Awesome Police Encounter!

Tom Gresham · Jul 21, 2010

Just a question and a thought. Seems to me that leaving the handgun in the holster means less handling. Every time someone handles the gun, you introduce (however slightly) the opportunity for an AD or ND.

How would it be received if the citizen suggested to the officer that all guns remain in holsters?

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jul 21, 2010

dspd204 said:
I don't understand your comment about tone in written words....

See what I mean!!! :lol:

I was basically trying to apologize in advance if what I said seemed harsh or combative, as that was not my intent.

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jul 21, 2010

Tom Gresham said:
Just a question and a thought. Seems to me that leaving the handgun in the holster means less handling. Every time someone handles the gun, you introduce (however slightly) the opportunity for an AD or ND.

How would it be received if the citizen suggested to the officer that all guns remain in holsters?

That is what bothers me about WI law. Every time I get into the car, I have to remove the weapon from my holster, have to drop the magazine, drop the cartridge from the barrel (we carry category 0) and then put the handgun and magazine into the case and then the case in the vehicle.

If I'm running errands, I can get in and out of my car 10 times! Imagine the civilians watching me get out of the car, pull the case out, put it on my lap, remove the gun, put the magazine in, rack the slide and then put in my holster.

dspd204 · Jul 21, 2010

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
See what I mean!!! :lol: I was basically trying to apologize in advance if what I said seemed harsh or combative, as that was not my intent.

Okay, I'm with you now.

dspd204 · Jul 21, 2010

Tom Gresham said:
Just a question and a thought. Seems to me that leaving the handgun in the holster means less handling. Every time someone handles the gun, you introduce (however slightly) the opportunity for an AD or ND.

How would it be received if the citizen suggested to the officer that all guns remain in holsters?

Point taken on the AD/ND aspect, Tom.

SlackwareRobert · Jul 22, 2010

I am sorry if my comment was taken wrong. To many threads from the french quarter JBT's.
Then just after they finally go after a few bad leo I read a story of a amicable encounter.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

Still without a scanner, how do you know there wasn't an armed thug lurking about who was scared off by you?
By taking credit to being thugee, you could be helping the real thug to escape. A polite no I haven't seen
any suspicious people with a gun, I hope you catch him though, they are why I carry.

charlie12 · Jul 22, 2010

SlackwareRobert said:
I am sorry if my comment was taken wrong. To many threads from the french quarter JBT's.
Then just after they finally go after a few bad leo I read a story of a amicable encounter.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

Still without a scanner, how do you know there wasn't an armed thug lurking about who was scared off by you?
By taking credit to being thugee, you could be helping the real thug to escape. A polite no I haven't seen
any suspicious people with a gun, I hope you catch him though, they are why I carry.

We are not in New Orleans, we are not even close to New Orleans. NOPD is a world of it's own. This happened in Denham Springs in Livingston Parish by Sgt. Womack of the Denham Springs Police Dept.
Why is NOPD even in this thread? Maybe since you're in Alabama you don't know much about LA, I know I don't know much about Alabama so I don't post on the Alabama site.

What does a scanner have to do with it? I have about 10 or 15 can't remember how many.

McX · Jul 22, 2010

i don't know anything about either. but it was a nice interaction to read of. one of you guys grab a babyfood jar, go down to the gulf and get me a genuine tar ball for my 'soils and rocks of the world' collection?

NRAMARINE · Jul 22, 2010

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
That is what bothers me about WI law. Every time I get into the car, I have to remove the weapon from my holster, have to drop the magazine, drop the cartridge from the barrel (we carry category 0) and then put the handgun and magazine into the case and then the case in the vehicle.

If I'm running errands, I can get in and out of my car 10 times! Imagine the civilians watching me get out of the car, pull the case out, put it on my lap, remove the gun, put the magazine in, rack the slide and then put in my holster.

Category 0 ? Please elaborate, apologies, however I am ignorant to this term.

John Pierce · Jul 22, 2010

Shannon,

Thank you for saying this and for all that you do for your state and community!!!

I hope you will stay around. There are a small minority of posters who have an anti-LEO mentality but we work very hard to insure that no LEO bashing is allowed (unless we are discussing a specific incident of misconduct involving gun owners).

The ultimate goal is for law-abiding citizens and law enforcement officers to have only positive interactions.

Thanks again and let me know if I can ever do anything for you!

John

dspd204 said:
Thanks to everyone for the welcomes & kind words!

Charlie12's brief synopsis of my & whoopingllama's meeting was entirely accurate. I am obligated to answer complaints from our citizens, as trivial and/or unfounded as they may be. I would have to agree w/ the general consensus that the majority of LEOs nationwide are misinformed on 2A & OC issues, but I can assure you that the officers under my supervision are WELL versed on handling such matters.

The post about me asking whoopingllama to briefly voluntarily disarm was entirely correct. He was under no obligation to do so. There was no Terry issue involved because I immediately saw that he was OC'ing & he was under no suspicion of criminal activity. I didn't know him & his voluntary compliance made me more comfortable during our perhaps 30 second interaction. I wish that the OC community would realize that most LEOs are not of the JBT mentality, are strong advocates of the 2A, & realize that an armed citizenry is a very strong deterrent to criminal activity.

In closing, I would ask that the OC community give due consideration to LEOs who are trying to do the right thing in a society that gets more dangerous for us ALL everyday.

With Best Regards,
Shannon Womack

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jul 22, 2010

NRAMARINE said:
Category 0 ? Please elaborate, apologies, however I am ignorant to this term.

Maybe I am. Anyhow, carry a semi-auto, magazine in, safety on, one in the pipe. Pull weapon, drop thumb safety and pull trigger. Isn't that category 0?

Gunslinger · Jul 22, 2010

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
Maybe I am. Anyhow, carry a semi-auto, magazine in, safety on, one in the pipe. Pull weapon, drop thumb safety and pull trigger. Isn't that category 0?

No, that is condition one for a 1911 style, SA semiauto--the preferred carry mode. Condition zero is cocked, round in chamber, no safety. Anyone who carries that way is a moron. You can clear the safety as you draw, so there is absolutely no excuse for carrying a 1911 condition zero, anymore than carrying a cocked revolver which has no safety in the first place.

charlie12 · Jul 22, 2010

McX said:
i don't know anything about either. but it was a nice interaction to read of. one of you guys grab a babyfood jar, go down to the gulf and get me a genuine tar ball for my 'soils and rocks of the world' collection?

Wait a few days and this storm we have headed this way might blow you one up there.

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jul 22, 2010

Gunslinger said:
No, that is condition one for a 1911 style, SA semiauto--the preferred carry mode. Condition zero is cocked, round in chamber, no safety. Anyone who carries that way is a moron. You can clear the safety as you draw, so there is absolutely no excuse for carrying a 1911 condition zero, anymore than carrying a cocked revolver which has no safety in the first place.

OK. I carry condition 1. I have a Taurus 24/7 Pro 9 mm. It has no 'cocking'. It does have a thumb safety.

NRAMARINE · Jul 22, 2010

I guess what I don't understand is why you said you were removing your weapon and clearing it every time you get into your car. Is that the law where you are? Here the vehicle is an extension of your home and you pretty much carry at your discretion in the vehicle.

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jul 22, 2010

NRAMARINE said:
I guess what I don't understand is why you said you were removing your weapon and clearing it every time you get into your car. Is that the law where you are? Here the vehicle is an extension of your home and you pretty much carry at your discretion in the vehicle.

Yessir!

In WI, your firearm has to be unloaded and encased in a case designed for gin storage. No holster, no center console, no under the seat, no glove compartment.

This is a department or natural resources rule. Something about poaching. Technically you cannot lean a loaded riffle up against a vehicle or you are in violation. The law says 'in or on vehicle'.

So.... if I have my gun case in my trunk and open my gun case while it's there, I am violating the law. So, I have to take the closed case out, put it on the ground or on my knee, open the case, pull out weapon and magazine (magazine can be in same case, just not in gun) and then put the empty case back into the car.

Welcome to Wisconsin!

Luckily, we have at least two county DA's that will no longer prosecute those laws even though the DNR is having a fit.

jnmtwo · Jul 22, 2010

dspd204 - Welcome to OCDO.

NRAMARINE · Jul 22, 2010

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
Yessir!

In WI, your firearm has to be unloaded and encased in a case designed for gin storage. No holster, no center console, no under the seat, no glove compartment.

This is a department or natural resources rule. Something about poaching. Technically you cannot lean a loaded riffle up against a vehicle or you are in violation. The law says 'in or on vehicle'.

So.... if I have my gun case in my trunk and open my gun case while it's there, I am violating the law. So, I have to take the closed case out, put it on the ground or on my knee, open the case, pull out weapon and magazine (magazine can be in same case, just not in gun) and then put the empty case back into the car.

Welcome to Wisconsin!

Luckily, we have at least two county DA's that will no longer prosecute those laws even though the DNR is having a fit.

That doesn't make sense to me. If oc is legal in Mi. wouldn't carrying on your person pre-empt that law? Technically the weapon isn't toutching the vehicle. You are carrying it on your person on ( or in ) your own property. I'm not trying to argue, I'm simply trying to understand. Acording to that, you can oc in public but not inside your own property. How fracked up is that?

paul@paul-fisher.com · Jul 22, 2010

NRAMARINE said:
That doesn't make sense to me. If oc is legal in Mi. wouldn't carrying on your person pre-empt that law? Technically the weapon isn't toutching the vehicle. You are carrying it on your person on ( or in ) your own property. I'm not trying to argue, I'm simply trying to understand. Acording to that, you can oc in public but not inside your own property. How fracked up is that?

LOL! I agree completely, no sense whatsoever! Trust me, it is the law. In WI, the vehicle is NOT an extension of your home. It makes us :banghead: everyday.

The only LEGAL means of carry is OC and you can't OC in a bar without permission from the bars owner, can't OC in a GFSZ, can't OC in a state park, can't OC in a public building.

Having a loaded gun in a car is technically CC.

Just had a lady dragged out by 3 (or 6, depending on the story) for having a loaded gun in a zippered gun case on her front seat. It was an illegal search that got the charges thrown out but if she had consented to the search, it would of been a valid arrest.

Here's a memo from a DA that is stopping enforcing some laws http://www.co.jackson.wi.us/html/district%20attorney/Documents/McDonald%20vs.%20City%20of%20Chicago.pdf

McX · Jul 22, 2010

aint no castle nothing around these parts, you do have the right to flee.....

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