Class 3 Misdemeanor, punishable by up to 30 days in jail.

CCW without a permit is a misdemeanor which does not disturb the peace. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that, while police have the option of arresting people for those types of offenses, people were not normally arrested, just cited and released.

CCW without a permit will no longer be a crime, is the point. However, you must be 21 to CCW without a permit. I beleive that would be misdemeanor weapons misconduct.
 

AZkopper

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
675
Location
Prescott, Arizona, USA
You will be arrested for misdemeanor Weapons Misconduct (ARS 13-3102A2). It will be a Class 3 Misdemeanor, punishable by up to 30 days in jail.

CCW without a permit is a misdemeanor which does not disturb the peace. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that, while police have the option of arresting people for those types of offenses, people were not normally arrested, just cited and released.

Whether you are physically arrested or cited and released, it will still be deemed an arrest, and you will go to court as a defendant in a misdemeanor crime case. If convicted, it is punishable by fine, or up to 30 days in jail, or a combination of both.

Bottom line, concealed carry is a priviledge, not a right (see various state constitutions and legal decisions from the 19th century onward). AZ has seen fit to legislate it to a near right, but there are restrictions (primarily the duty to inform and the age requirement.
 

wrightme

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Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
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Thoreau

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
315
Location
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
primarily the duty to inform and the age requirement.

Just a nitpick, but we don't really have a 'duty to inform' but in reality it's simply a requirement not to lie to an officer. It's always been that way, and we have no duty to tell an officer we are armed unless they ask. This applies now, and after the 29th.

To the OP, I hate to be the armchair jackass, but I'm curious as to what places you think it's "not always possible' to disarm before entering, or simply not enter at all? I have a hard time coming up with any such situations off the top of my head.
 
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paintsnow

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
132
Location
Las Vegas
Just a nitpick, but we don't really have a 'duty to inform' but in reality it's simply a requirement not to lie to an officer. It's always been that way, and we have no duty to tell an officer we are armed unless they ask. This applies now, and after the 29th.

To the OP, I hate to be the armchair jackass, but I'm curious as to what places you think it's "not always possible' to disarm before entering, or simply not enter at all? I have a hard time coming up with any such situations off the top of my head.


Just off the top of my head, under 21, possibly a student.

How about college classes?
 

Thoreau

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
315
Location
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
That's fine and dandy, except it's illegal to be carrying concealed for two reasons. First of course is, under 21 as wrightme pointed out. Second is that it's illegal to carry on a college campus even with a permit. This isn't Colorado. Neither of these realities will change on the 29th either.

That said, that is still a personal CHOICE to go to such places. Nobody forces a person to attend a certain university ni a certain state.

I don't much like paying my taxes, but I still do because that is the law.
 
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paintsnow

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
132
Location
Las Vegas
That's fine and dandy, except it's illegal to be carrying concealed for two reasons. First of course is, under 21 as wrightme pointed out. Second is that it's illegal to carry on a college campus even with a permit. This isn't Colorado. Neither of these realities will change on the 29th either.

That said, that is still a personal CHOICE to go to such places. Nobody forces a person to attend a certain university ni a certain state.

I don't much like paying my taxes, but I still do because that is the law.

Just playing devils advocate here, but even if it was Colorado, im pretty sure that since he is under 21, he cannot carry on campus there either. But either way, maybe he cannot afford out of state tuition and the move to Colorado?

The way i see this question is similar to somebody asking, "What happens get caught shoplifting?"
Some people will think its a horrible idea. Sure you have the chance of getting away with it, and nothing happening. If you get caught, you know there will be consequences, and you are merely asking what they are. Now to a professional criminal, it might be a great idea due to the simplicity of it, and the low chance of getting caught, or being actively pursued compared to say, hacking the CIA's computers. Most people will never do it, criminals wont think twice, and then there is the person stealing food in order to stay alive.

I agree that it is a personal choice to break the law.
 

Snakemathis

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
107
Location
Prescott Valley, Arizona, USA
Its particularly a place of employment, its not posted and I have not been told not to carry at all, I just prefer it not being seen. And sorry, this was never intended to start a debate, I just wanted to know how the punishment would change after the 29th. And I understand that it is a privellage to conceal, but a right to carry. So if I am forced out of open carry, shouldnt I then be allowed to concealed carry as opposed to giving up my right to self defense? Just doesnt really seem like its much of a "right" if I cant exercise it everywhere. Anywhom, thanks for the replies.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Its particularly a place of employment, its not posted and I have not been told not to carry at all, I just prefer it not being seen. And sorry, this was never intended to start a debate, I just wanted to know how the punishment would change after the 29th. And I understand that it is a privellage to conceal, but a right to carry. So if I am forced out of open carry, shouldnt I then be allowed to concealed carry as opposed to giving up my right to self defense? Just doesnt really seem like its much of a "right" if I cant exercise it everywhere. Anywhom, thanks for the replies.

Of course you should be allowed. But many states deny this.
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
Its particularly a place of employment, its not posted and I have not been told not to carry at all, I just prefer it not being seen. And sorry, this was never intended to start a debate, I just wanted to know how the punishment would change after the 29th. And I understand that it is a privellage to conceal, but a right to carry. So if I am forced out of open carry, shouldnt I then be allowed to concealed carry as opposed to giving up my right to self defense? Just doesnt really seem like its much of a "right" if I cant exercise it everywhere. Anywhom, thanks for the replies.

You won't get many to argue against you being allowed to carry, how, when, and where you please here.
 

AZkopper

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
675
Location
Prescott, Arizona, USA
Your right to bear arms does not trump your employers rights to regulate how his property is used. You also have a right to choose a different employer, if it is a problem for you.
 

paintsnow

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
132
Location
Las Vegas
And while you can purchase, own and open carry a firearm at 18 (Purchase from private party) you still cannot conceal it yet. Doesn't make sense, i know, but thats the law. Just because you feel that it is your right to self defense, and since you cannot OC, CC is the only way to not give up that right, doesn't mean the police cannot charge you with breaking the law. I dont agree with the law, but thats what it is.

Im sure by now you know that if you get caught concealing while under the age of 21, you can get charged with a misdemeanor. Its still at the officers discretion, but most likely, they will charge you. If its concealed, then its concealed though. Its all your choice, as long as your aware that it is against the law, which you clearly are. Rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6 fits pretty well here :)
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
IF YOU GET CAUGHT, you will be arrested for misdemeanor Weapons Misconduct (ARS 13-3102A2). It will be a Class 3 Misdemeanor, punishable by up to 30 days in jail.

There, fixed it.

I've been carrying concealed with no permit ever since I let my permit expire. That includes today.

It's a risk I take to exercise my Rights under a tyrannical regime that doesn't recognize them. Where I live, it's considered a Felony, and not a small one. Should you do the same? Guess it depends on how easy it is for you to pretend that being 'law abiding' is a good thing... For me, it's a moral obligation. If I do not defy evil, I am supporting it. Being the kind of person who hides behind 'law abiding citizen' is something my moral convictions just won't let me live with.

For posting this; Am I a fool, or do they clank when I walk? Who cares? It's not about ego or being a show off. It's about the difference between a citizen and a slave.

I won't advise anyone to do as I do, but I have a lot more respect for those who do. Playing along with tyrants is nothing to be proud of, and is certainly no badge of honor or morality.

Besides, they'd have to search you to find it, right? If you conduct yourself in an otherwise lawful manner, no such cause arises. If they find your weapon while conducting an illegal search of your person, Fruit of the Poisoned Tree, etc... It'll cost you to defend yourself though.
 
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AZkopper

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
675
Location
Prescott, Arizona, USA
It's a risk I take to exercise my Rights under a tyrannical regime that doesn't recognize them. .

Concealed Carry is not a right, it is a priviledge. Check numerous state Constitutions (Kentucky 1850, Texas 1868, Georgia 1868, Tennessee 1870, Missouri 1875, North Carolina 1875, Colorado 1876, Louisiana 1879, Montana 1889, Idaho 1889, Mississippi 1890, Utah 1896, Oklahoma 1907, New Mexico 1912), and case laws from the 19th century onward.

Open Carry is a right.
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
Concealed Carry is not a right, it is a priviledge. Check numerous state Constitutions (Kentucky 1850, Texas 1868, Georgia 1868, Tennessee 1870, Missouri 1875, North Carolina 1875, Colorado 1876, Louisiana 1879, Montana 1889, Idaho 1889, Mississippi 1890, Utah 1896, Oklahoma 1907, New Mexico 1912), and case laws from the 19th century onward.

Open Carry is a right.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems like a right to me, and not a privilege.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems like a right to me, and not a privilege.
As long as case law, statute, and state constitutions differ with your opinion, your opinion holds no weight in the eyes of the law.
 
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