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Thread: Is this forum hipicritical or am i missing something (OC while writing this)

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    Is this forum hipicritical or am i missing something (OC while writing this)

    I find it quite intresting that certain posts get flagged and deleted, lets say something to do with possibly calling out the injustice that some LEOS (in washington no less) have perpetrated and or the basic rights being lost (life, liberty and pursuit of happiness).

    Now I know they could technically be considered OT but what gets me is how other posts are allowed to stay up that have nothing to do with the topic at hand either. Say the capture of the barefoot bandit thread for instance, while i enjoy some of the conversation and dont believe it should necissarily be deleted, it seems there is a an anti-anti stance going on here. I am not saying it should be ok to bash anyone but if were going to say we cant talk about it because it does not relate then shouldnt it go for all threads that dont relate.

    I personally believe the state of our Police forces in Washington State are very reletive to this forum, but i understand many dont, but i just ask that those who dont like a certain topic to "NOT GO THERE" and let those who want to discuss it discuss it, or throw your off topic comments on every single thread that has nothing to do with OC.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    The issue is--and I know this because I have taken a HUGE part in unintentionally destroying a thread-- there is a main topic and it goes off the road, into the woods, hops into a spaceship and shoots off to an unknown destination (usually me).

    I think that the threads they pull, when they pull them, are pulled for a valid reason.

    That being said, we should discuss LEO's because our OC/CC affects our lives, the lives of others around us, including LEO's.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    If you see off-topic threads, use the little triangle near the lower left of the first post to "report this" to a moderator, and point out why you are sending the report.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    I apologize but I feel like adding my "off topic comments" to this thread.

    It appears to me that the reason why certain off topic threads are not allowed is because it puts the OC community in a bad light. (my opinion only) This forum is designed to SPREAD the knowledge that OC is not a "bad thing" nor something that "bad guys do."

    Threads that bash cops not only do not fulfill that goal but also tend to paint a NEGATIVE picture of OC'ers as authority hating rebels. (my opinion again)

    That is not to say that bringing a LEGAL or LEO issue to light is not welcomed, as this forum has helped to reeducate NUMEROUS police departments on the issue of OC via OC'ers posting on here.

    The issue comes when it turns into a "all cops suck" or something to that effect. Not all COPS/LEO's are bad just as not all people are bad. Unfortunately there is good and bad amongst every single kind of people regardless of race, job, ethnic upbringing, sex, color, religion, or creed. That is one of the things that makes the human species not only unique but confusing as well.

    Also threads that are advertisements do not serve a purpose in SPREADING the OC philosophy, that is why they get banned as well...
    Last edited by devildoc5; 07-15-2010 at 12:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    I apologize but I feel like adding my "off topic comments" to this thread.

    It appears to me that the reason why certain off topic threads are not allowed is because it puts the OC community in a bad light. (my opinion only) This forum is designed to SPREAD the knowledge that OC is not a "bad thing" nor something that "bad guys do."

    Threads that bash cops not only do not fulfill that goal but also tend to paint a NEGATIVE picture of OC'ers as authority hating rebels. (my opinion again)

    That is not to say that bringing a LEGAL or LEO issue to light is not welcomed, as this forum has helped to reeducate NUMEROUS police departments on the issue of OC via OC'ers posting on here.

    The issue comes when it turns into a "all cops suck" or something to that effect. Not all COPS/LEO's are bad just as not all people are bad. Unfortunately there is good and bad amongst every single kind of people regardless of race, job, ethnic upbringing, sex, color, religion, or creed. That is one of the things that makes the human species not only unique but confusing as well.

    Also threads that are advertisements do not serve a purpose in SPREADING the OC philosophy, that is why they get banned as well...

    Thats why i put oc while writing this, i understand the all cops suck mentality is wrong, and do not condone or agree with it, but i do know that most threads that discuss these issues are not "cop bashing threads" though there might be a few people who do bash them.

    when bringing issues to light about statistics of Police brutality or Breaking the law, dosent make it a "bashing thread". I understand we are trying to educate about OC and do not want to be looked at in a bad light, but banning discussions of issues that might offend people seems off to me, if that were the case wouldnt we stop discussing OC at Starbucks, it offends many people.

    Educating dosent mean pandering to a certain group, nor does asking why we as citizens continue to put up with the increase in wrongs done to the american people even if those wrongs are done by LEO make us authority hating rebels.

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    That being said, we should discuss LEO's because our OC/CC affects our lives, the lives of others around us, including LEO's.[/QUOTE]

    i completly agree, i have yet to see a thread that says all cops suck, just because there are a few comments made dosent imply "LEO Bashing thread"

    if there was a valid reason for this i wouldnt have such an issue, however i have yet to see a true valid reason, what i see is "I dont like this thread or agree with it so we should pull it".

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    In the cases you are mentioning it is actually more of a "this in no way pertains to OC" thread...

    Yes there are cases of police brutality, yes there are cases of certain LEO's just being dumb and not appearing to care about anyone else but themselves.

    However the important thing to consider is "Does this apply to OC?"

    This forum is DEDICATED to OC, not to civil rights or liberties or oppressive governments or totalitarian regimes or the nuclear missile crisis in Cuba.

    That is where the line gets drawn.

    I apologize if you cannot see the difference in this, however this is not a civil liberties forum (the ACLU seems to have that part taken care of) this is a forum designed to support those who OC, those who want to OC and those tha are curious about OC.

    To open the door to other civil liberties would be a serious tax on bandwidth and resources that the mods feel could be better spent relating to OC issues on a NATIONAL level....

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    In the cases you are mentioning it is actually more of a "this in no way pertains to OC" thread...

    Yes there are cases of police brutality, yes there are cases of certain LEO's just being dumb and not appearing to care about anyone else but themselves.

    However the important thing to consider is "Does this apply to OC?"

    This forum is DEDICATED to OC, not to civil rights or liberties or oppressive governments or totalitarian regimes or the nuclear missile crisis in Cuba.

    That is where the line gets drawn.


    I apologize if you cannot see the difference in this, however this is not a civil liberties forum (the ACLU seems to have that part taken care of) this is a forum designed to support those who OC, those who want to OC and those tha are curious about OC.

    To open the door to other civil liberties would be a serious tax on bandwidth and resources that the mods feel could be better spent relating to OC issues on a NATIONAL level....
    really, so all the other forums that do not apply to OC that are still up makes you think i do not know the diffrence, Hence the hipocrisy.

    look throught the threads and tell me there are not others still up that are more off topic then what i am talking about, you are using the blanket statment used by those who only want to discuss their opinions.

    can you give a better awnser? probley not.

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    ok plain and simple here is your answer: It is not allowed because the people that PAY for this site say so.

    They make rules and have admins that ATTEMPT to enforce those rules, however with 50 states as well as Guam and PR and England and CANANANANANANANANADA having their own separate categories it is difficult to admin ALL of this with 100% efficiency, admins are people too!

    If you see a thread that is OT the best thign you can do to help the admins is to flag it as inappropriate.

    inappropriate is not just for kiddie porn ads and such, it is for anything that violates the ToS....

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    Da Rules

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    It is simple. If you do not feel a thread is on topic wrt the rules of this site, report it.

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    I can tell you exactly why your recent posting was flagged and deleted. I dont know how many others asked for it to come down but I sure as hell put my .02 in. The posting was not only off topic (like many others), but was blatant LEO Bashing. It was not productive in any way to the OC movement and I can say this was one thing that almost turned me away from joining the forum in the first place so I would hate for that to happen to others.

    LEO's weather you like them or not are considered a group of people right?

    Then starting a posting to say how much you dislike or distrust a group of people then give random statistics to support your argument of hate of said group of people would seem like a prejudice post to me. If I started a thread about an ethnic group like that or the 1911 carriers (haha) I would expect a much larger outcry than what you have heard.

    You are well within your rights as an American to hate anyone and everyone you want... but this forum is not a right and one should abide by its rules or hold the fate of Boo Boo.


    my .02
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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Chuck,

    We DO allow threads about police misconduct in regard to gun owners. However, as devlidoc5 noted, we do NOT allow threads about general police misconduct because we do not want to appear (nor are we) authority-hating rebels.

    There are whole sites that are dedicated to combating police corruption but we are not one of them. We are dedicated to advancing open carry and we try to keep the site focused as much as possible.

    Yes there are plenty of off-topic threads that do not get touched but again ... I will give a nod to the other posters in this thread who noted that THOSE THREADS do not have a negative connotation to them in the eyes of the average guest who might stumble upon the site.

    "Look at my new pet" = warm-fuzzy. "Cops are the devil" = anti-establishment fringe.

    I hope this makes sense. We try to moderate with a light hand and you can always PM me if you have a concern.


    John

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckUFarley View Post
    I find it quite intresting that certain posts get flagged and deleted, lets say something to do with possibly calling out the injustice that some LEOS (in washington no less) have perpetrated and or the basic rights being lost (life, liberty and pursuit of happiness).

    Now I know they could technically be considered OT but what gets me is how other posts are allowed to stay up that have nothing to do with the topic at hand either. Say the capture of the barefoot bandit thread for instance, while i enjoy some of the conversation and dont believe it should necissarily be deleted, it seems there is a an anti-anti stance going on here. I am not saying it should be ok to bash anyone but if were going to say we cant talk about it because it does not relate then shouldnt it go for all threads that dont relate.

    I personally believe the state of our Police forces in Washington State are very reletive to this forum, but i understand many dont, but i just ask that those who dont like a certain topic to "NOT GO THERE" and let those who want to discuss it discuss it, or throw your off topic comments on every single thread that has nothing to do with OC.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Saying this with caution there are some who are super sensitive about LEO, and will flag or defend anything negative said about them too.

    I like to point out that many here don't believe LEO to be "authorities" or any part of Government. I am not a cop basher but strongly believe in limited government including LEA's.

    On another note if all threads pointing out Police misconduct will be flagged I'd like to see the ones (when they don't pertain to OC) unduely pro LEA/LEO be treated with the same critical eye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Saying this with caution there are some who are super sensitive about LEO, and will flag or defend anything negative said about them too.

    I like to point out that many here don't believe LEO to be "authorities" or any part of Government. I am not a cop basher but strongly believe in limited government including LEA's.

    On another note if all threads pointing out Police misconduct will be flagged I'd like to see the ones (when they don't pertain to OC) unduely pro LEA/LEO be treated with the same critical eye.

    I think you said it better then me. I would have to also agree that what i am seeing is the super sensitive leo crowds, i was just pointing out the Hipocrisy that is going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckUFarley View Post
    I think you said it better then me. I would have to also agree that what i am seeing is the super sensitive leo crowds, i was just pointing out the Hipocrisy that is going on.
    The real reason they deleted your thread and don't agree with you is because you can't spell hypocrisy

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    Quote Originally Posted by brianstone1985 View Post
    I can tell you exactly why your recent posting was flagged and deleted. I dont know how many others asked for it to come down but I sure as hell put my .02 in. The posting was not only off topic (like many others), but was blatant LEO Bashing. It was not productive in any way to the OC movement and I can say this was one thing that almost turned me away from joining the forum in the first place so I would hate for that to happen to others.

    LEO's weather you like them or not are considered a group of people right?

    Then starting a posting to say how much you dislike or distrust a group of people then give random statistics to support your argument of hate of said group of people would seem like a prejudice post to me. If I started a thread about an ethnic group like that or the 1911 carriers (haha) I would expect a much larger outcry than what you have heard.

    You are well within your rights as an American to hate anyone and everyone you want... but this forum is not a right and one should abide by its rules or hold the fate of Boo Boo.


    my .02
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    And yet bashing liberals and democrats is allowed and widely practiced on almost every thread! Hypocritical sounds like the right term.
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    I started the disruption.

    I will speak up since I started the disruption of the previous thread you started.

    Chuck,

    You STARTED a thread with a negative connotation regarding LEO. Having seen several of those in the past, the move only one way. And that way is to bash LEO, as a group of people. Again, you STARTED a thread where that was the agenda. Whether you think that was the agenda or not, is irrelavant. As the START of a thread that is where it would end up.

    I am not a moderator, so I simply took it off track with my cat! Kind of a fun way to do it.

    Yes, many topics are OT, and many more swerve OT over time. Some of those move to criticize LEO in the swerving to an off topic thread. Some get locked by the MODs, some swerve back on topic.

    One of the rules of the forum is for us to police our own posts and threads. From time to time I do this.

    There are times where it is proper to criticize LEO as they are involved in a shooting with an armed/unarmed civilian in a self defense mode or something similar. But for the most part we are talking about rare cases and the criticism of a single LEO who created the action and not an entire group of LEO.

    I also think when we have a specific case of LEO violatin 4th/5th amendment rights that criticism and review are very beneficial.

    I hope that helps clarify why I took the thread to my cat, Squeaker! He's the best! LOL
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Warden View Post
    And yet bashing liberals and democrats is allowed and widely practiced on almost every thread! Hypocritical sounds like the right term.
    Would you like some cheese with that wine?



    News flash: liberals and democrats ARE the ones trying to take away our gun rights.

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    Regular Member Bob Warden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Would you like some cheese with that wine?



    News flash: liberals and democrats ARE the ones trying to take away our gun rights.
    My point has been proven.
    Meet the new boss; same as the old boss. -The Who

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Would you like some cheese with that wine?



    News flash: liberals and democrats ARE the ones trying to take away our gun rights.
    For the most part, from what I can see, yes. There are some who aren't, but I don't see them as helping our cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Warden View Post
    My point has been proven.
    Not really much of a point to make, since in the rules of this forum, "...posts attacking others based upon race, religions, national origin, sexual orientation, or anything other than opposition to gun rights..." is not allowed. Most (not all) people opposed to gun rights happen to be liberal or democrats, so you can see why there's a lot of threads that don't play nice when it comes to liberals and democrats.

    The key here is to remember that not ALL liberals or democrats are opposed to gun rights, and I believe that when someone does post something negative about liberals or democrats, they don't mean every single last individual. There's exceptions to almost everything. They're speaking of the majority of the group, and the message that comes out of that group. Heck, you could say republicans want to ban gay marriage, and say not every single republican individual does, and be correct.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Since this is so far off in left field, and off topic...

    I found this and think this gal hits the mark, Only thing I didnt hear was "you need to protect yourself, so load it up".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXeCAeACmJE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post

    News flash: liberals and democrats ARE the ones trying to take away our gun rights.

    It is not just "democrats" and "liberals" that are a threat to gun rights. Here is an old oped that ran in the New York Times back in 1991 in favor of the BRADY BILL. It could be argued that absent this mans support the bill wouldn't of been as popular as it was and may not have even passed. oh and as Governor he gave California a 15 DAY WAITING PERIOD FOR HANDGUNS!!!
    If you already know who I am talking about then you get a gold star for the day.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/op...rady-bill.html

    It never fails to amaze me that in so many areas this man had a great view of the proper and limited role of the federal government, and a respect for states rights, yet when it came to guns or drugs that all went right out the window.

    I mention this because its important to call out all the attackers of liberty even if it happens to be someone we usually like or respect.
    And we shouldn't lose focus by attacking ANY single group.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    It is not just "democrats" and "liberals" that are a threat to gun rights. Here is an old oped that ran in the New York Times back in 1991 in favor of the BRADY BILL. It could be argued that absent this mans support the bill wouldn't of been as popular as it was and may not have even passed. oh and as Governor he gave California a 15 DAY WAITING PERIOD FOR HANDGUNS!!!
    If you already know who I am talking about then you get a gold star for the day.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/op...rady-bill.html

    It never fails to amaze me that in so many areas this man had a great view of the proper and limited role of the federal government, and a respect for states rights, yet when it came to guns or drugs that all went right out the window.

    I mention this because its important to call out all the attackers of liberty even if it happens to be someone we usually like or respect.
    And we shouldn't lose focus by attacking ANY single group.
    Exceptions prove the rule.

    For the most part.

    A majority.

    Generally speaking.

    Compare gun laws in red states versus blue states.

    A majority of Dems voted for the 1994 AWB, a majority of Repubs didn't.

    Et cetera.

    You are arguing that the sky isn't blue (to use a colloquialism).

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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I found this and think this gal hits the mark, Only thing I didnt hear was "you need to protect yourself, so load it up".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXeCAeACmJE
    No I won't pull up my pants. I'm too .
    Last edited by OrangeIsTrouble; 07-16-2010 at 05:46 AM. Reason: Spelling!


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Exceptions prove the rule.

    For the most part.

    A majority.

    Generally speaking.

    Compare gun laws in red states versus blue states.

    A majority of Dems voted for the 1994 AWB, a majority of Repubs didn't.

    Et cetera.

    You are arguing that the sky isn't blue (to use a colloquialism).
    Of course there are exceptions to every rule, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
    I am just saying its important to not forget about the exceptions and to call them out
    Attack the issue or person not the party/label

    Both parties have attacked our liberties and ignored the constitution and I for one generally speaking have trouble telling the two apart.

    I was just pointing out that even those who most would think of as very "conservative" have bought into the false utility of gun control and other liberty stifling laws.

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