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Thread: Might wanna change your views on front sight training...

  1. #1
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Might wanna change your views on front sight training...

    Check out todays Front Sight blog,he goes off about how concealed means concealed,making open carry seem horrible and even deadly.

    here is his post from today.

    One of the great benefits of having trained hundreds of thousands of students from all across the country is that when something happens, there is usually a Front Sight trained student in the area of the incident, who can give us a better account of the situation than the media.
    This week I have a letter from a Front Sight student who shops regularly at the Costco store where a concealed carry permit holder was recently shot by police.
    The point of this blog is not to cast any opinion negatively or positively on the police or the CCW holder in this tragic incident, but rather emphasize that when you carry a concealed weapon, there are two, very basic, yet extremely important rules you must follow:

    1. Concealed Carry means KEEP YOUR GUN CONCEALED. If you do not keep the gun concealed and mistakenly allow the general public to get a glimpse of your gun, don't be surprised if the police are called about a "man with a gun." This is not a good situation. Bad things can happen as a result of poor management of a gun that is supposed to be concealed.

    2. When carrying a concealed handgun, YOU MUST BE A MODEL CITIZEN. You can not afford situations in which you might lose your temper and speak or act in a less than model citizen manner. You must always carry yourself in a calm, cool, and collected demeanor when you are armed. Unless confronted with immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury, when carrying a concealed weapon there is no room words or actions that would cause other people to call the police.


    <removed news story and the rest of the blog,rather pointless,if you want to read it anyways,the link is below>

    http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sig...-it-concealed/
    Last edited by lil_freak_66; 07-19-2010 at 07:50 PM. Reason: removed pointless news story
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  2. #2
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like the SS executed this man. Always heard Vegas cops were scumbags. This does little to refute that reputation. They probably were pissed off that they had missed their quotas of shaking down prostitues that day. Has nothing to do with open carry--or concealed carry. Has to do with the continued examples of cops that are rogues and belong in prison. And the system that protects them.

  3. #3
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    i was referring to what ignatius said about concealed carry above the news story,the news story simply came along with his post,which i will remove after this post.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    Might wanna change your views on front sight training...

    personally i would be interested in reading the whole story and see what the reasons the LEO's gave for shooting the Man ( love a good fiction story )

    as to the opinons of the on CC and OC given were kinda ignorant and uninformed.

    just my thoughts i am not an expert on anything.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    link to blog added to OP.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  6. #6
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The news has reported that the police have the Costco security tapes, but it appears there was a "malfunction" with the recording equipment, and so they are having to send the tapes to a forensic lab to try and reconstruct the data...

    http://www.8newsnow.com/global/story.asp?s=12816105

    Isn't that convenient...

    Apparently Costco uses the same surveillance system they use in College Park MD. Maybe they should call Lt. Joanne Ardovini--she seems to be pretty well-qualified for dealing with incriminating surveillance tapes...

    Perhaps Mr. Scott's attorneys should call Eric Rachner in Seattle WA. He seems to be VERY qualified to get to the bottom of issues like this:

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/418746_video.html?Dsfa

    How is it that every rat-hole convenience store in every poverty-ridden neighborhood in America can have perfectly working security cams to catch photo-quality images every time a crackhead tries to hold them up, but every time a LEA is involved in a high-profile public shooting, the state of the art surveillance gear of a multi-million dollar, multi-national corporation, or a municipality, or their own cruisers seems to be on the fritz?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I can't read Mr. Piazza's mind but what I take from his comments is that if you conceal, make sure it stays concealed. I can see where some sheeple would be concerned if they caught a glimpse of a concealed weapon, especially if the CCer is carrying Mexican or Gangsta style, or does not 'look' like a plainclothes LEO or model citizen. Ocing gives a different starting point for perception.
    Last edited by paramedic70002; 07-20-2010 at 09:20 AM.
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    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I can't read Mr. Piazza's mind but what I take from his comments is that if you conceal, make sure it stays concealed. I can see where some sheeple would be concerned if they caught a glimpse of a concealed weapon, especially if the CCer is carrying Mexican or Gangsta style, or does not 'look' like a plainclothes LEO or model citizen. Ocing gives a different starting point for perception.
    I agree. He's basically saying that if you conceal, keep it concealed. I don't think he was bashing OC with his statement
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    The comments were specifically about concealed carry. Neither comment was intended to, nor did they have the result of, demeaning open carry.
    Which of the comments did you disagree with?
    1. If it's concealed, keep it concealed.
    2. If you carry a gun, be a model citizen.

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    Concealed means Concealed

    I can't speak for him, but when I go into my local Costco I conceal carry, because I don't want to be asked to leave for OCing. My gun is covered by my shirt, or in my front pocket printing real bad some days, but it is concealed.
    If I am at Home Depot, or at a local Super market, I OC with no worries.
    I deep conceal carry at sporting events, because I like to yelled and hoop and holler and call the referee names, but that is just me.
    When I OC I am cool and calm and I don't yell at my kids, they love it when I OC in public! lol
    Utah Certified Concealed Firearms Permit Instructor
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Never liked FrontSight anyway...

    I sent for one of FrontSight's brochures and DVDs and the first thing I saw was that Dr. Ignatius looks as if he gets up in the morning and tells himself he looks just like Magnum, PI. If ego was helium, he could resurrect the Hindenburg.
    I suppose if one were expecting to engage in full-go running firefights with armored, professional gunslingers as opponents the course might be useful. But there are lots of NRA-certified instructors who can teach a basic practical pistol course for far less, and you won't have to spend mega-bux to spend three days to a week in the stinkin' desert, either.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexcabbie View Post
    I sent for one of FrontSight's brochures and DVDs and the first thing I saw was that Dr. Ignatius looks as if he gets up in the morning and tells himself he looks just like Magnum, PI. If ego was helium, he could resurrect the Hindenburg.
    Not to mention that Piazza is a Scientologist...

    And his corporation has been the subject of numerous lawsuits regarding investor fraud...

    And when you go there for training, most of your free time on the first trip is like what you get on one of those "free timeshare weekend" deals, with a non-stop high-pressure sales pitch to become a "contributing member"...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-20-2010 at 05:15 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexcabbie View Post
    I sent for one of FrontSight's brochures and DVDs and the first thing I saw was that Dr. Ignatius looks as if he gets up in the morning and tells himself he looks just like Magnum, PI. If ego was helium, he could resurrect the Hindenburg.
    I suppose if one were expecting to engage in full-go running firefights with armored, professional gunslingers as opponents the course might be useful. But there are lots of NRA-certified instructors who can teach a basic practical pistol course for far less, and you won't have to spend mega-bux to spend three days to a week in the stinkin' desert, either.
    Define "practical"?
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

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    Quote Originally Posted by flintlock tom View Post
    Which of the comments did you disagree with?
    1. If it's concealed, keep it concealed.
    2. If you carry a gun, be a model citizen.
    I don't disagree with the sentiment of the second statement, but by including it in his comments, he implies that Erik Scott was being something other than a model citizen. This tells me that Piazza skimmed over the news reports, and didn't see the numerous witness statements that contradict the 911 transcript and the police spokespinner.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Never been a fan of Piazza but I don't think he is bashing OC here.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAopencarry View Post
    SNIP I don't think [Piazza] is bashing OC here.
    Me, neither. I think he is just stuck in the usual CC = concealed mentality that was so common before OCDO came along. It just means we still have work to do.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-21-2010 at 01:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_freak_66 View Post
    C,he goes off about how concealed means concealed,making open carry seem horrible and even deadly.
    well with the LEO's we have today, having a gun is CC or OC. They all just look for a reason to screw with you, or shoot you, poor bastard just wanted some gatoraid, too bad the cops were sippin hateraid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Not to mention that Piazza is a Scientologist...

    And his corporation has been the subject of numerous lawsuits regarding investor fraud...

    And when you go there for training, most of your free time on the first trip is like what you get on one of those "free timeshare weekend" deals, with a non-stop high-pressure sales pitch to become a "contributing member"...
    I'm sorry, remind us again what course you were there for? When did you experience this "non-stop high-pressure sales pitch?"

    I was there for the 4-day Tactical Handgun Course, and except for one optional lunch session (presented while you were eating lunch), no one ever spoke to me, or anyone in my presence, about joining or becoming a member. Not once. The lunch session was the only--got that? The only--presentation scheduled during the 4-day course. Hardly a high-pressure sales pitch.

    The guy does fill my mailbox with junk on the subject, but I have a trashcan close by. And the training is on a par with what I experienced at Gunsite and SigSauer Academy.

    Now, back to the OP. I don't think Borat was ragging on OC as much as he was advising you to avoid "inadvertent" flashing if your goal is to conceal. Oh, yeah, and be a model citizen. Not exactly radical concepts.

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarlboroLts5150 View Post
    Define "practical"?
    "Practical' as in the Police Practical Pistol Course used to qualify LEOs. Two-handed, strong hand, off hand, strong-hand barricade, off-hand barricade, etcetera.

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    You would think they would instead point out that their training prepares you to survive a
    multiple armed thug situation instead of taking up one side without any evidence.
    If they didn't find the gun till after they took the body away I would say it was concealed pretty good.

    But it can't be all their fault, a C- student called it in first, they should have pulled his class scores
    before spouting off. But hey if shooting your mouth off without the facts is good enough for the white house
    it should be for everyone else.

  21. #21
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    I have never been to Front Sight, and don't ever intend to go. I do, however, talk to a lot of people and know personally a fair number who have been, including one "life member." Their stories and impressions vary, but most are negative.

    From what they have told me, two big problems stand out:
    1. Instruction inconsistent. Some instructors good, some terrible - and usually far too many students per instructor.

    2. Far, far too much "cop" stuff taught. Aggression, rather than defensive tactics.

    I have a free certificate for the 4 day handgun course. I'll be glad to give it to the first person who sends me a PM. I'll even spring for the stamp.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    I took the front sight quiz. The only answers I got right were carrying a gun in my waistband, using a 500 s&w for defense, shooting until the threat is no longer moving, and using a saiga shotgun with a 20 round drum for a home defense weapon.

  23. #23
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VFORVENDETTA View Post
    Piazza is a chiropractor......if that doesn't tell you he's a quack then i don't know what will.
    Oh really? And you base this broad condemnation on??? Such generalizations serve no good purpose.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VFORVENDETTA View Post
    Piazza is a chiropractor......if that doesn't tell you he's a quack then i don't know what will.
    Now, folks are participating in chiropractor-bashing!

    Generalizations to entire groups of people are despicable.

  25. #25
    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexcabbie View Post
    "Practical' as in the Police Practical Pistol Course used to qualify LEOs. Two-handed, strong hand, off hand, strong-hand barricade, off-hand barricade, etcetera.
    All standing still, shooting at stationary targets. As I thought.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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