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Thread: Questions regarding terminology

  1. #1
    Regular Member Las Vegan's Avatar
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    Questions regarding terminology

    What are the "Conditions" of a Double Action Only pistol with no external safety lever when it has a round chambered or not? Conditions 2 and 3 seem closest in description, but not exactly.

    Also, please clarify if my understanding of the following Conditions is incorrect:

    • Condition 0 = round chambered, magazine seated, hammer cocked, safety off.
    • Condition 1 = round chambered, magazine seated, hammer cocked, safety on.
    • Condition 2 = round chambered, magazine seated, hammer down.
    • Condition 3 = empty chamber, magazine seated, hammer down.
    • Condition 4 = empty chamber, no magazine in well.



    Is there a different set of Conditions for revolvers?
    Last edited by Las Vegan; 07-18-2010 at 06:04 PM.
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    You're correct with the conditions you posted.
    As far as I know they're all the same except with DAO there is no condition 1.
    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back" ~Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly ep. "Our Mrs. Reynolds"

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    A Double Action Only pistol would more then likely fall under condition 2, for the following reasons:

    You stated there is no safety, so that takes away a few conditions.
    The hammer is always down, unless your pulling really hard on the trigger. eliminates a few more conditions.
    There is (or can be) a bullet in the chamber. again, more elimination.

    By the process of elimination, it is safe to assume that a DAO pistol will more then likely always be in condition 2, unless there is no round in the chamber.
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Condition 3

    No reason to have the hammer down.

    It is much easier to rack a 1911 slide with the hammer already cocked.

    These 'conditions' were specifically penned for the 1911. Using these terms for DAO will just cause confusion.

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    Regular Member Las Vegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    These 'conditions' were specifically penned for the 1911.
    That was my guess. The terms don't seem to apply well to many other types of handguns.
    "The right of self-defense never ceases. It is among the most sacred, and alike necessary to nations and to individuals."
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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Condition 0 is not generally accepted as a carry mode for the simple reason it's moronic. Revolvers have no conditions that I'm aware of--again carrying cocked when there is no safety is just plain stupid. Some pistols, like my Taurus 24/7 OSS can be carried cocked and locked (although striker fired) cocked and unlocked--still safe with the long SA take up on the trigger in most scenarios, DA (striker partly cocked) unlocked or locked. Or for some reason I can't conceive of, with a mag in but no round in the hole. The fact that it has these options--partial cocked striker, allows for the "second strike" capability just like a DA revolver. That was a factor in my choosing the 24/7 over the Glock, XD/M or M&P--which are all fine pistols but don't offer it.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    the conditions don't relate to carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Condition 0 is not generally accepted as a carry mode for the simple reason it's moronic. Revolvers have no conditions that I'm aware of--again carrying cocked when there is no safety is just plain stupid. Some pistols, like my Taurus 24/7 OSS can be carried cocked and locked (although striker fired) cocked and unlocked--still safe with the long SA take up on the trigger in most scenarios, DA (striker partly cocked) unlocked or locked. Or for some reason I can't conceive of, with a mag in but no round in the hole. The fact that it has these options--partial cocked striker, allows for the "second strike" capability just like a DA revolver. That was a factor in my choosing the 24/7 over the Glock, XD/M or M&P--which are all fine pistols but don't offer it.
    The conditions listed above are independent of carrying. Read OPs post again. It's about terminology not how to carry.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    The conditions listed above are independent of carrying. Read OPs post again. It's about terminology not how to carry.
    That wasn't my interpretation, if wrong apologies to the OP. The fact is that I've never heard "condition X" refer to anything other than 'carry' of a 1911/HP type of pistol. They don't apply to other types of pistols that I'm aware of, although some would be on point, which is why I mention my 24/7 OSS. DAOs, loaded, only have two options: safety on or safety off. And there is no reasonable need for the former.

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    I've only heard the conditions used in reference to carry. I guess you could say, "I drew the weapon, switched it from condition 1 to condition 0, and fired it." Or, you could say, "I drew the weapon, removed the safety, and fired." It just makes more sense to talk conditions when the weapon remains in that condition for a period of time, such as when you carry it.

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    DAO "Conditions"

    My understanding of the "Conditions" table and how is applies to other than SA pistols would be this:

    A: it has zero bearing for revolvers, unless you can find a SA only revolver with a safety...

    For DAO, the chart largely falls apart, As condition 0 and 1 are impossible.
    If however, you look at it for a DA/SA, the connections become more evident, just remember the idea of "condition of readiness" was less about what was cocked or safeties that were on, than on the readiness of the gun to be fired.


    Condition 0: still applies, hammer cocked, no safety. ("anyone who walks around in Condition 0 has the IQ to match")
    Condition 1: hammer down, no safety.(Ready to fire with one hand, no need to c*ck the hammer, but the long DA trigger pull acts in place of a manual safety - only manipulation of the trigger is required)
    Condition 2: Not applicable, since this is really Con 1 for a DA/SA or a DAO
    Condition 3: The same as for any other pistol - (the pertinant element of this condition is the chamber is empty)
    Condition 4: The same as for any other pistol (completely useless unless you need to hit them over the head with it)


    Just my $.02
    Last edited by RayBurton72; 07-23-2010 at 12:05 AM.

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