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Thread: Can Municipal Council Members be arrested for...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Can Municipal Council Members be arrested for...

    A serious question for those who know much, much more than I.....

    Since MCL 123.1102 became effective in 1991 could any municipal council members who vote in favor of enacting an ordinance that passes and is enacted due to their favorable votes after the MCL's effective date be arrested for committing a crime?

    Also, could any council that refuses to change it's illegal ordinance... or delays changing it for an inordinate amount of time... also be arrested?

    I'm wondering because when a citizen violates a law the citizen gets arrested... so what are the penalties for councils and/or council members?
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    A serious question for those who know much, much more than I.....

    Since MCL 123.1102 became effective in 1991 could any municipal council members who vote in favor of enacting an ordinance that passes and is enacted due to their favorable votes after the MCL's effective date be arrested for committing a crime?

    Also, could any council that refuses to change it's illegal ordinance... or delays changing it for an inordinate amount of time... also be arrested?

    I'm wondering because when a citizen violates a law the citizen gets arrested... so what are the penalties for councils and/or council members?
    Since there are no "penalties" associated with violation of MCL 123.1102, I am not sure that anything can be done on that front.

    HOWEVER, follow the "bouncing ball" through the following logic and see what you think (using Royal Oak as an example):

    1. City Commissioners get elected by We The People.

    2. City Commissioners take an Oath of Office administered by a MI Judge, Right Hand is raised and Left hand is on a Bible. This oath includes elements such as "serving the residents of Royal Oak", "Upholding the US Constitution", and "Upholding the MI Constitution".

    3. Since the oath is administered my an MI Judge, could abrogating the oath result in "contempt of court"?

    There are other methods to address specific City Commission Members such as Removal From Office under Robert's Rules or a Recall Election, depending upon what is allowable under City Ordinances. None of these are a "quick fix" to problem Commissioners, NOR SHOULD THEY BE.

    http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#20

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/so...2_211779_7.pdf

    Other thoughts???

  3. #3
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Since the oath is administered my an MI Judge, could abrogating the oath result in "contempt of court"?


    Other thoughts???
    Good luck getting a judge to sign a arrest warrent... Woomp woomp wammmmp...

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Since there are no "penalties" associated with violation of MCL 123.1102, I am not sure that anything can be done on that front.

    HOWEVER, follow the "bouncing ball" through the following logic and see what you think (using Royal Oak as an example):

    1. City Commissioners get elected by We The People.

    2. City Commissioners take an Oath of Office administered by a MI Judge, Right Hand is raised and Left hand is on a Bible. This oath includes elements such as "serving the residents of Royal Oak", "Upholding the US Constitution", and "Upholding the MI Constitution".

    3. Since the oath is administered my an MI Judge, could abrogating the oath result in "contempt of court"?

    There are other methods to address specific City Commission Members such as Removal From Office under Robert's Rules or a Recall Election, depending upon what is allowable under City Ordinances. None of these are a "quick fix" to problem Commissioners, NOR SHOULD THEY BE.

    http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#20

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/so...2_211779_7.pdf

    Other thoughts???
    Remember the law doesn't say that can't make an ordinance concerning firearms, just that they can't do anything other prohibit/allow what the state does.
    If they do exceed state law, though, they probably can't be held liable... they have immunity as commission members, especially if they have an attorney telling them they can.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    so are you saying they can:
    1. enact an ordanance that makes it a crime to carry a concealed weapon in say,,,,flint and then:
    2. tell there Chief of police to arrest any person found with a valid CPL inside city limits,,,and then:
    3. smile, laugh and giggle like drunken school girls at the legal system because they can't be held liable for there stupidity.

    sorry drunken school girls, for defameing you, even drunk blonde freshmen would think this through and conclude that its a poor way to stay in office.

    this isn't ALL BAD! there would be a lot of new shiny bling blang being sported by those "my rights were violated, wackos with guns"

    and we all know there are cops who would do this! at least the first few,,,,,

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    so are you saying they can:
    1. enact an ordanance that makes it a crime to carry a concealed weapon in say,,,,flint and then:
    2. tell there Chief of police to arrest any person found with a valid CPL inside city limits,,,and then:
    3. smile, laugh and giggle like drunken school girls at the legal system because they can't be held liable for there stupidity.

    sorry drunken school girls, for defameing you, even drunk blonde freshmen would think this through and conclude that its a poor way to stay in office.

    this isn't ALL BAD! there would be a lot of new shiny bling blang being sported by those "my rights were violated, wackos with guns"

    and we all know there are cops who would do this! at least the first few,,,,,
    I am beginning to think that yes, council members cannot be held accountable in any way except at election time when they may.. or may not... be reelected. Or an expensive and time consuming recall must be mounted.

    As for paying out settlements or monetary judgments ... why should they care? It all comes out of the taxpayers pocket, not theirs.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    ... http://www.robertsrules.com ... Other thoughts???
    It is not likely that RRO have any force in law, indeed, there is probably some other legislative protocol named in your law. RRO is specifically written for social clubs. Read its prefatory material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    ...As for paying out settlements or monetary judgments ... why should they care? It all comes out of the taxpayers pocket, not theirs.
    Beyond that, they probably have the equivalent of 'directors and officers' insurance.

  9. #9
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    It is not likely that RRO have any force in law, indeed, there is probably some other legislative protocol named in your law. RRO is specifically written for social clubs. Read its prefatory material.
    Probably correct.

    FYI - In Royal Oak, they do specifically reference Roberts Rules of Order within the Commission Rules of Procedure as being utilized.

  10. #10
    Regular Member American Boy With a Gun's Avatar
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    Can Municipal Council Members be arrested for...

    Stupidity? Unfortunately not. Same goes for cops, feds, etc...

    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." -- Samuel Adams, 1776

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject

  11. #11
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    note to all dictators, terrorists, and other assorted nuts jobs, a**holes, losers, artards, and dirtbags!

    YES YOU CAN! you can do whatever you want, you say "no i can't, there are laws and whatnot"

    YES YOU CAN! just run for a city council! there are NO LEGAL REPERCUSSIONS FOR YOUR LACK OF ANY MORAL FIBER WHAT SO EVER!

    enact any rule you would like!

    for examlpe we know those legal law abidings gun toteing, NRA MOC MGO MCGRO and so on and so forth have these stupid beliefs that THEY HAVE A "RIGHT" to protect themselves!
    wanna, get one over on them???

    RUN FOR CITY COUNCIL and just make them the criminal! HA HA HA! screw you gun nuts! we can make them illegal, NEARLY instantly, AND WE USE THE COPS TO DO IT! what the !@#$%^&*( you say??

    YESSSS thank you law its finally on our side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    as a council person just enact the criminal gun toter transfer law! whats that you say???

    Civil rights? HA! as long as you are in office YOU CAN do whatever you like, threaten a few council memeber families. there really shouldn't be any problem there! get them on your side, then enact your law, or ordanance or what ever,, well have the city lawyer who by the way will work for you to make it a really good screwing! to those gun nuts!

    have your ordanance say every registered gun toter/owner must turn in there guns to the local criminals. if they say no, send the cop swat teams to take'em, this works 2 ways!

    those gun owners and swat cops will kill each other off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    THEN! buy some waider boots, there will be a lot of "blood in the streets"

    and walk over the bodies and pick up the guns left behind, have some sheeple do it, you will not want to get sullied by the lower classes after all, and they be far to scared to say no or defy you in anyway,,,,,,




    yes this is a bit extreme, but you guys get the idea of how stupid it is. council members should be held to a standard, if the absolute worst they just don't get to stay a peasant herder anymore, then how can you punish the bastards! i must say i am more than a little pissed off!

    this is the problem with all our goverment! thosed amoral A**holes get to do ANYTHING! murder, rape, kiddy porn, and what happens to them, maybe a few week in club fed, a little censorship, and they return to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    REALLY,
    this is a learned behavior! they find out at the lowest level of goverment that, they can get away with doing crap like this,.

    they might have gotten into office with good intentions, then found out how you have to give a little to get a little, a little moral waiver here, will get you a little happiness there. then that continues until they have litterally gone to the darkside of the force!!!!!!

    a lot of moral holocausts, have started with THE BEST OF INTENTIONS! at the personal level and at the world level!

    c'mon people this is absolute BULLS***!

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