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Colleges

Yooper

Yooper

Regular Member
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Aug 14, 2008
Messages
800
Location
Houghton County, Michigan, USA
Regarding the CPL ban in dormitory or classroom, does the ban apply to the actual classroom, and the actual housing unit of the dorms, or to the building as a whole? I know some universities have businesses that are in the same building as classrooms or dorms, so I was wondering if the ban applied there.
 
stainless1911

stainless1911

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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
IIRC, and I forgot where to find the cite, the wording was for "dormitories and classrooms" I don't recall anything referring to the building.

Since we are on colleges, my mom works at Oakland University, and I'm getting my CPL back on Monday, which leads to a question. I know I can legally OC there, but does anyone know if OU has a policy against firearms possession, and weather the OU police there have the authority to criminalize our civil right and charge me with something?
 
DrTodd

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
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Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
It seems they think they can. I've given you the ordinance below. Interesting that if you resided in the married housing or in non-student residences, you could posses anywhere as long as it was otherwise legal. :banghead:

7.02 Weapons and Explosives. No person shall possess a pistol or any other firearm, dangerous weapon, weapon, explosive or incendiary device on the campus provided, however, that the occupants of single family residences in the Meadow Brook subdivision and non-student University residences may possess firearms as permitted by law. A weapon is any object designed to cause physical injury or any other object capable of causing physical injury or death. A dangerous weapon is any weapon designed to be dangerous and capable of causing death or serious bodily harm, or any other object capable of causing death or serious bodily harm that is used as a weapon. Items presumed to be dangerous weapons include, but are not limited to, daggers, dirks, stilettos, blackjacks, billies, metallic knuckles, bludgeons, ninja stars, and pocket knives opened by mechanical device. This section shall not be applicable to the authorized display of fireworks or cannon fire at events approved by the President or a designee.
 
stainless1911

stainless1911

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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
This seems to apply to those who reside on the campus. I have no connection with the school, except that my mom works there, and sometimes I need to go up to see her there. Im not sure after reading this, if it applies also to the general public. What do you think?

ETA, how could they, or anyone else, expect the general public to be aware of their ordinances?
 
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DrTodd

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
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Messages
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Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
This Information is wrong, see my post which follows this


stainless1911 said:
This seems to apply to those who reside on the campus. I have no connection with the school, except that my mom works there, and sometimes I need to go up to see her there. Im not sure after reading this, if it applies also to the general public. What do you think?

ETA, how could they, or anyone else, expect the general public to be aware of their ordinances?
Click to expand...



They do say "any person..."

But here is the interesting part: IMHO, they are not peace officers, they are just security guards. So, the security officers could call the police but they really would have a hard time detaining you if you wanted to leave before they got there.They have no more right to arrest anyone than you do: (felony in your presence). Ok, as security, they can detain you for violating MCL 356c-d (Retail Fraud)-- don't take anything offered for sale and they can't detain you. Also, this means that you are not required to inform if they stop you while cc.



My information:I looked at a list of those security officers who are licensed as security police under the Licensed Private Security Police Officers Act.
The only security officers in the state w/ police arrest powers are :
Currently, there are 11 licensed private security police agencies in Michigan:

Detroit Medical Center

Pontiac School District

Renaissance Center Management Co.

Lansing School District

Henry Ford Health System

University of Detroit Mercy

St. John Hospital & Medical Center

Fairlane Town Center

Schoolcraft College

Spectrum Health

Source: http://www.michigan.gov/mcoles/0,1607,7-229--147950--,00.html
 
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stainless1911

stainless1911

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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
So, the best thing to do, is to WRR, even though they are not cops, conduct my buisiness, and then leave? There should be no issues? If they try to detain me, I leave, if they refuse to allow me to leave, I call the real police, and request that the security officers (OU police) be charged with an unlawful detainment crime? Not trying to be redundant, just being careful.
 
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DrTodd

DrTodd

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Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Mea Culpa: They are not licensed under the above provision, but they are a bonified police department w/ sworn officers: found their link on the law enforcement Network.



DrTodd said:
They do say "any person..."

But here is the interesting part: IMHO, they are not peace officers, they are just security guards. So, the security officers could call the police but they really would have a hard time detaining you if you wanted to leave before they got there.They have no more right to arrest anyone than you do: (felony in your presence). Ok, as security, they can detain you for violating MCL 356c-d (Retail Fraud)-- don't take anything offered for sale and they can't detain you. Also, this means that you are not required to inform if they stop you while cc.



My information:I looked at a list of those security officers who are licensed as security police under the Licensed Private Security Police Officers Act.
The only security officers in the state w/ police arrest powers are :
Currently, there are 11 licensed private security police agencies in Michigan:

Detroit Medical Center

Pontiac School District

Renaissance Center Management Co.

Lansing School District

Henry Ford Health System

University of Detroit Mercy

St. John Hospital & Medical Center

Fairlane Town Center

Schoolcraft College

Spectrum Health

Source: http://www.michigan.gov/mcoles/0,1607,7-229--147950--,00.html
Click to expand...
 
DrTodd

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
stainless1911 said:
So, the best thing to do, is to WRR, even though they are not cops, conduct my buisiness, and then leave? There should be no issues? If they try to detain me, I leave, if they refuse to allow me to leave, I call the real police, and request that the security officers (OU police) be charged with an unlawful detainment crime? Not trying to be redundant, just being careful.
Click to expand...

Nope, the above info was wrong. Current law would not allow them to be a PD without the Private Security Officer Act... but basically they used to be allowed to from a PD and are grandfathered in. Looked at current law, not law that was repealed but current PD's grandfathered.
 
stainless1911

stainless1911

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Messages
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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
DrTodd said:
Nope, the above info was wrong. Current law would not allow them to be a PD without the Private Security Officer Act... but basically they used to be allowed to from a PD and are grandfathered in. Looked at current law, not law that was repealed but current PD's grandfathered.
Click to expand...

So, they are to be regarded as police officers?

ETA 2,000 posts yay
 
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stainless1911

stainless1911

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Messages
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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Chapter 9. Penalty for Violations
9.01 Penalty. Except as provided in Chapter 3 of these ordinances (traffic regulations), any violation of these ordinances shall be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $100 or by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or both, or as otherwise determined by law.

9.04 Denial of Access to Campus. Any individual who violates these ordinances and whose actions pose a threat to the health and/or safety of the university community, or to university property, or whose actions constitute trespass may also be referred to the university administrator designated by the president for a hearing which may result in an order denying the offending individual access to the campus for a specified period of time.



But I still cant tell if they can make these ordinances apply to the general public. How would the general public be expected to be aware of these ordinances?
 
DrTodd

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
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Messages
3,272
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Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
stainless1911 said:
Chapter 9. Penalty for Violations
9.01 Penalty. Except as provided in Chapter 3 of these ordinances (traffic regulations), any violation of these ordinances shall be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $100 or by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or both, or as otherwise determined by law.

This seems to indicate that the only thing they can enforce is the traffic section chapter 3
Click to expand...

It's actually in the MCL. Start here:
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-Act-35-of-1970
Read through it: they are assuming the same right as places like UofM, MSU, etc. under the same "privilege" to make law in opposition to the Firearm Preemption Law. We continually try to hash this out here on the board and it is something I believe most here want changed. The real issue: we believe these places should be covered by preemption. I think there recently was an attempt by a University in Colorado to maintain a firearm ban. (Colorado has comparable constitutional provisions in it's constitution for the universities to have ordinances under the independence allowed them that Michigan does). The university lost in court. Perhaps we are getting closer to a time where we in Michigan need to push the envelope?
 
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stainless1911

stainless1911

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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Based on the following snips, and the fact that they are claiming police powers, with uniforms, decorated vehicles, powers to arrest, powers to charge people with crimes which reflect on criminal records, and could result in incarceration, they are absolutely a local unit of government.

390.151 Oakland university; establishment, location; board of control. snip The institution shall be maintained by the state and its facilities shall be made available equally and upon the same basis to all qualified residents of this state.

390.152 Board of control; members, terms. sniphe board shall consist of 8 members who shall hold office for terms of 8 years and who shall be appointed by the governor by and with the advice and consent of the senate,


390.154 Board of control; quorum; conducting business; notice of meeting; powers and duties of board; assumption and payment of liabilities; constitutional powers; other powers not excluded. snip The business which the board may perform shall be conducted in compliance with Act No. 267 of the Public Acts of 1976, being sections 15.261 to 15.275 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. Enumeration of powers in this act shall not be considered to exclude powers not expressly excluded by law.



390.158 Board of control; ordinances, adoption, amendment or repeal; violation, penalty.
Sec. 8. snip The violation of any such ordinance shall be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $100.00 or imprisonment for not more than 90 days or both.


If charged, and in front of a judge, how could any judge possibly be shown what is written above, and not see that this is a local unit of government, and then be obligated to apply preemption to the accusation?
 
DrTodd

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
stainless1911 said:
Based on the following snips, and the fact that they are claiming police powers, with uniforms, decorated vehicles, powers to arrest, powers to charge people with crimes which reflect on criminal records, and could result in incarceration, they are absolutely a local unit of government.

390.151 Oakland university; establishment, location; board of control. snip The institution shall be maintained by the state and its facilities shall be made available equally and upon the same basis to all qualified residents of this state.

390.152 Board of control; members, terms. sniphe board shall consist of 8 members who shall hold office for terms of 8 years and who shall be appointed by the governor by and with the advice and consent of the senate,


390.154 Board of control; quorum; conducting business; notice of meeting; powers and duties of board; assumption and payment of liabilities; constitutional powers; other powers not excluded. snip The business which the board may perform shall be conducted in compliance with Act No. 267 of the Public Acts of 1976, being sections 15.261 to 15.275 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. Enumeration of powers in this act shall not be considered to exclude powers not expressly excluded by law.



390.158 Board of control; ordinances, adoption, amendment or repeal; violation, penalty.
Sec. 8. snip The violation of any such ordinance shall be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $100.00 or imprisonment for not more than 90 days or both.


If charged, and in front of a judge, how could any judge possibly be shown what is written above, and not see that this is a local unit of government, and then be obligated to apply preemption to the accusation?
Click to expand...

Because Currently, Section 2 of Public Act 319 of 1990 prohibits a local unit of government (defined as a city, village, township, or county) from taxing, adopting or enforcing an ordinance pertaining to, or regulating in any other manner "the ownership, registration,purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms,ammunition, or components," except as otherwise provided by federal or state law. Colleges and Universities are not in that list.
 
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