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Thread: Luther Jackson Middle School, Falls Church - 1000 ft rule?

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    Luther Jackson Middle School, Falls Church - 1000 ft rule?



    Luther Jackson Middle School sits directly across the street from where my misses and I like to go to to eat occasionally. I was wondering if carry was even legal because of the Federal GFZ and the 1000' rule. Can anyone weight in and let me know? I concealed once in Panda Express, but realized that it was school once I was leaving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightmareSHANIQUA View Post

    Luther Jackson Middle School sits directly across the street from where my misses and I like to go to to eat occasionally. I was wondering if carry was even legal because of the Federal GFZ and the 1000' rule. Can anyone weight in and let me know? I concealed once in Panda Express, but realized that it was school once I was leaving.
    If you have a VA CHP you are exempt from the 1000ft nonsense (and actually, the school property itself too, at least in the eyes of the Feds...State law still applies to the actual K-12 property).
    Last edited by nova; 07-21-2010 at 06:03 PM.

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    1000' nonsense is meaningless as well if you're on private property (it may be more specific than that but I'd have to look).

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    1000' nonsense is meaningless as well if you're on private property (it may be more specific than that but I'd have to look).
    Correct, on private property not part of school grounds.
    18 USC 922 (q)(2)(B)(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    It doesn't say anything about going to or from private property, though. Is the entire area private property with easements for the streets and sidewalks? Or is the land on which the streets and sidewalks sit not private property?
    Last edited by virginiatuck; 07-21-2010 at 07:04 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    1000' nonsense is meaningless as well if you're on private property (it may be more specific than that but I'd have to look).
    How would one legally get to and from the private property if they did not have a CHP?

    Have never heard of anyone being prosecuted in Virginia who was not otherwise involved in an illegal activity = criminal.
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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Have never heard of anyone being prosecuted in Virginia who was not otherwise involved in an illegal activity = criminal.
    Done it just about every day that I've carried a gun. No problems so far.
    Last edited by t33j; 07-21-2010 at 08:31 PM.
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    Re: How would you get your gun to a private business to meet the exception?

    Answer: Unloaded and cased. Ridiculous answer I know but that seems to be the only way permissable. However, seeing that Americans and Virginians have a right to a firearm for self defense as protected by the U.S. Constitution this prohibition on carrying in non-sensitive places (non-sensitive only mentioned sense the recent ruling discussed sensitive locations) should fall as a violation of US Constitution Amendment 2.

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    Something else to remember...it is not up to local LEO's to enforce federal law. Realistically, the only way you would be charged under the federal law would be as an "add-on" charge to other criminal charges...so you'd have to commit another crime first. That's not to say that if you openly carried a firearm on K-12 property that you wouldn't be arrested and charged; but, while driving on a public street that falls within that 1000', it isn't very likely...you'd have to be pulled over for something else...so just obey traffic laws and you should be ok. If you happen to be on private property within that 1000', and openly carrying a firearm, an LEO also can't assume you've broken the law entering the private property...unless he (or someone else that's willing to give a statement and testify)actually witnessed it. I'm not encouraging anyone to break the law...just stating the obvious.

    Remember, IANAL...and somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fully_armed_biker View Post
    Something else to remember...it is not up to local LEO's to enforce federal law. Realistically, the only way you would be charged under the federal law would be as an "add-on" charge to other criminal charges...so you'd have to commit another crime first. That's not to say that if you openly carried a firearm on K-12 property that you wouldn't be arrested and charged; but, while driving on a public street that falls within that 1000', it isn't very likely...you'd have to be pulled over for something else...so just obey traffic laws and you should be ok. If you happen to be on private property within that 1000', and openly carrying a firearm, an LEO also can't assume you've broken the law entering the private property...unless he (or someone else that's willing to give a statement and testify)actually witnessed it. I'm not encouraging anyone to break the law...just stating the obvious.

    Remember, IANAL...and somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
    That's exactly right Biker.
    I do not advocate breaking laws on the net but IMO and I want to emphasize....IMO only, it is not an enforceable law outside of the school property.

    If it was, the City of Richmond would be using it in one of their never ending Local/Federal, witch hunts.

    A local cop can't charge you under a Federal Statute and I see very few FBI Agents working traffic.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The Federal GFSZA is one of the most hated pieces of anti-gun legislation in existence today, at least IMHO.

    Not only is it widely believed to be unenforceable (if you have the massive resources required to fight the US Department of Justice), as noted, it seems to only be used to add more charges to criminals who commit other crimes.

    But that does not change the fact that it makes nearly every non-CHP gun carrier a felon. It falls under the category "let's make it illegal to breathe, so we can charge whomever we want with a crime." It has to be the Brady Bunch's dream, because it does, almost literally, make every gun owner a criminal, just as they have truly believed to be the case all along.

    It is correct that as far as I know, nobody has ever been prosecuted solely for a violation of the GFSZA. If such a case ever develops, that would be of paramount interest to the RKBA community.

    Does this make you feel better? I refer you to a recount of the oral arguments of the SCOTUS case Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, from WorldNetDaily, with my emphasis added:

    Upon her answer, Justice Scalia jumped into the argument as well, saying that based on Kagan's logic he had "no idea where the government would draw the line with respect to the medium that could be prohibited."

    Kagan then softened her answer, reiterating an earlier suggestion that an FEC prohibition of a book would likely lose a legal challenge and adding, "What we're saying is that there has never been an enforcement action for books. Nobody has ever suggested – nobody in Congress, nobody in the administrative apparatus – has ever suggested that books pose any kind of corruption problem."

    Scalia, however, was still not appeased.

    "So you are a lawyer advising somebody who is about to come out with a book and you say, 'Don't worry, the FEC has never tried to send somebody to prison for this,'" he postulated. "'This statute covers it, but don't worry, the FEC has never done it.' Is that going to comfort your client? I don't think so."

    No matter what the Feds may or may not have done in the past, it doesn't change the fact that carrying a gun within 1000 feet of school property makes most people a felon.

    Welcome to America. May God help us.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 07-22-2010 at 01:51 PM. Reason: ETA: Brady blurb

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    Ok can I get some clarification. I walk tue dog and have been routing specifically to avoid schools (in Leesburg and sterling there is a school on every corner so it is really annoying to have to avoid the sidewalks that go past them). So if I have a chp is it legal to oc or cc walkng down the sidewalk along the street past a school?

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conhntr View Post
    Ok can I get some clarification. I walk tue dog and have been routing specifically to avoid schools (in Leesburg and sterling there is a school on every corner so it is really annoying to have to avoid the sidewalks that go past them). So if I have a chp is it legal to oc or cc walkng down the sidewalk along the street past a school?
    Yes, and you do not need to have it in your possession if you are OCing.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    TFred gave a very good answer.

    I don't ever encourage breaking a law...at least in public

    I've said this many times (and people refuse to recognize it) that if you have to function in the year 2010, you will commit a Misdemeanor at least once a week, and a Felony once a month.

    It's a fact you have to accept because it's unavoidable.

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    Okay, I just want to be sure. Say I went to eat at any of the restaurants there by the school, I have a CHP, so I am fine to open carry even if I am within the 1000' radius? My mind is really pretty shot after this summer class, so you guys will have to forgive me.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightmareSHANIQUA View Post
    Okay, I just want to be sure. Say I went to eat at any of the restaurants there by the school, I have a CHP, so I am fine to open carry even if I am within the 1000' radius? My mind is really pretty shot after this summer class, so you guys will have to forgive me.

    You're fine!

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    Yesssssss

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I wish they would charge me

    If you are charged with only that violation by the Feds, then I think Mr. Gura would want to meet you. Yeah, your name on a SAF complaint. That would be swell. What a great slam dunk case that would be.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    If you are charged with only that violation by the Feds, then I think Mr. Gura would want to meet you. Yeah, your name on a SAF complaint. That would be swell. What a great slam dunk case that would be.
    Heller, McDonald, Thundar...

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    You're fine!
    ^^

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    Yes, and you do not need to have it in your possession if you are OCing.
    You don't not need it if you are CCing though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You don't not need it if you are CCing though.
    that didn't not confuse me at first...

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