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The Ruger LCR
- Thread starter TehGruu
- Start date
Marco
Regular Member
www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=443
Never experienced the OP problem, never had one exit a coyote.
I've fired the above load from a S&W 340PD and haven't experienced that problem, pure spectulation on your part or do you have evidence to support.
Marco
Regular Member
Not my rant:
But it fits.
5.7×28mm: Ingenious way to make a centerfire .22 Magnum and then charge quadruple price for the same ballistics. Awesome chambering for a police weapon…if you’re the park ranger in charge of the chipmunk exhibit at the zoo, and you want to make sure you can take one down if it turns rabid on you.
.25ACP: Direct violation of the maxim “Never do an enemy a minor injury”. Designed by folks who wanted to retain the bullet diameter of the .22 rimfire round, but take a bit of the excessive lethality out of it. Favored by people who don’t feel comfortable carrying anything more dangerous than the neighbor kid’s rusty Red Ryder pellet gun.
.32ACP: Inadequate for anything more thick-skinned than Northeastern squirrels or inbred Austrian archdukes. Semi-rimmed cartridge that is rimlock-happy in modern lightweight autoloaders. Doesn’t go fast enough to expand a hollowpoint bullet, and it wouldn’t matter even if it did, because the bullet would only expand from tiny to small-ish.
.380ACP/9mm Kurz: Designed by people who thought the 9mm Luger was a bit too brisk and snappy, which is pretty much all that needs to be said here. Great round if you expect to only ever be attacked by people less than seven inches thick from front to back.
.38 Special: Legacy design with a case length that’s 75% longer than necessary for the mediocre ballistics of the round due to its blackpowder heritage. On the plus side, the case length makes it easy to handle when reloading the gun. This is a good thing because anyone using their .38 in self-defense against a 250-pound attacker hopped up on crack will need to empty the gun multiple times.
9mm Luger: European popgun round that’s only popular because the ammo is cheap for a centerfire cartridge. Cheap ammo is a good thing for 9mm aficionados, because anything bigger and more dangerous than a cranky raccoon will likely require multiple well-placed hits. Wildly popular all over the world, mostly in countries where people don’t carry guns, and cops don’t have to actually shoot people with theirs.
.45ACP: Chunky low-pressure cartridge that hogs magazine space and requires a low-capacity design (if the gun needs to fit human hands) or a grip with the circumference of a two-liter soda bottle (if the gun needs to hold more than seven rounds). Disturbingly prone to bullet setback, expensive to reload, fits only into big and clunky guns, and a recoil that has an inversely proportionate relationship with muzzle energy.
.40S&W: Neutered compromise version of a compromise cartridge. Even more setback-happy than the .45ACP, and setbacks are much more dangerous because of higher pressure and smaller case volume. Manages to sacrifice both the capacity of the 9mm and the bullet diameter of the .45. Twice the recoil of the 9mm for 10% more muzzle energy.
.357SIG: Highly overpriced boutique round that does the .40S&W one worse: it manages to share the capacity penalty of the .40 while retaining the small bullet diameter of the 9mm. Noisy, sharp recoil, and 100% cost penalty for ballistics that can be matched by a good 9mm +P+ load. Penetrates like the dickens, which means that the Air Marshals just had to adopt it…only to load their guns with frangible bullets to make sure they don’t penetrate like the dickens.
.357 Magnum: Lots of recoil, muzzle blast, and noise to drive a 9mm bullet to reckless speeds in an attempt to make up for its low mass and diameter. Explosive fragmentation and insufficient penetration with light bullets; excessive penetration and insufficient expansion with heavy ones. Still makes only 9mm holes in the target.
.44 Magnum: Overpowered round that generates manageable recoil and muzzle blast…if you’re a 300-pound linebacker with wrists like steel girders. Often loaded to “Lite” levels that turn it into a noisy .44 Special while retaining the ego-preserving Magnum headstamp. Considered the “most powerful handgun cartridge in the world” by people whose gun knowledge is either stuck in 1960, or who get their expertise in ballistics from Dirty Harry movies.
.50 Desert Eagle - The Magnum of the new century. Realizing Hollywood couldn't escape their Magnum fetishes, they had a handgun that fits the same stopping power quota of .44 Magnum and all of its filthy drawbacks. Popular amongst steroid filled movie actors who needs big guns to compensate for the steroid struck testicles. Comes in a baby variant for junior.
10mm Auto: Super-high pressure cartridge that beats up gun and shooter alike. Very brisk recoil in anything other than all-steel S&W boat anchors, with a shot recovery that’s measured in geological epochs for most handgun platforms. Often underloaded to wimpy levels (see “.40 S&W”), which then gives it 9mm ballistics while requiring .45ACP magazine real estate.
But it fits.
5.7×28mm: Ingenious way to make a centerfire .22 Magnum and then charge quadruple price for the same ballistics. Awesome chambering for a police weapon…if you’re the park ranger in charge of the chipmunk exhibit at the zoo, and you want to make sure you can take one down if it turns rabid on you.
.25ACP: Direct violation of the maxim “Never do an enemy a minor injury”. Designed by folks who wanted to retain the bullet diameter of the .22 rimfire round, but take a bit of the excessive lethality out of it. Favored by people who don’t feel comfortable carrying anything more dangerous than the neighbor kid’s rusty Red Ryder pellet gun.
.32ACP: Inadequate for anything more thick-skinned than Northeastern squirrels or inbred Austrian archdukes. Semi-rimmed cartridge that is rimlock-happy in modern lightweight autoloaders. Doesn’t go fast enough to expand a hollowpoint bullet, and it wouldn’t matter even if it did, because the bullet would only expand from tiny to small-ish.
.380ACP/9mm Kurz: Designed by people who thought the 9mm Luger was a bit too brisk and snappy, which is pretty much all that needs to be said here. Great round if you expect to only ever be attacked by people less than seven inches thick from front to back.
.38 Special: Legacy design with a case length that’s 75% longer than necessary for the mediocre ballistics of the round due to its blackpowder heritage. On the plus side, the case length makes it easy to handle when reloading the gun. This is a good thing because anyone using their .38 in self-defense against a 250-pound attacker hopped up on crack will need to empty the gun multiple times.
9mm Luger: European popgun round that’s only popular because the ammo is cheap for a centerfire cartridge. Cheap ammo is a good thing for 9mm aficionados, because anything bigger and more dangerous than a cranky raccoon will likely require multiple well-placed hits. Wildly popular all over the world, mostly in countries where people don’t carry guns, and cops don’t have to actually shoot people with theirs.
.45ACP: Chunky low-pressure cartridge that hogs magazine space and requires a low-capacity design (if the gun needs to fit human hands) or a grip with the circumference of a two-liter soda bottle (if the gun needs to hold more than seven rounds). Disturbingly prone to bullet setback, expensive to reload, fits only into big and clunky guns, and a recoil that has an inversely proportionate relationship with muzzle energy.
.40S&W: Neutered compromise version of a compromise cartridge. Even more setback-happy than the .45ACP, and setbacks are much more dangerous because of higher pressure and smaller case volume. Manages to sacrifice both the capacity of the 9mm and the bullet diameter of the .45. Twice the recoil of the 9mm for 10% more muzzle energy.
.357SIG: Highly overpriced boutique round that does the .40S&W one worse: it manages to share the capacity penalty of the .40 while retaining the small bullet diameter of the 9mm. Noisy, sharp recoil, and 100% cost penalty for ballistics that can be matched by a good 9mm +P+ load. Penetrates like the dickens, which means that the Air Marshals just had to adopt it…only to load their guns with frangible bullets to make sure they don’t penetrate like the dickens.
.357 Magnum: Lots of recoil, muzzle blast, and noise to drive a 9mm bullet to reckless speeds in an attempt to make up for its low mass and diameter. Explosive fragmentation and insufficient penetration with light bullets; excessive penetration and insufficient expansion with heavy ones. Still makes only 9mm holes in the target.
.44 Magnum: Overpowered round that generates manageable recoil and muzzle blast…if you’re a 300-pound linebacker with wrists like steel girders. Often loaded to “Lite” levels that turn it into a noisy .44 Special while retaining the ego-preserving Magnum headstamp. Considered the “most powerful handgun cartridge in the world” by people whose gun knowledge is either stuck in 1960, or who get their expertise in ballistics from Dirty Harry movies.
.50 Desert Eagle - The Magnum of the new century. Realizing Hollywood couldn't escape their Magnum fetishes, they had a handgun that fits the same stopping power quota of .44 Magnum and all of its filthy drawbacks. Popular amongst steroid filled movie actors who needs big guns to compensate for the steroid struck testicles. Comes in a baby variant for junior.
10mm Auto: Super-high pressure cartridge that beats up gun and shooter alike. Very brisk recoil in anything other than all-steel S&W boat anchors, with a shot recovery that’s measured in geological epochs for most handgun platforms. Often underloaded to wimpy levels (see “.40 S&W”), which then gives it 9mm ballistics while requiring .45ACP magazine real estate.
simmonsjoe
Regular Member
Not pure speculation.
Google double tap chronographed and you'll find nobody can duplicate their stated velocities.
Buffalo Bore's reputation, however, it that their velocities are real world. He specifically recommends not to use his ammo in super light revolvers.
I also highly doubt you've fired more than 10-20 of those rounds out of that Airweight. Be honest. Nobody wants to get beat up shooting an airweight 357 more than they have to. Most people can't afford to run that stuff for plinking anyways.
Moreover, Coyotes are pretty damn small (avg. 15-46lbs, largest recorded 74lbs) and I would expect a 357 to go through one, even a JHP. Did you shoot him with your airweight? You may have had a low velocity round due to crimp jump yourself. lol.
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simmonsjoe
Regular Member
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Marco
Regular Member
You'd be incorrect.
Not all of us are afraid of recoil.
I fire at least 100rds of any load before I trust my life to it.
NO, 4" 686+
I haven't unpacked my reloading supplies since moving to VA but when I do we can go chrono some loads.
BOT:
The LCR is as a good SD choice.
simmonsjoe
Regular Member
glad you can blow $100 on testing ammo.
Shooting 100rds of 357 from an airweight will make anyone sore. Trying to make it a manly thing is just silly, espicially when you have a 686 available. If I'm going to get beat up on the range it's gonna be worth it. Something in 44mag or better. Getting beat up on when you don't have to is silly, not manly.
I do like the LCR.
I sure as hell can't afford to.
Shooting 100rds of 357 from an airweight will make anyone sore. Trying to make it a manly thing is just silly, espicially when you have a 686 available. If I'm going to get beat up on the range it's gonna be worth it. Something in 44mag or better. Getting beat up on when you don't have to is silly, not manly.
I do like the LCR.
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VFORVENDETTA
Regular Member
Marco
Regular Member
WTF?
What value to do place on your and your families lives?
Rhetorical
Also, not insuring that your carry gun and ammo work perfectly together is foolish.
Never said I was trying to be manly, or that I did all the test firing in one session.
I've found that doing part of the breakin during a match helps me to forget about any discoomfort.
The fact that a load works perfectly in one gun doesn't mean it will work perfectly in another.
As for your internet research (you don't have any personal experience) regarding DT, I haven't had any issues with their ammo, been using it for a # of yrs now.
I haven't chrono'd a load in a few yrs but it works reliably in my guns and shots to point of aim, Buffalo Bore does have a few loads that I do perfer to use in one or two calibers, .38spl+p being one of them.
Example:
Recently bought a New Taurus 651 (.357 mag) after firing 50rds of ball I switched to a .38spl +p load that was the intended carry load. The gun broke before I had fired 100rds, it is now with Taurus for repair or replacement.
If someone locally wants to try the .38spl+p LCR I have one available
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I would take the .38 over .357 mag any day of the week in a gun that small.
Unless you have strong wrists and a good hold they have a *very* large amount of whip.
Just because people on this forum claim they can do it all the time doesn't mean that it is right for the majority of people.
Remember, it's not necessarily about the biggest or fastest bullet, but putting those rounds on target effectively.... sure that first shot might hit its target, but your follow up is toast if you need one.
My gun of choice for just messing around is a 500 S&W, and it's more manageable than most ultralight .357s.
Remember, the biggest factors in felt recoil are the weight of the firearm, length of barrel, and powder speed.
You have an extremely light gun, a short barrel, and a very fast burning powder in most .357 factory loads.
Three strikes.
EDIT: To correct myself since I know someone else probably will, the length of the barrel only comes into play related to the duration of the powder burn it has no effect directly from itself. Longer barrels also weigh more and resist whipping due to the location of that weight being further forward on the firearm. I.E. A 3" barrel and a 6" barrel that weigh the same would have almost no effect on recoil other than the 6" would resist whipping more than the 3", this is assuming that the 3" is long enough to promote complete burning of the powder.
Unless you have strong wrists and a good hold they have a *very* large amount of whip.
Just because people on this forum claim they can do it all the time doesn't mean that it is right for the majority of people.
Remember, it's not necessarily about the biggest or fastest bullet, but putting those rounds on target effectively.... sure that first shot might hit its target, but your follow up is toast if you need one.
My gun of choice for just messing around is a 500 S&W, and it's more manageable than most ultralight .357s.
Remember, the biggest factors in felt recoil are the weight of the firearm, length of barrel, and powder speed.
You have an extremely light gun, a short barrel, and a very fast burning powder in most .357 factory loads.
Three strikes.
EDIT: To correct myself since I know someone else probably will, the length of the barrel only comes into play related to the duration of the powder burn it has no effect directly from itself. Longer barrels also weigh more and resist whipping due to the location of that weight being further forward on the firearm. I.E. A 3" barrel and a 6" barrel that weigh the same would have almost no effect on recoil other than the 6" would resist whipping more than the 3", this is assuming that the 3" is long enough to promote complete burning of the powder.
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MSC 45ACP
Regular Member
You must be RICH. Not many of us can afford to feed a 500 S&W, so we don't own them. There is also the problem of OCing said weapon: Many of us are a little long in the tooth and find carrying Anti-Aircraft Artillery a little hard on the back. Also a little difficult to CC if you need to unless you're the Governator himself.
simmonsjoe
Regular Member
Agent19
You are obviously knowledgeable in hunting and target shooting, but your lack of practical pistol shooting is very evident. I think we are talking from two different angles here, as I'm a primarily a practical shooter.
I recommend you try an IDPA meet near you. You don't need to be a member if its your first time, and people will help you with any gear issues you may have. meets are usually 40-60 rounds.
You are obviously knowledgeable in hunting and target shooting, but your lack of practical pistol shooting is very evident. I think we are talking from two different angles here, as I'm a primarily a practical shooter.
I recommend you try an IDPA meet near you. You don't need to be a member if its your first time, and people will help you with any gear issues you may have. meets are usually 40-60 rounds.
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I like to entertain myself with one whenever I can, it's a hell of a firearm.
As for a carry weapon it's quite ridiculous I would agree, but I don't carry one.
I rent the ranges every time I am home, spend $200 on ammo (about 60-90 rounds depending on current prices) , and just have fun with it.
To date I have probably put a little under 1000 rounds downrange with it.
The point was it is much more pleasant to shoot than a super-compact .357, which is one of the most whippy and harsh recoiling handguns you can buy.
On a slightly related subject though, if you haven't shot a 500 yet, you should just for the experience. It's a very well built, and extremely excessive, weapon. Which is why it's so fun to shoot.
As for a carry weapon it's quite ridiculous I would agree, but I don't carry one.
I rent the ranges every time I am home, spend $200 on ammo (about 60-90 rounds depending on current prices) , and just have fun with it.
To date I have probably put a little under 1000 rounds downrange with it.
The point was it is much more pleasant to shoot than a super-compact .357, which is one of the most whippy and harsh recoiling handguns you can buy.
On a slightly related subject though, if you haven't shot a 500 yet, you should just for the experience. It's a very well built, and extremely excessive, weapon. Which is why it's so fun to shoot.
MSC 45ACP
Regular Member
I agree the 500 is nice to shoot. I shot a ported one at an outdoor range and was pleasantly suprised at the lack of recoil. I expected a LOT more than I got. It had less recoil than the .44 Desert Eagle. I'm sure the dampened recoil was from the weight of the pistol and the ported barrel. Those two factors make a huge difference. I've shot quite a few pistols and have found .357's and .40's to be the most "snappy" on average.
I've heard the Ruger LCR is a good carry gun. Notice I didn't say "nice range gun you want to shoot all day long". The same features that make it a good carry gun are the very same features that make it less fun to shoot: Light weight, small size and relatively high power. As those who have been in combat can relate, two things you do NOT notice when the SHTF: Loud noises (discharge of your weapon) and recoil.
If you are in a situation where you have to use your sidearm defensively, You'll also be dealing with other factors: You'll experience "tunnel vision" where you will hyper-focus on what is in front of you and lose situational awareness of everything else around. You will also have an unbelieveable "adreneline dump" that will cause your pulse to pound in your ears. You won't hear voices spoken at a normal level. Everything you hear will sound like the normal spoken voice sounds while wearing "ear muffs" at the range. The ONLY way to overcome these factors and react in a way that MAY save your life is through PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!
If you have a .357 magnum pistol, you can shoot .38 wadcutters all day long at the range and save a lot of money in the process. Keep that pistol loaded with full load, .357 mag "Man-Stopping" defensive rounds specifically made for 1 7/8" barrels. if you ever have to use it, you won't notice the difference.
{stepping down from the soapbox}
I've heard the Ruger LCR is a good carry gun. Notice I didn't say "nice range gun you want to shoot all day long". The same features that make it a good carry gun are the very same features that make it less fun to shoot: Light weight, small size and relatively high power. As those who have been in combat can relate, two things you do NOT notice when the SHTF: Loud noises (discharge of your weapon) and recoil.
If you are in a situation where you have to use your sidearm defensively, You'll also be dealing with other factors: You'll experience "tunnel vision" where you will hyper-focus on what is in front of you and lose situational awareness of everything else around. You will also have an unbelieveable "adreneline dump" that will cause your pulse to pound in your ears. You won't hear voices spoken at a normal level. Everything you hear will sound like the normal spoken voice sounds while wearing "ear muffs" at the range. The ONLY way to overcome these factors and react in a way that MAY save your life is through PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!
If you have a .357 magnum pistol, you can shoot .38 wadcutters all day long at the range and save a lot of money in the process. Keep that pistol loaded with full load, .357 mag "Man-Stopping" defensive rounds specifically made for 1 7/8" barrels. if you ever have to use it, you won't notice the difference.
{stepping down from the soapbox}
VFORVENDETTA
Regular Member
Instead of the LCR how about the glock 33, double capacity and small.
MSC 45ACP
Regular Member
The LCR probably costs quite a bit less than the G-33 and .38 WC ammo is most certainly less expensive than .357 Sig.
I know you mean well, but a few of us here are not independently wealthy. Some of us are retired on fixed income while raising 4 children. Some things are nice to have, others are need to have. I don't NEED an LCR right away, but I can't see a NEED for a G-33 in the future. I don't like the grip shape of Glocks, anyway. It makes my arthritis act up in my thumb. That was another reason I just sold our G-21. I'm an old-fashioned kinda guy... I like 1911's, revolvers and a very select few others.
Thank you for mentioning the G-33, though. It looks like a nice pistol for someone looking for a pocket auto.
One more thing: A revolver can be shot from inside a pocket if necessary (not enough time to draw) but you can't do that with a semi-auto unless you want some body parts and/or tissue to relocate themselves (painfully).
ALWAYS think tactically. Never let your guard down. When you enter new surroundings, you darn sure better be analyzing threats because they have already analyzed you. You never know when you might have to shoot from the hip, from inside clothing. How many have practiced shooting from the hip after drawing from the holster? If you never have, you're way behind the curve!
I know you mean well, but a few of us here are not independently wealthy. Some of us are retired on fixed income while raising 4 children. Some things are nice to have, others are need to have. I don't NEED an LCR right away, but I can't see a NEED for a G-33 in the future. I don't like the grip shape of Glocks, anyway. It makes my arthritis act up in my thumb. That was another reason I just sold our G-21. I'm an old-fashioned kinda guy... I like 1911's, revolvers and a very select few others.
Thank you for mentioning the G-33, though. It looks like a nice pistol for someone looking for a pocket auto.
One more thing: A revolver can be shot from inside a pocket if necessary (not enough time to draw) but you can't do that with a semi-auto unless you want some body parts and/or tissue to relocate themselves (painfully).
ALWAYS think tactically. Never let your guard down. When you enter new surroundings, you darn sure better be analyzing threats because they have already analyzed you. You never know when you might have to shoot from the hip, from inside clothing. How many have practiced shooting from the hip after drawing from the holster? If you never have, you're way behind the curve!
simmonsjoe
Regular Member
I'm a little confused? Shooting an automatic from your pocket limits you to one shot with a very high likelyhood of a jam, but is not particularly as dangerous as you suggest. [strike]If your concerned about slide-bite (a minor annoyance, one I doubt you'd feel in a fight/flight situation) simply place your thumb on the back of the slide.[/strike]. This will keep it from cycling at all. You can then remove your gun and rack the slide to manually charge. (This is obviously better than clearing a jam)
above redacted as it is an advanced method and may not be suitable for all firearms or shooters. If you try this I'm not responsible if you do it wrong and injure yourself.
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This is true for the most part, BUT even though you do not notice the recoil because of your adrenaline rush it still effects you none the less. In an emergency situation you want accuracy and you want the ability for follow-up shots. If your planning on using this a SHTF gun for if someone tackles you, then it would work great... but the OP has "primary carry" in his list of uses and this is not suited for one.
This is true, but I don't see how it effects the discussion about .357 vs. .38 right now. Good argument for why people need training though.
You may not notice, but once again it still effects your accuracy
Revolvers have hammer bite, no different from slide bite when shot from inside a pocket without a good grip. Unless you know exactly what is behind your target this is not recommended, chances are your going to miss unless they are within a few feet, and if you hit anyone behind them you can be damn sure your going to be prosecuted for it. As for cycling reliably the hammer on a revolver can catch on the material inside the pocket just as much as a round can fail to eject in a slide because of it.
This I would agree with, everyone should practice shooting in unconventional positions and situations. One I would add would be the ability to draw and shoot accurately while lying on your stomach.
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Marco
Regular Member
Incorrect again.
BOT:
OP and others if your looking for a lght weight, reilable revolver the LCR is a good choice.
MSC 45ACP
Regular Member
WilliamRB; Did you happen to notice the pistol we are discussing (Ruger LCR) HAS NO VISIBLE HAMMER? ;-)
SimmonsJoe; Have you tried this technique of holding your thumb behind the slide of a semi-auto pistol to keep it from cycling? As a marksmanship instructor for over 20 years, I can tell you it is NOT a good idea.
The process you describe sounds like it would work great in the movies with an anemic round like .22 or .25, but I certainly wouldn't try it with a 9mm or .45ACP if you have plans to use that thumb anytime in the near future.
I have a nice small Kimber you can try it with, if you wish. I'll even clean the blood off my gun and provide 1st Aid and a ride to the hospital for X-rays (as long as you have your OWN health insurance).
SimmonsJoe; Have you tried this technique of holding your thumb behind the slide of a semi-auto pistol to keep it from cycling? As a marksmanship instructor for over 20 years, I can tell you it is NOT a good idea.
The process you describe sounds like it would work great in the movies with an anemic round like .22 or .25, but I certainly wouldn't try it with a 9mm or .45ACP if you have plans to use that thumb anytime in the near future.
I have a nice small Kimber you can try it with, if you wish. I'll even clean the blood off my gun and provide 1st Aid and a ride to the hospital for X-rays (as long as you have your OWN health insurance).