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Thread: Louisiana Bishops Ban Guns From Catholic Churches Despite Law Allowing Them

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Louisiana Bishops Ban Guns From Catholic Churches Despite Law Allowing Them

    First post narrow format... see next post.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 07-21-2010 at 03:24 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Oops, first post narrow formatting again... gets me every time...

    Looks like the Louisiana Bishops don't care about the sanctity of their parishioners' lives so much after all...

    What an oxymoron.

    TFred

    Louisiana Bishops Ban Guns From Catholic Churches Despite Law Allowing Them

    Concealed handguns won't be allowed in Roman Catholic churches, despite a new state law allowing them.

    BATON ROUGE, La. -- Concealed handguns won't be allowed in Roman Catholic churches, despite a new state law allowing them.

    "We don't think it is appropriate to have guns in churches," Danny Loar, executive director of the Louisiana Conference of Catholic Bishops -- the church's public policy arm in Louisiana, said Monday.

    The law allows concealed handguns in churches, synagogues or mosques for those with a valid permit and training. It also says those with authority over a church have the final say in their church.

    Bishops discussed the issue when reviewing bills, Loar said.

    "The bishops decided that, if the bill became law, the bishops would let their pastors know that this would not be permissible in Catholic churches," Loar said.

    The previous law let only law enforcement officials carry concealed weapons into churches.

    Loar said he notified Louisiana's bishops by e-mail shortly after Gov. Bobby Jindal signed state Rep. Henry Burns' bill into law on July 6.

    The bill triggered controversy and heavy criticism in newspaper editorials but cleared the House 65-26 and the Senate 22-9.

    Burns, R-Haughton, said this year's law gives church leaders a new option if security concerns warrant it.

    "I don't have a problem with them opting out of it," Burns said of Catholic bishops.

    "It is a freedom of choice thing," he added.

    Burns said the law has triggered interest among deputy sheriffs in Caddo and Bossier parishes. He said some shooting ranges have called to ask about the requirement for an eight-hour training course for those who want to carry a concealed handgun in a church.

    "I just know in this area there has been a lot of interest in it," Burns said.

    Whether and which churches in Louisiana plan to take advantage of the law is unclear.

    Priests and ministers are supposed to notify the congregation in churches that allow concealed handguns.

    Burns' proposal is said to have stemmed from a request from a small congregation in northern Louisiana.

    Loar said he told Burns early in the legislative process that the Louisiana Conference of Catholic Bishops would remain neutral on his bill as long as it was optional.

    "That is why we stayed out of the picture," Loar said.

    Burns' initial proposal was rejected, but state Sen. Joe McPherson, D-Woodworth, attached similar legislation onto a separate bill dealing with handgun permits in the final days of the nearly three-month session.

    "A lot of churches have security already," McPherson said Monday.

    "This just allows them to use their members that have concealed carry permits as part of their security," he said.

    Burns said his bill has also prompted some needed conversations about the security of doors, locks and parking lots in and around churches.

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    Prayerfully there will be a legal challenge in defense of which the Church will have to admit the details of its financing and control. Without reading the particular law, it probably expects the local proprietors to bar or welcome guns, rather than 'Rome'. Welcome to the Reformation - again.

    There, Fred, I got it down away from the advertising space.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 07-21-2010 at 04:14 PM.

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    "We don't think it is appropriate to have guns in churches," Danny Loar, executive director of the Louisiana Conference of Catholic Bishops -- the church's public policy arm in Louisiana, said Monday.
    Unfortunately, BGs don't feel this way, as demonstrated by the murderer of the abortion doctor in a church. So, why disarm the GGs who might defend the parishioners from such an attack.

    That being said, I respect the Church's right to make that decision. I just wouldn't ever attend a Catholic Mass in LA.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Unfortunately, BGs don't feel this way, as demonstrated by the murderer of the abortion doctor in a church. So, why disarm the GGs who might defend the parishioners from such an attack.

    That being said, I respect the Church's right to make that decision. I just wouldn't ever attend a Catholic Mass in LA.
    I don't want to go too far down this road... but... the problem with a blanket policy like this is that to some folks, this is as bad as when the Government compels you to enter a "gun free zone", and arguably worse.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I don't want to go too far down this road... but... the problem with a blanket policy like this is that to some folks, this is as bad as when the Government compels you to enter a "gun free zone", and arguably worse.

    TFred
    It is not as bad as the government compelling you to enter a gun-free zone. This is private property, controlled by the Church. Don't enter the property if you feel strongly enough about it. If I were still a Catholic, I'd tell the priest that I'd be worshiping elsewhere and that, if he felt I needed a sacrament, he's welcome in my home, where guns are also welcome.

    I hate the decision. I love the fact that we live in a country where they can make it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is not as bad as the government compelling you to enter a gun-free zone. ( . . . )

    I hate the decision. I love the fact that we live in a country where they can make it.
    Exactly. I also hate that the legislative "fix" to the gun ban requires additional training and specific permission from church leadership, plus regular announcements (compelled speech, another 1A violation), before anyone can legally carry in a church.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is not as bad as the government compelling you to enter a gun-free zone. This is private property, controlled by the Church. Don't enter the property if you feel strongly enough about it. If I were still a Catholic, I'd tell the priest that I'd be worshiping elsewhere and that, if he felt I needed a sacrament, he's welcome in my home, where guns are also welcome.

    I hate the decision. I love the fact that we live in a country where they can make it.
    Well in my effort to not open a risky door, apparently I didn't go down my intended road quite far enough.

    This is a Bishop's decree, and from what I see, applies to all Catholic churches under his jurisdiction, namely, the state of Louisiana.

    There will be people for whom this is a choice between carrying a firearm for self-defense, and neglecting the attendance of the entire Catholic church, and all those associated consequences.

    All the government can do is throw you in jail... the church on the other hand... well, hopefully now you see where I'm going here.

    I'm not Catholic, so I don't fully understand everything that may be at stake, but I don't imagine they would be happy if you decided to leave the church over this.

    If I'm misunderstanding this, I would welcome additional information from those who do know more.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 07-22-2010 at 12:36 AM.

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Not all churches in a diocese are under the bishop. Many catholic religious orders have churches within the boundaries of the diocese, but are not under the authority of the bishop.

    That being said, I'd probably just conceal and ignore the bishop on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Well in my effort to not open a risky door, apparently I didn't go down my intended road quite far enough.

    This is a Bishop's decree, and from what I see, applies to all Catholic churches under his jurisdiction, namely, the state of Louisiana.

    There will be people for whom this is a choice between carrying a firearm for self-defense, and neglecting the attendance of the entire Catholic church, and all those associated consequences.

    All the government can do is throw you in jail... the church on the other hand... well, hopefully now you see where I'm going here.

    I'm not Catholic, so I don't fully understand everything that may be at stake, but I don't imagine they would be happy if you decided to leave the church over this.

    If I'm misunderstanding this, I would welcome additional information from those who do know more.

    TFred
    The legal argument: Churches are private property. The owners (the diocese) have a property right allowing them to ban guns. You, as an individual, have a right not to go on to that private property.

    The moral argument: If you belong to a church, you should accept their rules, all of them, or find another church to attend. One may try to change secular rules (such as a gun-ban), but should either abide by them or leave the church.

    Again, If I were still a Catholic, I would inform my priest that I would be worshiping elsewhere. If he felt that I needed a particular sacrament, he could come to my home to administer it.

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    You would think a Church being God's house, they should ask Him if it's ok to carry.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    "Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)

    So apparently, according to Luke, not only does Jesus approve of carrying a weapon for self-defense, but he approves of carrying a BU too...

    I'm no Biblical Scholar, but I think that a Son trumps a Bishop any day...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-23-2010 at 05:47 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    In a letter written by Paul to Timothy, Paul said:

    "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Tim. 5:8).

    'nuff sed...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    False doctrine has done more harm to mankind than guns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by American Patriot View Post
    False doctrine has done more harm to mankind than guns.
    How is the Catholic bishops' policy on guns false doctrine?

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