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Thread: OC of secondary weapon

  1. #1
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    OC of secondary weapon

    I read the thread about an OCer that came across a really agressive "anti" in Target and it really made me think.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ett-Washington

    I've read what I can find on OC and CC of weapons (other than firearms) in the Commonwealth. Does anyone know if an ASP expandible baton is legal to carry either OC, CC or both? I carried one as an LEO, but never thought about carrying one since I retired until recently. I've been trained in it's use and know it can be a very effective "less than lethal" intermediate weapon for situations when you REALLY don't want to draw and/or shoot your pistol.

    The closest thing I can find is 18.2-311 that discusses Blackjacks and throwing stars, but not specifically ASP batons. Anyone know the facts?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I've never found anything that prevented it nor have I ever heard of anyone being arrested for one.

    I don't care for them though. I've carried blackjacks, SAP's, ASp's and straight Batons.

    The ASP is the least effective of them all but since a Blackjack is out now, it is easily concealable and a little better than pepper.

    I'll stick with my Taser!

  3. #3
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    When Was the Law Written

    The law was probably written before ASP's came into existence.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I would think that the "of like kind" clause (18.2-308) would get you when comparing an ASP to a spring stick. They are both expandable batons used to strike. The manner in which they deploy is different, but the end result is the same, and too close for my comfort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    I would think that the "of like kind" clause (18.2-308) would get you when comparing an ASP to a spring stick. They are both expandable batons used to strike. The manner in which they deploy is different, but the end result is the same, and too close for my comfort.
    Wonder when we'll begin to push to have CHPs changed back to CWPs as they were before 1995?

  6. #6
    Lone Star Veteran Hokie's Avatar
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    The solution is to join the New Black Panther party and then you can OC a baton.
    "Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'"- Phelps Adams

  7. #7
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokie View Post
    The solution is to join the New Black Panther party and then you can OC a baton.
    Really? Got a cite for that one? I'd love to see it!
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  8. #8
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    Not a cite, but is this close enough?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU

  9. #9
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Wonder when we'll begin to push to have CHPs changed back to CWPs as they were before 1995?
    ABSOLUTELY ! I have been arguing for this for a long while, when I realized my CHP was not a WEAPON permit! Who is to blame for that scam and hustle of our rights? The Constitution says ARMS, not restricted to FIREarms. Who knows how to get the ball rolling on this issue? "Let's roll!"

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    ABSOLUTELY ! I have been arguing for this for a long while, when I realized my CHP was not a WEAPON permit! Who is to blame for that scam and hustle of our rights? The Constitution says ARMS, not restricted to FIREarms. Who knows how to get the ball rolling on this issue? "Let's roll!"
    You, Old Virginia Joe, are the point man on this issue. You just elected yourself.

    Find out who your State Delegate and Senator are, meet with them, raise the issue of how changing the CHP to a CWP would be a Good Thing (TM) for the Commonwealth, and ask them to sponsor legislation to make it happen.

    Be aware that some other folks around the commonwealth may be doing the same thing, so if your Delegate and/or Senator turn out not to be the Chief Patron that's OK so long as they are Co-Patrons.

    stay safe.

  11. #11
    Lone Star Veteran Hokie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobeewan View Post
    Not a cite, but is this close enough?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU
    Yep obama's doj droped all charges against them.
    "Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'"- Phelps Adams

  12. #12
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Anyone?

    I can't find a cite prohibiting the carrying of an ASP, but I see a class being held at the gun show for "Nonlethal Self Defense for the Concerned Citizen" and it includes expandable batons...

    Since they're giving this class, does that mean you can either OC or CC one in VA???

    (from the e-mail)

    2. Daily Seminar at 1:30 on Self Defense:
    NON LETHAL SELF DEFENSE FOR THE CONCERNED CITIZEN
    A brief study and comparison of the various options available for civilian self defense. Presented by a certified law enforcement and civilian self defense expert trainer. This class will examine the pros and cons of different "non deadly" personal defense weapons. The instructor will present objective information concerning what works best as well as some of the associated legal concerns. Weapon options will include Pepper Spray, Stun Guns, Expandable Batons and TASER products.


    Is there a charge for the class? This is very interesting...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I think that's going to be like looking for a cite that makes OC legal. There isn't really one because there's no law against it.

    I did a little research on a spring stick and there is a very real difference. The spring stick has to have a spring that propels the sections out. It works like the kill stick used to slaughter cattle, just spring powered. Often ballistic knives have an interchangeable prod that can be used instead of the blade. That's what's prohibited.

    It is not the ASP like weapons made with a springy whip.

    It just doesn't look like it's close enough to anything prohibited to be illegal. It would be a good idea to double check with User on this and get a professional opinion.
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-20-2010 at 11:53 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    Who is to blame for that scam and hustle of our rights?
    If I remember correctly it was changed from a CWP to a CHP around the time it went from "may-issue" to "shall-issue."

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    If I remember correctly it was changed from a CWP to a CHP around the time it went from "may-issue" to "shall-issue."
    Yes and no Nova.

    The judges could issue what they pleased. The default was CWP but my first one (You had to re apply every year) was restricted to carrying a handgun to, from and during work.

    The second year I think....was when the judge got tired of writing and made it unrestricted.

  16. #16
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    18.2-308 history

    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    If I remember correctly it was changed from a CWP to a CHP around the time it went from "may-issue" to "shall-issue."
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+CHAP0829

    At the bottom of http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM you can view the history of the section. The changes since 1994 are hyperlinks to the actual amendments.

  17. #17
    Regular Member KaosDad's Avatar
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    I just recently got my permit. What I found interesting is that, on the Clerk's recipt, the "Type of case" is "Concealed Handgun". However, the code cited was "104 SP EXP-TAG/CWP". So, the code still deals with all CWPs?

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by virginiatuck View Post
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+CHAP0829

    At the bottom of http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM you can view the history of the section. The changes since 1994 are hyperlinks to the actual amendments.
    And if you do choose to browse around those hyperlinks, I recommend you click on the "hilite" link at the top of the page. That refreshes with the actual changes for that particular law highlighted in bright yellow. You can quickly scroll down the page and they pop out at you. Much easier to pick out than the default italics.

    TFred

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