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Thread: Question on OC at stores

  1. #1
    Regular Member Colt 1911's Avatar
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    Question Question on OC at stores

    When you go through the metal detector does it go off? What about those door greaters at walmart what if they ask what you are carrying and why? can they tell you to leave the store or is it only managers may tell you to leave not store employee? I have to explain its our right because Virginia is a OC state? what if the door greater ask me to leave? ask to speak to his manager?



    Also you can OC in the car right? What if you get pulled over ?
    Last edited by Colt 1911; 07-21-2010 at 05:05 PM.

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    first of all, those aren't metal detectors. The merchandise has tags that set off alarms. If the store is not posted you can carry any way you want. If someone asks you to cover or leave, you must follow their wishes, you can however, later take it up with corporate or the store manager. Most, larger, stores have policy that mirrors Ohio State Law. I'm not sure about Virginia.

    I have read more than one story where a OC'er has been kicked only to get a apology from the store manager after corporate got done chewing their buts out. Its a adventure, have fun..
    Last edited by JSlack7851; 07-21-2010 at 05:03 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Colt 1911's Avatar
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    But can a store greater kick you out? or the cashier does not like you and say leave? or only the manager can tell you to leave?

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colt 1911 View Post
    when you go through the metal detector does it go off? What about those door greaters at walmart what if they ask what you are carrying and why? Can they tell you to leave the store or is it only managers may tell you to leave not store employee? I have to explain its our right because virginia is a oc state? What if the door greater ask me to leave? Ask to speak to his manager?

    Colt 1911: The search function is your friend!
    Last edited by ODA 226; 07-21-2010 at 05:05 PM.

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    Browse and read for a few days/weeks and you'll find the answers to all the questions you've been asking.

  6. #6
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Colt 1911: The search function is your friend!

    Quote Originally Posted by Colt 1911 View Post
    ODA 226, do you have an opinion on weapon-mounted lasers?
    Uh-oh, now you've done it!



















    just joking



    Welcome Colt 1911. Stick around, read a lot here, and come to some of our open carry dinners!

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt 1911 View Post
    When you go through the metal detector does it go off? What about those door greaters at walmart what if they ask what you are carrying and why? can they tell you to leave the store or is it only managers may tell you to leave not store employee? I have to explain its our right because Virginia is a OC state? what if the door greater ask me to leave? ask to speak to his manager?

    Also you can OC in the car right? What if you get pulled over ?
    As stated above the things that look like metal detectors are RFID/Magnetic readers that detect when an unsold item crosses them. If you ever see the checkout person at a place like JC Penney running your purchase over those pads that say "Don't place credit cards here" it is because there is a magnet wiping out the data basically removing the product info so those alarms don't go off. I have had them not wipe/clear it enough and still they go off sometimes.

    If someone asks you to leave you have your options based on how much of a hurry you are in. You can leave, you an ask to talk to a manager, you can also engage the person asking you to leave to see what level employee they are and why they think they have the right to ask you to leave. If you "refuse" to leave they can call police and charge you with tresspassing. If the place they ask you to leave from is someplace that you know is not-anti I would ask to talk to the manager so that I could continue my shopping.

    If it turns out that the policy is "anti" and you leave (after being asked) you can call, email, or best write a letter to the company asking why their policy is the way it is and make a case for changing it. I just did this for Blackhawk.

    As far as OC-ing in the car. Yes you can OC and it has to be plainly visible, usually on the seat. As of July 1st non-CHP holders can also secure a loaded handgun in the glovebox or center console (really any "secured" container but those come to mind first). In the past those containers would be considered concealment and require a CHP. You can also simply keep it in your holster, although seatbelts seem to hide them a bit I haven't read anywhere of anyone getting in trouble with their gun holstered.

    If you get stopped by police, be polite, do not agree to any searches and watch what you say. In most cases they are professional and don't care. In my case since I have a CHP when they run my license it pops up in the database and they usually ask me if I have my concealed handgun on me. You don't have to volunteer the information upfront but if asked you are required to answer truthfully. I have read a couple times where police (ask/take) the gun away and unload it during the encounter and return it afterwards. They should not be able to run serial number in my opinion unless there is reasonable suspicion, but have heard of them doing just that.

    There are some videos on YouTube about how Not to talk to the police. Do a search and watch them. They are very eye opening and informative.


    Dr Mark, I didn't see where he asked ODA about lasers but it was hilarious. It is kind of an inside joke for the forum but ODA has some strong opinions but thankfully he usually includes some humor in there, like pictures of sharks with lasers!
    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #8
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Dr Mark, I didn't see where he asked ODA about lasers but it was hilarious. It is kind of an inside joke for the forum but ODA has some strong opinions but thankfully he usually includes some humor in there, like pictures of sharks with lasers!
    He didn't -- I hope it was clear that was part of my joke.

    Colt 1911, ODA 226 is a good guy. He just really like folks to use the search feature!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt 1911 View Post
    But can a store greater kick you out? or the cashier does not like you and say leave? or only the manager can tell you to leave?
    Only the owner of the property can tell you to leave. And they can do so for any reason, including if they don't want you carrying there. If you refuse to leave, you can be arrested for trespass. If a cashier or greeter tells you to leave, best ask to speak to the manager or owner to see if they agree and don't want your business. But don't argue or make a scene, you'll just cause trouble and give OCers a bad name. In the end, it is private property, you don't have a "right" to be there, and if they don't respect your desire to have a means of self defense, best not to support them with your money.
    Last edited by nova; 07-21-2010 at 08:05 PM.

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Only the owner of the property can tell you to leave. And they can do so for any reason, including if they don't want you carrying there. If you refuse to leave, you can be arrested for trespass. If a cashier or greeter tells you to leave, best ask to speak to the manager or owner to see if they agree and don't want your business. But don't argue or make a scene, you'll just cause trouble and give OCers a bad name. In the end, it is private property, you don't have a "right" to be there, and if they don't respect your desire to have a means of self defense, best not to support them with your money.
    So who owns Walmart now a days? I believe any "agent" of the store can ask you to leave not just the owner. The owner sets the policy and the employees carry it out. If you believe there is an error in the employees interpretation of the policy ask to talk to a manager. There were a few cases over the last year of a Walmart manager transfering in from an Anti-state store and they were carrying their old-state's policy with them errantly.

  11. #11
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Pay close attention:
    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    If you get stopped by police, be polite, do not agree to any searches and watch what you say.... In my case since I have a CHP when they run my license it pops up in the database and they usually ask me if I have my concealed handgun on me. You don't have to volunteer the information upfront but if asked you are required to answer truthfully.
    I suggest you follow PVC's advice and don't tell them if they don't ask.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...-traffic-stops
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    So who owns Walmart now a days? I believe any "agent" of the store can ask you to leave not just the owner. The owner sets the policy and the employees carry it out. If you believe there is an error in the employees interpretation of the policy ask to talk to a manager. There were a few cases over the last year of a Walmart manager transfering in from an Anti-state store and they were carrying their old-state's policy with them errantly.
    State law does not say "agent" of the store, it says "owner."

    O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.

    If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.


    (Code 1950, 18.1-173; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1982, c. 169; 1987, cc. 625, 705; 1991, c. 534; 1998, cc. 569, 684.)

    I don't see section O as having much purpose. Seems like more of a reminder to me. Oh BTW, this law does not grant you the authority (wait wait, you can't authorize me to do anything! Sure you can take my rights away but don't think what *is* legal is because you've made it so) to fire shots into the air while drunk and smoking pot.
    Last edited by t33j; 07-21-2010 at 08:48 PM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    State law does not say "agent" of the store, it says "owner."

    O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.
    Prohibited by the owner doesn't mean he flew out from headquarters and notified you personally to leave the store. If the owner set a policy that no guns were allowed (prohibited), his employees follow that policy and ask you to leave. Once they ask you to leave if you do not you are tresspassing, see t33j's comments above.

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    Regular Member Colt 1911's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ODA 226
    Colt 1911: The search function is your friend!


    Originally Posted by Colt 1911
    ODA 226, do you have an opinion on weapon-mounted lasers?
    Uh-oh, now you've done it!

    When did I say this line

    Originally Posted by Colt 1911
    ODA 226, do you have an opinion on weapon-mounted lasers?

    I never talked about weapon-mounted lasers. lol?

    Thanks guys for the info
    Last edited by Colt 1911; 07-21-2010 at 09:34 PM.

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    Regular Member tdbarge's Avatar
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    Colt, my advice is to just get out and OC. Pop that OC cherry and it gets easier and more natural everytime you do it. To get the best idea of where you can carry and where you will be asked to leave check the "OC in ______" for the area you will be in. Those threads have some of the best info on the site, IMO.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt 1911 View Post
    When did I say this line

    Originally Posted by Colt 1911
    ODA 226, do you have an opinion on weapon-mounted lasers?

    I never talked about weapon-mounted lasers. lol?

    Thanks guys for the info
    ...just a joke about the lasers.

    ODA is passionate about the search function... and LASERS!!!

  18. #18
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Prohibited by the owner doesn't mean he flew out from headquarters and notified you personally to leave the store. If the owner set a policy that no guns were allowed (prohibited), his employees follow that policy and ask you to leave. Once they ask you to leave if you do not you are tresspassing, see t33j's comments above.
    This.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  19. #19
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    <snip> to fire shots into the air while drunk and smoking pot.
    Killjoy!
    Last edited by 45acpForMe; 07-21-2010 at 10:21 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Just to chip in a few pennies worth...

    As noted earlier, Section O. of the CHP code is virtually worthless, especially here since we are talking about OC in the store. All it does is to clarify that a CHP does not trump the rights of property owners. Of course, if you are actually carrying concealed, the desires of an anti-gun property owner and your desire to carry for self-defense, rarely collide. It's a classic case of "no harm, no foul".

    99.9% of all conflicts with anti-gun property owners will fall under the trespass code referenced above, because we are blessed to live in Virginia, where there are no specific laws against carrying a gun onto property against the owner's wishes. There are many threads in the Virginia forum on the subject of trespassing, and I concur, the Search function can be your friend.

    TFred

  21. #21
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    ...just a joke about the lasers.

    ODA is passionate about the search function... and LASERS!!!
    That was really funny Mark! You guys know how passionate I am about the usage of Gayzers...I mean, Lasers.....LMAO!

  22. #22
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    As far as OC-ing in the car. Yes you can OC and it has to be plainly visible, usually on the seat. As of July 1st non-CHP holders can also secure a loaded handgun in the glovebox or center console (really any "secured" container but those come to mind first). In the past those containers would be considered concealment and require a CHP. You can also simply keep it in your holster, although seatbelts seem to hide them a bit I haven't read anywhere of anyone getting in trouble with their gun holstered.Click image for larger version. 

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    I would highly recommend NOT to put your sidearm on a seat unless you anticipate imminent trouble. The reason is if you have to stop quickly, there is a very good chance your gun is going to fly off of the seat onto the floor. Best to keep it where it belongs, in your holster, unless you perceive an imminent threat.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I would highly recommend NOT to put your sidearm on a seat unless you anticipate imminent trouble. The reason is if you have to stop quickly, there is a very good chance your gun is going to fly off of the seat onto the floor. Best to keep it where it belongs, in your holster, unless you perceive an imminent threat.
    +1000
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Just a note about asking to speak to the manager.

    Good managers are dependent on good employees. It puts him in a very unpleasant position to stand in public and critize an employee that's just trying to enforce whatthey think store policy is. Even if they're wrong.

    I find it's usually better to leave and then take it up in private.

    That said, I'm not known for tact. Grapeshot once accused me of snarling at people.
    That's just a misconception. It's really a smile

    But I do leave when asked to do so and take it from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Kowalski View Post
    +1000
    During that FBI shootout in Miami in the 1980s one of them had unholstered their firearm while driving. They ended up wrecking their vehicle just before the suspects began shooting, and the guy who had unholstered his firearm previously no longer had it in his possession.

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