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Matt Hart incident

usmcbess

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
195
Location
Labadie, Missouri, USA
After watching the Matt Hart incident videos and seeing the police use the excuse of exigent circumstances as an excuse to enter his home, search his gun locker, and confiscate his firearms. I decided to look up the meaning of this phrase. Ifound the answer at http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e063.htm . The definition was very startling and made me very unsure of my personal security and that of my property against illegal searches and seizures by police.
What do you think?
 

Superlite27

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,277
Location
God's Country, Missouri
IMHO

I only see two things addressed by "exigent circumstances".

1) Providing an excuse to enter a dwelling without a warrant. (i.e. Officer believes homeowner may be in danger and cannot grant permission. If I am having a heart attack, I do not want cops to wait for a judge to issue a warrant before they kick the door in and provide first aid.)

2) Providing an excuse to not announce their affiliation (i.e. "no-knock" warrants where they can be reasonably assured that if they announce their affiliation - "Open up! IT's the police!" the reason for the warrant will be destroyed - flush the pot down the toilet.)

The link you provided stated that the government cannot manufacture its own exigency (i.e. launch a flash-bang or CS cannister into the house, then enter because of fire, or danger to the homeowner)

I fail to see how, since Mr. Hart was already in custody, they could use "exigent circumstances" as an excuse to sieze his firearms. How would siezing them prevent bodily harm? He was in custody. I would think it would be impossible to figure out how you can enter a dwelling without a warrant after you have the suspect in custody. Unfortunately, Mr. Hart was plinking out in his yard and the deputies entered his house after putting him in the car.....

...then "Oh s#!t! We entered his house without a warrant! We need to come up with some "exigent circumstances"!

They can plainly be heard discussing "scenarios"!

"Uh...maybe there's some shooting victims downstairs?"

"Don't worry. I'll use flowery language when I write this up."

If this isn't a clear case of the government "manufacturing" its own exigent circumstances, I don't know what is.
 

cash50

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
349
Location
St. Louis
I tend to think these were overzealous cops as opposed to exigent circumstances.

Anyone else notice the cops lack of muzzle control when hopping the fence? I'm sure safeties were off and chambers/mags full. It's funny how incompetence is able to show up in so many ways in this video.
 

peterarthur

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
613
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Obvious 4A violation. Any followup on the story? Has he filed civil suit yet? Have the deputies been fired. I am so angry I can barely type straight...
"The police power is an attribute of government fundamentally necessary to the public safety, but so easily perverted as to be extremely dangerous to the rights and the liberty of the citizen. Even when properly defined... its enlargement, by continual loose applications of the term to cases where it is neither needed nor appropriate, is a serious menace to personal freedom."
--Henry Black (Handbook of American Constitutional Law, 4th ed. 1927, p. 370)

Police did not EXIST here when our country was founded. Of course, the Sheriffs did, which is the problem in this case :/
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Obvious 4A violation. Any followup on the story? Has he filed civil suit yet? Have the deputies been fired. I am so angry I can barely type straight...
"The police power is an attribute of government fundamentally necessary to the public safety, but so easily perverted as to be extremely dangerous to the rights and the liberty of the citizen. Even when properly defined... its enlargement, by continual loose applications of the term to cases where it is neither needed nor appropriate, is a serious menace to personal freedom."
--Henry Black (Handbook of American Constitutional Law, 4th ed. 1927, p. 370)

Police did not EXIST here when our country was founded. Of course, the Sheriffs did, which is the problem in this case :/

Easily perverted being the key point here.
 

peterarthur

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
613
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Just watched all 3 videos. I am so freaking PISSED off I can't see straight. Nazi Jackboot thugs. They didn't even try to hide what they were doing. I just called (yes, at 1:30 am) the SLO County Sheriff's office to share my outrage about the incident. The smarmy deputy expressed his "shock" that I just heard about it as it had been public for a month now??? Really? His tone insinuated that I was an uninformed idiot. How could this go unnoticed for so long? I let him know that I would be sure to continue to help the vids go viral and that alot of Americans were watching and that they needed to fix this real soon. Maybe they already did but I could find no evidence of this. Freaking goose-stepping criminals...

Yeah, I'm still pissed...
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP The definition was very startling and made me very unsure of my personal security and that of my property against illegal searches and seizures by police. What do you think?

As much as I love the topic, it is off-topic for this forum, except in the very narrowest sense as applied to OC, or illegal home and car searches that might result in gun seizures.

Check this blog www.fourthamendment.com for daily updates about the government assault on the 4th Amendment.

Google "Dr. Roger Roots" for his papers on it, especially his paper titled something like, "Are Cops Constitutional?" Don't get too wrapped up in the title. Follow the deterioration of the 4th Amendment.
 
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