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Thread: Birmingham Police Force Open Carriers To Leave STARBUCKS!!!!

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    Angry Birmingham Police Force Open Carriers To Leave STARBUCKS!!!!

    Sorry for the late posting, everybody. This took place on Sunday, July 11, 2010

    I have been in Mobile working and unable to get online. Below is a video link where you can watch the video. The real interesting video is on "Video Part 4". Click the link below and your will be given the option to skip forward to part 4!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtX0shqCjFw

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    It was hard to follow, but the complaint seemed to be that you all were "causing alarm."

    So what? If you are doing nothing but passively exercising your rights, folks who are alarmed are responsible for that alarm--and for abating it if they don't like being alarmed.

    If you are actively doing something with your handguns that alarms folks, like waving them around, then the cops should intervene. Other than for such action, I would contend that they don't have the power to do anything about it.

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    Admit~

    The person who was alarmed was the female officer and thats it! She admits it!
    Last edited by Hollowpoint38; 07-15-2010 at 09:34 PM.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    You gotta be kidding. You were doing nothing wrong. Did you get dinner and a movie first.....maybe a reach around. Fear of guns is a treatable mental disorder.
    Next time, please stand up for your rights.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    You gotta be kidding. You were doing nothing wrong. Did you get dinner and a movie first.....maybe a reach around. Fear of guns is a treatable mental disorder.
    Next time, please stand up for your rights.
    Don't be too judgmental. At least one of these guys is working through a recent ARREST for legally OCing.

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    Regular Member FedFirefighter's Avatar
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    Whats up Tim? Good to have you back. Oh, and nice haircut Jonathon. I think you all handled yourself very well and made the right choice considering the whole out on bail thing. It seemed like a very friendly exchange, I hope to come up and join y'all sometime.

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    I commented on the video. Next time stand up for yourselves instead of getting kicked out and talking behind the cops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    I commented on the video. Next time stand up for yourselves instead of getting kicked out and talking behind the cops.
    At the risk of repeating myself:

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Don't be too judgmental. At least one of these guys is working through a recent ARREST for legally OCing.
    Last edited by eye95; 07-15-2010 at 11:18 PM.

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    Arrow

    Whens the next Birmingham Starbucks meet? I would really like to join

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    Habeas Coffee, Habeas Coffee!!!

    O.K., when they mess with gun rights they are messing with fundamental rights, but when they kick you out of your caffine junkie fix station they are inflicting cruel and unusual punishment.

    Three bricks to the Birmingham Police:

    1) Abusing the civil rights of open carriers, strike 1

    2) Inflicting cruel and unusual punishment on caffiene addicts, strike 2

    3) Allowing a police officer with hoplophobia mental disorder to carry a firearm, strike 3



    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Looks like you guys handled it ok. We want the Police to be on our side, and part of the mission is to let them be educated that what we do is legal and non threatening. I'll bet that female officer has a different tact the next time she runs to an open carrier. They, police, have a certain responcibility to make sure that we are legal, and then their responcibility is to stand down, by either leaving or sit down and have a cup of coffee with us.

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    Please keep us updated on how you proceed with these uninformed LEOs. I hate to say it, but it seems that some LEOs need to be made examples of to educate the rest. It would be nice to have a few LEOs suspended without pay for a while. Maybe this would make others start thinking before tramping on our rights.

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    They, police, have a certain responcibility to make sure that we are legal, and then their responcibility is to stand down, by either leaving or sit down and have a cup of coffee with us.
    I disagree Jeff. They have a responsibility to stop people who are committing crimes. If there is no crime being committed, or about to be committed, then they have the responsibility to allow us to exercise our rights, not harass us. What they are doing is profiling, nothing more, nothing less. When is the last time you saw a criminal sitting in Starbucks, chatting with friends, having coffee, with an OC firearm. All criminals I have seen carry concealed until they pull the firearm out to commit a crime.

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    How would this play out if you had the Starbucks manager on your side? If the manager specifically told the cops you were welcome to open carry would they leave you alone?

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    Macgulley...My take on it would be that yes the police would have had to leave the premises if they were inside the shop, but from the video, it looks to me that they were sitting on the sidewalk so I would think the manager would not have much say in the situation even though the cops were in the wrong.

    Correct me if I am wrong...

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    StarBucks Official Company Policy straight from StarBucks Corporate Office in Seattle, Washington is:
    ...[S]tarBucks follws any and all applicable Federal and State Laws regarding Firearms.
    ...[S]tarBucks has advised all/every/its Baristo/a(s) and all Managers not to interfere with Lawful Acts concerning Firearms by Customers while they are at StarBucks.
    -Per Company Service Representative..., Tel. STARBUCKS.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    As I have said before. You guys are going to need to either get OC spelled out in the AL constitution or in the code. I know it is distasteful but is it not better than people constantly getting harrased and arrested? Sure, you can sue one sheriff at a time but what is that going to take...20 years?

    It would take one hell of an attitude change in AL for OC to be accepted otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    As I have said before. You guys are going to need to either get OC spelled out in the AL constitution or in the code. I know it is distasteful but is it not better than people constantly getting harrased and arrested? Sure, you can sue one sheriff at a time but what is that going to take...20 years?

    It would take one hell of an attitude change in AL for OC to be accepted otherwise.
    I don't think this is abslutely necessary - else the old code text now preempted by subsequent statutes as a matter oif law would be enforced thru arrests and prosecutions - what you need is more open carry to secure open carry - that's what it took in all states.

    What is the status of challenging the preempted open carry bans in the several Alabama cities banning handgun carry in city halls?

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    Guys.

    You do realize I was arrested in that exact spot one week ago for "disorderly conduct" for lawful OC.

    I'm out on bail, and if arrested again, bail gets revoked. Then I lose job.

    Kwik, you're an idiot. I supported you all this time, and when I OC'ed my AK RIFLE (not pistol) ON JULY 4TH AND WAS ARRESTED FOR DISORDERLY CONDUCT you call us pussies for dispersing the next week. You weren't arrested. I am in the process of litigation, yeah I said it, so now everybody knows.

    We are standing up for our rights. It just isn't all on video.

    Mike, preemption is the least of our concerns right now, but I'll check in on the Birmingham City Council pretty soon.
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Norris View Post
    You do realize I was arrested in that exact spot one week ago for "disorderly conduct" for lawful OC.

    I'm out on bail, and if arrested again, bail gets revoked. Then I lose job.

    Kwik, you're an idiot. I supported you all this time, and when I OC'ed my AK RIFLE (not pistol) ON JULY 4TH AND WAS ARRESTED FOR DISORDERLY CONDUCT you call us pussies for dispersing the next week. You weren't arrested. I am in the process of litigation, yeah I said it, so now everybody knows.

    We are standing up for our rights. It just isn't all on video.

    Mike, preemption is the least of our concerns right now, but I'll check in on the Birmingham City Council pretty soon.
    If you were lawfully carrying then let them arrest you again. Your Federal lawsuit can be amended and more defendants added. If you lose your job that is more damages. Was everyone in the group out on bail?

    It is illegal to open carry a rifle on this forum, read the rules.
    Last edited by kwikrnu; 07-16-2010 at 08:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    If you were lawfully carrying then let them arrest you again. Your Federal lawsuit can be amended and more defendants added. If you lose your job that is more damages. Was everyone in the group out on bail?

    It is illegal to open carry a rifle on this forum, read the rules.
    You're play pretty fast and loose with other people's freedom and jobs.

    And, it is not "illegal" to open carry a rifle "on this forum." This forum is not about OC of rifles, and talking about doing so is considered to be off-topic. However, this thread is about being harassed for OC of handguns (which is on-topic for this forum). The fact that a case is pending regarding OC of a rifle is provided only as background to the choices made by one of the folks being harassed.

    If you are going to visit the Alabama sub-forum, I hope you show more respect for the Alabama OCers in the future. Your two posts in this thread are judgmental and rude--unacceptably so.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    If you were lawfully carrying then let them arrest you again. Your Federal lawsuit can be amended and more defendants added. If you lose your job that is more damages.
    And what do we do in the meantime for, you know, bills, food, a house payment... I thought you, of all people, would understand, but you have shown time and again you are only in it for the payday. That's pretty sad. Besides, we got a sergeant to admit that what we were doing was legal, on camera. Can you claim you have done as well? We got to say that we left that Starbucks of our own free will, on good terms with at least one of the officers. Can you say the same about your encounters?

    Was everyone in the group out on bail?
    No, and I'm sure we'd like to keep it that way if at all possible. I, for one, would rather go OC somewhere else when faced with a choice between that and having my liberty infringed, my firearm confiscated, my record tarnished, and my livelihood taken. Also, I will not make a choice that negatively affects other people. If it had just been me, I may have pushed the issue. However, I will not make the choice to bring others down with me, especially if they have more to lose than I do.

    It is illegal to open carry a rifle on this forum, read the rules.
    You know? Ever since the forum switch, I haven't been able to find that particular rule. Could you please cite it? And I would love for you to try and stop someone from OCing a rifle on this forum. I could be doing it right now and you would never know, for example. Maybe you should re-think your choice of words. :P

    In the state of Alabama, OC of any kind of firearm (or other weapon for that matter) is legal. We should support anyone who is arrested for doing something legal, not just the ones wearing handguns.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    If you were lawfully carrying then let them arrest you again. Your Federal lawsuit can be amended and more defendants added. If you lose your job that is more damages. Was everyone in the group out on bail?
    Some people OC for other reasons that to escalate armed confrontations so they can sue and get a check.


    Quote Originally Posted by mcdonalk View Post
    And what do we do in the meantime for, you know, bills, food, a house payment.
    Apparently his job is litigation so it is unlikely he will understand.


    Kwik, these are BRAVE MEN doing something that is causing personal hardship. They take this risk to make life better for their fellow citizens. You have NO RIGHT to come here and berate them. I think it is safe to say they don't want your kind of help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Norris View Post
    I'm out on bail, and if arrested again, bail gets revoked. Then I lose job.
    DEY'LL TAKE HIZ JERB! </troll>
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdonalk View Post
    And what do we do in the meantime for, you know, bills, food, a house payment... I thought you, of all people, would understand, but you have shown time and again you are only in it for the payday. That's pretty sad. Besides, we got a sergeant to admit that what we were doing was legal, on camera. Can you claim you have done as well? We got to say that we left that Starbucks of our own free will, on good terms with at least one of the officers. Can you say the same about your encounters?

    No, and I'm sure we'd like to keep it that way if at all possible. I, for one, would rather go OC somewhere else when faced with a choice between that and having my liberty infringed, my firearm confiscated, my record tarnished, and my livelihood taken. Also, I will not make a choice that negatively affects other people. If it had just been me, I may have pushed the issue. However, I will not make the choice to bring others down with me, especially if they have more to lose than I do.


    You know? Ever since the forum switch, I haven't been able to find that particular rule. Could you please cite it? And I would love for you to try and stop someone from OCing a rifle on this forum. I could be doing it right now and you would never know, for example. Maybe you should re-think your choice of words. :P

    In the state of Alabama, OC of any kind of firearm (or other weapon for that matter) is legal. We should support anyone who is arrested for doing something legal, not just the ones wearing handguns.
    If you can't afford to get arrested and cops are arresting people for simply open carrying a handgun my suggestion is do not open carry. If you are worried about an arrest record you shouldn't open carry where it is known cops arrest people for open carry. If you open carry where arrests are common you may want to rethink owning just one handgun. I am a nursing student seeking an RN degree so if I am arrested I lose a year of school. I'm not worried because that year is going to cost them. I obey the laws and will not cave to unlawful orders. I will not sign an arrest citation. Your caving in to the order to leave emboldens that cop and every cop he tells. Your group didn't do anything for open carry. The cop may have recognized that open carry is legal, but that is of little value when you run away like scared school girls when the cops come calling.

    I have three lawsuits pending and an ouster complaint to the AG. I have two more lawsuits on the wings. I have video and audio evidence of cops stopping me illegally w/o RAS or PC, searching me w/o PC or RAS, running serial #'s w/o RAS or PC. I have evidence of retaliation, oppression, malfeasance, and other civil rights violations. I don't care if cops like me, I only care that they respect my rights. This isn't about me it is about your youtube video and Alabama Carry.

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