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Thread: Legal Defense Fund For Jesus Gonzalez

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Exclamation Legal Defense Fund For Jesus Gonzalez

    As you all know, Jesus is facing a daunting legal bill. A legal defense fund has been setup at Chase bank.

    There are three ways you can contribute to his legal defense fund:

    1) Go to your local Chase branch and make a deposit into account # 2963567421

    2) Mail your contribution to ANY chase branch and reference account # 2963567421

    3) Send contributions via PayPal to valcaraz@papermc.com

    Thanks!


    John

  2. #2
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for this info John. It will be an honor to send out some funding for Jesus. He is a great guy, and I know he can use our help.

  3. #3
    McX
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    Excellent news! Glad to hear it!
    Last edited by McX; 07-20-2010 at 09:16 PM.

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Done... United we stand, divided we fall. A little now could help a lot later.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Will do!!!!!
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 07-21-2010 at 01:45 AM.

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    I've met and had several conversations with Jesus and although I regard him highly I'm wondering whether donations are appropriate or not. I guess every person has to make that decision themselves.

    My questions are:

    Is this even an Open Carry issue? Sure, Jesus was OCing when he was allegedly attacked but was deadly force necessary in this case?

    I know he could never come on here and explain his actions as it would be detrimental at his trial but as someone who was found not guilty of felonies and misdemeanors after a two day jury handgun related trial I can state matter of fact that I have no doubt that there was another course of action besides shooting one man dead and critically injuring another.

    For myself, I believe that I will wait until the verdict comes in and then help bail him out if found not guilty.

    Also I am VERY sure WI Carry will not want to be involved with fund collections as it would be an accounting nightmare for one thing and I'm not sure how involved they will want to get in this case. Neither would I expect WI Carry to get involved if I committed felonies and possible murders.

    Please send any donations in the manner that John described in the OP:

    "There are three ways you can contribute to his legal defense fund:

    1) Go to your local Chase branch and make a deposit into account # 2963567421

    2) Mail your contribution to ANY chase branch and reference account # 2963567421

    3) Send contributions via PayPal to valcaraz@papermc.com"
    Last edited by Spartacus; 07-20-2010 at 09:22 PM.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the info!

    Chase Branch LOCATOR
    Last edited by Jason in WI; 07-21-2010 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Added Locator link

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    I find it amazing that everyone here claims to OCW for self defense and then when a member actually uses their firearm for what they believe to be self defense they are criticized for their actions.

    Makes me think that many here only carry so others will look at them. Must be an attention thing.

    I have no doubts that Jesus believed he was doing what he needed to do. If you do not have the courage to use the firearm when needed then why even carry it? So that criminals can take it away from you?

    I just love it when the elitists show their faces. Their two faces that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    If you do not have the courage to use the firearm when needed then why even carry it?
    Obviously we need training to prevent being fools by rushing into situations where angelic pro-ccw trainers might fear to go.

    We need to take care that the standards of a 'reasonable man' legally armed citizen is not raised so high that only the elite among us are reasonably politically correct.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 07-21-2010 at 11:45 AM.

  10. #10
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Aside from the fact that we all wish Jesus a positive outcome from this ordeal, the other reason that donations ARE appropriate is simple:

    - As believers in the Constitution, we all agree that a person is entitled to a fair trial.
    - In our justice system, you do NOT get a fair trial unless you have good representation which costs $$$.
    - It is in all our best interests for SELF-DEFENSE cases to be presented by the best legal team possible.
    - Therefore, by donating to the legal defense fund, you are both insuring that Jesus gets a fair trial as well as working toward not getting an unfairly anti-self-defense ruling that will impact public opinion and future cases.


    John



    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    I've met and had several conversations with Jesus and although I regard him highly I'm wondering whether donations are appropriate or not. I guess every person has to make that decision themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    I find it amazing that everyone here claims to OCW for self defense and then when a member actually uses their firearm for what they believe to be self defense they are criticized for their actions.

    Makes me think that many here only carry so others will look at them. Must be an attention thing.

    I have no doubts that Jesus believed he was doing what he needed to do. If you do not have the courage to use the firearm when needed then why even carry it? So that criminals can take it away from you?

    I just love it when the elitists show their faces. Their two faces that is.
    It doesn't matter to the law one little bit that Jesus "believed" in what he did. The law is impartial and will judge him according to the facts, not the "belief" that what he was doing was right.

    And I've had about enough of this "elitist" crap. We are all just regular guys who want CC in WI. I carry every day/everywhere I can and would not hesitate to use my sidearm ONLY to counter deadly force. Making the proper split second decisions are mainly the result of proper training, instinct and the ability to think on your toes. Guys that stand still shooting at paper targets will have problems making good decisions without proper training.

    John, with all due respect a homicide trial is at the least a five day jury trial and will probably cost in the neighborhood of $50,000. No lawyer will touch this case without a $10,000 retainer or full payment up front. I have no doubt that Jesus already has a court appointed attorney and all he can hope for is that the attorney has a lot of experience in litigation.

  12. #12
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    I have no doubt that Jesus already has a court appointed attorney
    He has a private attorney.

  13. #13
    McX
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    Hmmmm. Gentlemen! the thread was set up to advise a source for contribution to a legal defense fund. we must debate the rest within our hearts and heads. not here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    He has a private attorney.
    Then he has money already.

    I know how this works and no lawyer alive would touch this case with a ten foot pole without cash-in-hand.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Then he has money already.

    I know how this works and no lawyer alive would touch this case with a ten foot pole without cash-in-hand.
    To be technical, the attorney he has was a Public Defender, and has since transitioned to private practice. So..... I'm not sure if she took it with her and is doing it pro-bono or on retainer or what. Also, even though 'you know how this works', it could be that she only has a down payment of some sort, maybe a substantial one, and that it will be eaten up and need more before it's done.

    Look, if you don't want to donate. don't! Just don't make excuses.
    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 07-21-2010 at 05:28 PM.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Then he has money already.

    I know how this works and no lawyer alive would touch this case with a ten foot pole without cash-in-hand.
    And your point is?
    I can not say for sure, but I would guess his moms house was used to get the needed cash up. A home that took 30 years to pay off could now be at risk. I for one will send him any cash that I can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    And your point is?
    I can not say for sure, but I would guess his moms house was used to get the needed cash up. A home that took 30 years to pay off could now be at risk. I for one will send him any cash that I can.
    Would be interesting if the shoe was on the other foot to see if he would want us contributing to his fund.
    It is becoming apparent that we have brothers at arms and brothers at arms length.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    Would be interesting if the shoe was on the other foot to see if he would want us contributing to his fund.
    It is becoming apparent that we have brothers at arms and brothers at arms length.
    I would have better sense than to ask for financial help if I shot someone.



    Aaron, I have nice rat hole around here somewhere if you want to throw your cash in.

    Paul, you seem a man of common sense. Could you suppose for a moment that I know more details about this case than I am letting on for the good of the forum?

  19. #19
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Paul, you seem a man of common sense. Could you suppose for a moment that I know more details about this case than I am letting on for the good of the forum?
    Thanks!!!!

    That is fine but this thread is specifically about how to donate to Jesus's defense fund. I'm not sure what the benefit to anyone is to say 'I know more than you and therefore will not donate'. Fine. Don't.

    This thread is specifically on topic.

    Jesus was arrested for doing something while OC'ing.

    I do not believe that he asked for donations, I believe this thread was asked for by numerous members of OCDO so John did it.

    The judicial system will hopefully determine the facts and the proper outcome will be reached.

    I do was not there and have not talked to Jesus about the case so I know NOTHING more than what is in the public record. However, I believe Jesus has the right for the best defense possible. If my pittance can help, no matter the eventual outcome, I am OK with it.

    It is, after all, our individual moneys we would be contributing and each of us needs to make a decision using the data available to us to determine if we do it and if so, how much.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    ... for the good of the forum?
    A unique claim, even for a claim of 'special knowledge'. It is related to the fallacies of 'ad hominem' (that everyone else is unfit to know the 'special knowledge') and 'argument from authority', the legitimacy of which is not established or concurred.

    Read the Nizkor.org Project. Don't be enslaved by ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    A unique claim, even for a claim of 'special knowledge'. It is related to the fallacies of 'ad hominem' (that everyone else is unfit to know the 'special knowledge') and 'argument from authority', the legitimacy of which is not established or concurred.
    I am hardly and "authority" and as usual your thoughts don't apply Doug. How does it feel to live your online life grasping at straws and misapplying logic?


    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Jesus was arrested for doing something while OC'ing.
    Then by this logic if somebody wears a gun while molesting a child you would support them as well?

    I will however get out of this thread now. I simply wanted to provide a caution to those who were riding the "Save Jesus" bandwagon and tell them that he may be a lost cause, not because of a lack of quality counsel but because of inappropriate actions.

  22. #22
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Then by this logic if somebody wears a gun while molesting a child you would support them as well?
    No, I guess I could of been clearer. It is on topic because, even though I don't specifically know the details, I can see myself in this situation. The outcome of this will provide me guidance on how I should react when confronted by a BG. Or, it could lead to pushing for a change in the self-defense laws.

    I guess it's worth the money to me to see how this turns out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    because of inappropriate actions.
    In your opinion. A jury of his peers will decide this.

  23. #23
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    Well this is an interesting quandary now isn't it?

    You can't give monies unless you have more information, I assume this is based on your existing information coming from various press sources like the rest of us.

    So, if he hires a lawyer worth their salt, that lawyer will specifically and methodically work to assure no more information gets out to taint a jury. If they find it is leaking out, they will seek to change the venue raising cost, etc etc.

    So what you are really saying is, your not going to give. I do not know the guy, I am not likely to give large at all myself, I might send a 10 or 20 spot just to pay a useful tax of sorts, beats how the politicians spend it IMHO.

    I find it more than curious that you seek to hide behind what should be a near impossible task of "more information" and your defense of said position grand entertainment. I wonder what it is about yourself you are so embarrassed of that you seek to hide it.

    Tell Jesus that folks in MO have taken note and wish him the best and I hope indeed that justice prevails.

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    No point in arguing with the elitist he is so busy holding up his big elitist head he can't pay attention to the fact that he doesn't know everything like he thinks he does. He doesn't know anything that we don't already know.

    Just goes to show who is loyal here and who is not. I would like to think that while WCI is not directly involved in his defense, I am sure they are involved behind the scenes in other ways.

    I believe in Jesus and the fact that he believed he had to defend his life. Like I said before, what is the point of carrying a firearm for self defense if you have no intention of using it. That leads me to believe that people such as the elitist only carry for the attention it brings them and nothing more. For Him and those like him it is nothing more than food for the ego.
    Last edited by J.Gleason; 08-03-2010 at 03:35 PM.

  25. #25
    McX
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    spoken thusly....
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