Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 86

Thread: Warning to all you paddle holster owners!

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mo.
    Posts
    279

    Warning to all you paddle holster owners!

    For those of you who support OC or just prefer the OWB kydex, you've just got to see this. It's going to convince you to be more selective in your holster choice and might just be a good influence for why CCW is such a good idea in certain cities, especially in States that have good carry and defense laws.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeKt...eature=related

    It's certainly convinced me to not buy Fobus products ever again (stopped buying them in 02 when I had a bad experience with a roto-holster coming apart) and I'll now be questioning my Blackhawk Serpa as well.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 07-22-2010 at 11:55 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Las Vegas NV, ,
    Posts
    1,763
    Not this **** again. If you allow a guy to walk up and say the words simple gun grab and then allow him to push down and twist your holster you need to be shot. Lets pretend for a second it was a leather holster or any other. The guy doesnt have to break your holster to get the gun. He could have just pulled the gun out.

  3. #3
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Clayton, NC
    Posts
    1,319
    As best I can tell, this video has been around for awhile and most people agree:

    Don't buy a Fobus.

    This doesn't mean not to buy paddle holsters in general.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,558
    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    as best i can tell, this video has been around for awhile and most people agree:

    Don't buy a fobus.

    This doesn't mean not to buy paddle holsters in general.
    this

  5. #5
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    Post Don't be silly

    A. Nobody's ever proven a Gun Grab against an OC'er has ever occurred.
    meanwhile many CCers have had to use lethal force, where OCer almost never do.

    B. That is a range holster. Not all holsters are appropriate for OC. (Most are not)
    carry something with retention. If it has screws, Loc-Tite them after you adjust it.
    I don't like paddle holsters. They can be pulled right out. I like Belt Loops.

    C. If a retention holster breaks away like that,, The perp would be hard pressed to put it in service as doing so would require two hands and concentrated effort. meanwhile your either drawing your BUG or striking him violently about the neck and face.

    If you think OC is a disadvantage you obviously haven't thought about it very hard in terms of REALITY.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I've done a LOT of thought about this. I've been carrying for a decade in various configurations, and I have CC permits from 3 states. I've worked for the DOJ and been involved with dozens of reports on exactly these sorts of issues. I'm not just pulling this stuff out of thin air--its established fact.

    I'm not criticizing YOU, I'm criticizing the thinking behind this whole "element of surprise" myth. You didn't come up with that idea--it was taught to you by some CC instructor, who is part of a larger community of "groupthink" that has bought into this myth as a way to justify their existence.

    The idea that CC gives you some sort of "tactical advantage of surprise" is a myth perpetuated by CC instructors as part of their effort to appeal to a certain type of person, and as a way to justify their existence. It has no basis in research, no basis in tactical analysis, and no basis in self defense logic. If CC were such a big tactical advantage, then police and military would CC.

    The whole point behind CC has NOTHING to do with "surprising the BG". The entire reason behind CC is that it allows people to be prepared to defend themselves without having to worry about "scaring the sheep" who have been brainwashed to believe that ALL guns are evil. CC is a "workaround" to allow people to carry and yet not cause hoplophobes, Anti's and soccer moms to get all worked up into a lather.

    The only "tactical advantage" that CC provides is as a lure for BGs to lull them into a sense that you are an"easy mark", so you can then exercise the privilege that a CC permit gives you. CC GUARANTEES that you'll have to shoot.

    Personally, I don't ever want to shoot someone. I hope and pray that I never draw my firearm in a self-defense situation. So OC, with the overt visual deterrence it affords, makes a LOT more sense.

    If a mugger attacks someone who is OCing, hes not going to expect ANYTHING, because he's obviously so irrationally insane that he is incapable of critical thinking. I don't buy the "element of surprise" argument. It makes no sense in terms of logistics, tactics, and the timeline of events in such a situation. Someone who is determined to use lethal force in the commission of a crime is NOT going to be "surprised" if you retaliate.


    Please provide a SINGLE documented instance in the US where a violent attacker "drew" on an OCer.

    I'll wait...

    From what I've seen, this has happened ONCE, and that was an event in Wisconsin about a month ago, and that incident has such dicey circumstances that many folks are of the opinion that it was some sort of staged "false flag" event by the "antis" to make OC look bad...


    Now research on how many times a mugger "draws" on a CCer. You'll find that this happens SEVERAL times a month in the US...

    The BG ALWAYS has the element of surprise on his side. CC means you will ALWAYS be working from a REACTIVE mode, which by definition means the other guy has the tactical upper hand. Period. End of discussion.

    I'd MUCH rather have a BG leave me alone altogether because I'm OCing than be forced to shoot someone BECAUSE I was CCing and the BG thought I was an "easy mark". Avoidance or deterrence are ALWAYS preferable to conflict.

    This isn't rocket science, here folks...

  6. #6
    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Hattiesburg, Mississippi, USA
    Posts
    411
    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    A. Nobody's ever proven a Gun Grab against an OC'er has ever occurred.
    meanwhile many CCers have had to use lethal force, where OCer almost never do.

    B. That is a range holster. Not all holsters are appropriate for OC. (Most are not)
    carry something with retention. If it has screws, Loc-Tite them after you adjust it.
    I don't like paddle holsters. They can be pulled right out. I like Belt Loops.

    C. If a retention holster breaks away like that,, The perp would be hard pressed to put it in service as doing so would require two hands and concentrated effort. meanwhile your either drawing your BUG or striking him violently about the neck and face.

    If you think OC is a disadvantage you obviously haven't thought about it very hard in terms of REALITY.
    Bzzzt. Wrong. Not all can be "pulled right out". Have you ever actually tried a paddle holster?

    I can't speak for other brands, but my Serpa paddle cannot be removed from my pants without some SERIOUS effort. I have tried it many times over the past 8 months or so, and even knowing how to get it off, and having the freedom to put my hands wherever I want to, it still takes me half a minute to get the little "hooks" clear of my pants and belt. I have to reach inside my waistband and lift the bottom "hook" clear of my pants most of the time to get it off.

    Someone who just grabbed and yanked would pull me off my feet and along for the ride before that paddle let go of my pants/belt.
    Last edited by 4angrybadgers; 07-22-2010 at 01:50 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member sFe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Laurinburg, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    Bzzzt. Wrong. Not all can be "pulled right out". Have you ever actually tried a paddle holster?

    I can't speak for other brands, but my Serpa ......
    Someone who just grabbed and yanked would pull me off my feet and along for the ride before that paddle let go of my pants/belt.
    The pants hook always gets wrapped in my jeans..
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan

    When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours - Stephen Roberts

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Port Orchard, Washington, USA
    Posts
    69
    I have had multiple people try to disarm me with the paddle holster (obviously unloaded) both attempting to use the release and draw the weapon, and actually remove the weapon with holster. The weapon was drawn once by my wife but she knows how the holster works and I had to stand still while she drew straight up, quite an uncomfortable motion for a person trying to do it quick and nothing that couldn't bee stepped into them during while spinning twords them to protect the firearm. The paddle has never been fully removed though and most times hardly moves when people have attempted it. I trust my paddle just fine.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    It is a pain in the butt to take my OWB holster off. Good luck to anyone trying to grab my gun that way.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brentwood, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,956
    This is why you should carry your pistol on a sling, in your pants mexican style, or in your hand(if required by law). I think holsters are a waste of money.

    Last edited by kwikrnu; 07-22-2010 at 05:06 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    Some have better features than other...

    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    Bzzzt. Wrong. Not all can be "pulled right out". Have you ever actually tried a paddle holster?

    I can't speak for other brands, but my Serpa paddle cannot be removed from my pants without some SERIOUS effort. I have tried it many times over the past 8 months or so, and even knowing how to get it off, and having the freedom to put my hands wherever I want to, it still takes me half a minute to get the little "hooks" clear of my pants and belt. I have to reach inside my waistband and lift the bottom "hook" clear of my pants most of the time to get it off.

    Someone who just grabbed and yanked would pull me off my feet and along for the ride before that paddle let go of my pants/belt.
    Yes there are always exceptions. Some designs are better than others.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    229
    Now I'm bummed. I have both the belt loop Fobus and a paddle version for my carry gun.

  13. #13
    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW Washington, Washington, USA
    Posts
    317

    Interesting, but...

    If you look at what's really going on in this video you'll see that it's not what would happen in the real world. If someone grabbed your gun and twisted it the whole holster and paddle would tend to rotate and it would probably have to rotate far more than the approx 95 degrees it rotates in the video to break it. When the guy puts his hand on the gun he he tells the owner to "push down" and you can see the owner do that. The owner pushing down is what keeps the holster/paddle from freely rotating and that's why it breaks with a 90+ degree twist..

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran Cavalryman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    I don't like paddle holsters. They can be pulled right out.
    That's why I've never had a paddle holster. I just can't shake the fear that someday when I really, really need it, the holster will come out of my waistband with the gun.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mo.
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    This is why you should carry your pistol on a sling, in your pants mexican style, or in your hand(if required by law). I think holsters are a waste of money.

    Ok, that sure looks familiar...wait, that's because mine is in a shoulder rig! Nice DE, I have the 1980's model bitone .44mag myself.

    Sorry folks, I failed to note the date on this video. It was sent to me with another video a buddy had filmed breaking his own Fobus...an older Fobus at that, so go figure. Still, it's eye-opening and I may have discovered something interesting as a result. I'll youtube the video once we test it at the range to see if we can get the holster to give or outright break and it might actually surprise even the manufacturer.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 07-23-2010 at 12:21 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    134
    Kind of rushed through reading all the posts on here, but I can honestly say that my Fobus paddle did it's job quite well a little over a week ago. Without going into details on here, I was in a physical altercation while OCing. While on the ground wrestling around for about two minutes and one strong tug on the weapon, it never budged and my Sigma stayed in place until I was able to end the mayhem (with hands of course, no weapons involved). Which is something a lot of my holsters with retention straps haven't done before on lesser occasions. Of course that was one incident so don't take it to heart too much.

  17. #17
    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    407
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavalryman View Post
    That's why I've never had a paddle holster. I just can't shake the fear that someday when I really, really need it, the holster will come out of my waistband with the gun.
    Have you even looked at a Blackhawk Serpa Paddle? They have hooks on them that hook onto your belt or your jeans.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

  18. #18
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598
    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    this is why you should carry your pistol on a sling, in your pants mexican style, or in your hand(if required by law). I think holsters are a waste of money.

    Thanks once again for showing us all what an irresponsible idiot you are!
    Last edited by ODA 226; 07-23-2010 at 06:58 AM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Centreville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    Thanks once again for showing us all what an irresponsible idiot you are!
    +1000000000000

  20. #20
    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Hattiesburg, Mississippi, USA
    Posts
    411
    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    This is why you should carry your pistol on a sling, in your pants mexican style, or in your hand(if required by law). I think holsters are a waste of money.
    So you would recommend I go from a paddle holster - that cannot be removed from my pants and that covers the trigger - to one of the following:

    1. Sling: Leaves the trigger open for a grab. Leaves the whole "pistol" more accessible for a grab. At risk of bouncing around and bumping me or things around me during daily activity.
    2. "Mexican style": Trigger is not protected in any way from snagging on my garments. Pistol is not secured to me and is in danger of falling down my pants. Less accessible than in an OWB holster.
    3. In the hand: Not gonna even touch that one, the issues are ridiculously obvious.

    No thanks, I'm gonna stick with my (very secure, comfortable, and reasonably-priced) Serpa.

  21. #21
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    Tough. You brought it up now we need details.

    Quote Originally Posted by proud_to_serveUSAF View Post
    Kind of rushed through reading all the posts on here, but I can honestly say that my Fobus paddle did it's job quite well a little over a week ago. Without going into details on here, I was in a physical altercation while OCing. While on the ground wrestling around for about two minutes and one strong tug on the weapon, it never budged and my Sigma stayed in place until I was able to end the mayhem (with hands of course, no weapons involved). Which is something a lot of my holsters with retention straps haven't done before on lesser occasions. Of course that was one incident so don't take it to heart too much.
    Are you saying your the first known OCer to be the victim of a gun grab? We really need some details. At least say whether this qualified as a gun grab.

  22. #22
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147
    UGH!! I can't believe this video is still around. I don't understand how anyone can give ANY credibility to this video. Seriously, The carrier helped the grabber!!
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by VAopencarry View Post
    UGH!! I can't believe this video is still around. I don't understand how anyone can give ANY credibility to this video. Seriously, The carrier helped the grabber!!
    Actually, if somebody is trying to get your gun out of your holster you are supposed to push down. This technique is taught in many beginner self defense courses. So your statement of the carrier helped the grabber yes he did, but that is what you are supposed to do if somebody is trying to get your gun. You are supposed to try and prevent them from pulling the gun out of the holster by pushing down, therefore this video has a lot of credibility. The holster is a an older fobus riveted paddle design, the newer fobus holster to my knowledge are not desiged this way.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mo.
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by VAopencarry View Post
    UGH!! I can't believe this video is still around. I don't understand how anyone can give ANY credibility to this video. Seriously, The carrier helped the grabber!!

    My fault. I took the hit on this as I didn't pay attention to which video (and the date) I linked to. But, once we have the video this weekend you might be surprised as to the result and what the product is. Brand new in the box and unmodified, it's a mind-bender to say the least, provided we can replicate the previous results form this past week and didn't just have a bad product.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Tennessee

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •