View Poll Results: Which will happen first?

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  • Wisconsin will allow the concealed carry of handguns.

    46 86.79%
  • The Federal government will create a nationwide concealed carry law

    4 7.55%
  • I don't know

    3 5.66%
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Thread: Wisconsin CCW

  1. #1
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    Wisconsin CCW

    Who will win

  2. #2
    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Personally, I am an advocate for Constitutional carry.

    Setting up a cumbersome, bureaucracy for CCW, fees, licensing etc. will be expensive and unnecessary. Just further intrusion into our lives and privacy. No one has any business knowing whether I am carrying or not. More over, this is a back door registration and I definitely do not like that.

    To perpetuate, let alone embrace these infringements on the 2A serve only to mollify a cowardly governor and house. Appeasements do not work. Nor does compromise. When you start with everything, the 'Constitution of the United States of America', and compromise, you lose.

    Any compromise is a step backward. Compromise is appeasement. Laws, any laws pertaining to firearms, in particular firearms for self-defense, are only binding on those who will choose to obey them. These laws have no hold on criminals and do not serve as a deterrent of any kind.

    And I believe those who would throw their arms up in the air and say things like, we will never see this or that are creating their own limited futures. We can have everything and we can have it soon by working with every breath towards a Constitutional, non- compromised bill.

    We must get together, present a mighty front, A united front. Be bold. Say it like it is. And quit tip toeing around these [&^$*&(%] liberals. Kick them to the curb. If they do not do as we demand; please remember, they are our servants, kick them to the curb.

    What we want is not radical, scary or dangerous. It is Constitutional. It is as American as it gets. The radicals, the scary, dangerous ones are the ones who want to restrict your rights. Who want to take your guns from you. These people are un-American. These people are the ones who should be looking for a new job in November.

  3. #3
    Regular Member AdamXD's Avatar
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    I agree, haven't Chicago's crime rates proven anything? The same thing happened with The Prohibition in the 20's. Crime sky rocketed because alcohol was illegal. Coincidentally enough, Chicago was the center for rum-runners and crime syndicates. The only difference is, alcohol can't kill you instantly. Guns can.

    If a nation wide gun-ban goes into effect, this country will bleed worse than it did in the Civil War. From crime and from citizen retaliation. It won't be long till there's a revolt.

  4. #4
    McX
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    we support constitutional carry here too.

  5. #5
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    I do believe Wisconsin will see CCW and it would not surprise me if the Federal Government does not create a CCW law as well. That will more than likely be the answer to states who chose to ignore the advice of the supreme courts.

  6. #6
    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    I believe Wisconsin will go ccw. Anything short of constitutional carry will be infringing on our rights. Hardballer is right, it is time to send a message to Washington that we have had enough, they should listen to us or we should kick them out. I do however have a question. Is it the federal governments place to pass a law allowing ccw for the nation, isn't that a decision that should be left up to the states?

  7. #7
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Will Illinois beat WI to concealed carry?

    I think concealed carry is coming to both IL and WI in the near future. Which state will be the final holdout?

  8. #8
    McX
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    lockman, i can answer that: The Great State of Chicago!

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    That's a question I've been pondering myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    I believe Wisconsin will go ccw. Anything short of constitutional carry will be infringing on our rights. Hardballer is right, it is time to send a message to Washington that we have had enough, they should listen to us or we should kick them out. I do however have a question. Is it the federal governments place to pass a law allowing ccw for the nation, isn't that a decision that should be left up to the states?
    I believe in most cases it is right that it should be left up to the states, at least whether or not to regulate most things except in the case of rights or privileges and immunitites of the people. I think a few parts of the constitution are interesting in this equation, namely Article IV Section 1
    Article IV - The States

    Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others
    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
    AND
    14A
    1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 07-20-2010 at 03:08 PM.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    A Party on the Day

    I have lived most of my life in WI and also hope that WI gets Constitutional Carry - and also issues permits. Previous attempts in Congress to get a Federal CCW law have failed due to reasons of State's Rights. Unless the nine wise ones come up with a ruling that addresses this, I do not have much hope for a Federal CCW Statute.

    Thus, the reason I support Constitutional Carry AND a permit option is best demonstrated by looking at Alaska (and Arizona after 7-29-10). Both kept their ability to issue permits to Citizens who want them and thus those Citizens can carry in other States that recognize AK and AZ. Vermont has Constitutional Concealed Carry, but no permit system. Most States will not issue a non-resident permit to people from VT because of this, but they would issue to a Wisconsin citizen because WI has no concealed carry. (Example: Utah permit)

    I moved to Utah from Walworth County, but on the day Wisconsin gets concealed carry, I am packing up the car and coming to join the party. After 1-1-11 when Iowa changes their law and recognizes all out-of-state permits, I can go all the way back while carrying (if I go North in Iowa and avoid Illinois).

    Jim

    Utah CFP, Nevada CFP, Pennsylvania CFP, Florida CFP (hopefully someday, Wisconsin CFP)

  11. #11
    Regular Member Gordo's Avatar
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    I support constitutional carry as well. I would rather have all the stupid restrictions on open carry gone before we had some kind of permit. Thats one thing this group has changed about me. I don't think anyone should have to pay for a right..... It's already been paid for.
    Former Corporal of Marines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordo View Post
    It's already been paid for.
    Oh, very good! Paid forward with the blood of patriots.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordo View Post
    I don't think anyone should have to pay for a right..... It's already been paid for.
    Well said!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  14. #14
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Isn't politics wonderful? The liberals don't care about states rights when it comes to Obamacare, but the second a bill which would force states to recognize permits from other states (constitutional in my opinion under Article 4, sec 1) they claim it violates states rights? The republicans do the same with abortion, they want a federal ban, which is ok with them, while forgetting about states rights.

  15. #15
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    (hopefully someday, Wisconsin CFP)
    Hopefully not! If we let the camels nose under the tent flap (setting up a bureaucracy to issue CC permits), they will want more and more power.

    OC/CC at will, no permit required. If you want to CC in another state, get a UT or other out of state permit.

    I spend 99% of my time in WI and don't want the expense or hassle to get a permit.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    I believe Wisconsin will go ccw. Anything short of constitutional carry will be infringing on our rights. Hardballer is right, it is time to send a message to Washington that we have had enough, they should listen to us or we should kick them out. I do however have a question. Is it the federal governments place to pass a law allowing ccw for the nation, isn't that a decision that should be left up to the states?
    It should be left up to the states, but when you have states such as Wisconsin and Illinois who fail to uphold the constitutional rights of the people then the feds should step in and force them to make it right. That is just my .02

  17. #17
    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    It should be left up to the states, but when you have states such as Wisconsin and Illinois who fail to uphold the constitutional rights of the people then the feds should step in and force them to make it right. That is just my .02
    I have had a chance to talk with some truckers and they wish the whole nation went ccw with the same laws, they find the inconsistant laws imposible to keep track of. The sad thing is "shall not be infringed" seems confusing to most states.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    The sad thing is "shall not be infringed" seems confusing to most states.
    No. Until recently it has not applied to the States. Even now its incorporation and application to the States is just starting.

    But you - and we - knew that from our primary school civics lessons. It's just more fun and stylish to ignore those lessons.

  19. #19
    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Well said Doug.

  20. #20
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    McDonald v Chicago is new territory

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    No. Until recently it has not applied to the States. Even now its incorporation and application to the States is just starting.

    But you - and we - knew that from our primary school civics lessons. It's just more fun and stylish to ignore those lessons.
    Doug is absolutely correct. Heller v District of Columbia set the stage, but only applied to Federal enclaves. It did set the stage for carry in Federal Parks. McDonald v Chicago "incorporated" the 2nd Amendment into State and local jurisdictions. This is new territory in US Jurisprudence and just as the Civil Rights Act caused Alabama and other Southern States to try to find a way to circumvent the law, McDonald has caused Hisshonor the Mayor of Chicago to enact onerous restrictions that are actually actions that go beyond what the nine wise ones said when they wrote about "reasonable restrictions".

    The nine wise ones are correct. Some reasonable restrictions must be in place. A good example would be that a mentally ill person who has a history of or who has threatened to do harm to himself or others should be restricted from owning firearms - at least until he/she is ruled safe and sane. Part of me does not believe that all felons should be barred from handgun ownership. White collar criminals committed their crimes with a pen (or computer). The other part of me believes they should be barred. Bernie Madoff seriously harmed the whole Nation and his crime was one of the straws on the Camel's back that caused the Great Recession. Felons convicted of crimes while armed are another matter. They have already demonstrated that they are "wolves" and thus cannot be trusted with a firearm.

    We may sit back and tell ourselves and each other that the 2nd Amendment is obvious. But, when you look at US History, the Nation did not behave that way. Southern States enacted laws prohibiting Blacks from owning firearms. Cities, such as Chicago and New York, prohibited Citizens of any color, including whites, from owning firearms. Other cities created onerous firearm registration policies. Illinois still has such a policy with its' Firearm Owner Identification Card. It has only been recently that the tide of the battle has turned toward a realization of what the Founding Fathers envisioned. They wanted an armed population so that the population could hunt, defend their property, and keep the Government honest.

    So my friends, there is a long battle ahead. Ridiculous laws such as Wisconsin's 1000 foot perimeter Gun Free Zone must be defeated. Utah allows concealed carry on school campuses and there have been no blood-baths. There is even a strong open carry student movement at all Universities (except BYU - a Private School that has the right to restrict carry because it is Private Property). I will point out that since Utah began allowing concealed carry or open carry at Universities, crime rates are going down. (Big Surprise!) The gang bangers are better behaved in middle and high schools because they do not know which teachers might be carrying.

    The Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s gives us a valuable lesson. Blacks had to use every means at their disposal to obtain what was obvious to them, that they were equal. We must do likewise to convince a Nation full of anti-gun liberals that our Civil Right to protect ourselves, our families, and our homes "shall not be infringed". We must convince them that in the end, everyone will live better. We must convince them that even if they do not personally choose to own a firearm, the fact that you and I do will make them safer.

    This is a Public Relations battle. The liberals do not want to hear fact or history. They would rather be right than know the truth. So we must make our case and make it convincingly; one liberal at a time. A good start would be for each of us to seek out a liberal anti-gun friend and invite him/her to the range. Give them something of small caliber and encourage them. Teach them how to hold the handgun or rifle and extort the values of Sport Shooting. Explain that you practice not because you want to kill somebody, but because if you ever do need to defend your home or person, you want to be sure that no innocent bystanders, neighbors, or your own children are harmed by mistake.

    NEVER GIVE UP ! !
    Last edited by jpm84092; 07-25-2010 at 07:32 PM. Reason: spelling errors
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  21. #21
    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardballer View Post
    Personally, I am an advocate for Constitutional carry.

    Setting up a cumbersome, bureaucracy for CCW, fees, licensing etc. will be expensive and unnecessary. Just further intrusion into our lives and privacy. No one has any business knowing whether I am carrying or not. More over, this is a back door registration and I definitely do not like that.

    To perpetuate, let alone embrace these infringements on the 2A serve only to mollify a cowardly governor and house. Appeasements do not work. Nor does compromise. When you start with everything, the 'Constitution of the United States of America', and compromise, you lose.

    Any compromise is a step backward. Compromise is appeasement. Laws, any laws pertaining to firearms, in particular firearms for self-defense, are only binding on those who will choose to obey them. These laws have no hold on criminals and do not serve as a deterrent of any kind.

    And I believe those who would throw their arms up in the air and say things like, we will never see this or that are creating their own limited futures. We can have everything and we can have it soon by working with every breath towards a Constitutional, non- compromised bill.

    We must get together, present a mighty front, A united front. Be bold. Say it like it is. And quit tip toeing around these [&^$*&(%] liberals. Kick them to the curb. If they do not do as we demand; please remember, they are our servants, kick them to the curb.

    What we want is not radical, scary or dangerous. It is Constitutional. It is as American as it gets. The radicals, the scary, dangerous ones are the ones who want to restrict your rights. Who want to take your guns from you. These people are un-American. These people are the ones who should be looking for a new job in November.
    x 1000 to that. But how would the bureaucrats ever get their money out of that??

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