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Thread: Question about the laws regarding sale of long guns

  1. #1
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    Question about the laws regarding sale of long guns

    My dad would like to sell some of his long guns but we are unsure how to do so legally.
    I would appreciate any input you have regarding this issue.

  2. #2
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    No registration or anything like that in Michigan for long guns. As long as you do not devote time and interest to selling firearms as predominant form of "income", you do not need a license. You would be smart to ask for a copy of their driver's license so that you know that they are 18+ and a resident of Michigan. I would also consider having something typed up that the person signs attesting to the fact that they are not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under Federal Law or Michigan Law.

    You can put an ad in the local paper or go to michiganopencarry and look for the firearms for sale section. Many other websites also have sales areas, MCGRO, Michigan Gun Owners, gunsamerica.com; gunbroker.com. Just limit sales to those in Michigan and then you don't have to go through a Federal Firearm Licensee. If you sell to an out of state person on gunsamerica.com or gunbroker.com, there are directions there as to how to do that as then the buyer must go through an FFL.
    Good luck!
    If I have forgotten or misstated anything, I am sure someone here will chime in...
    Last edited by DrTodd; 07-22-2010 at 08:22 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    No registration or anything like that in Michigan for long guns. As long as you do not devote time and interest to selling firearms as predominant form of "income", you do not need a license. You would be smart to ask for a copy of their driver's license so that you know that they are 18+ and a resident of Michigan. I would also consider having something typed up that the person signs attesting to the fact that they are not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under Federal Law or Michigan Law.

    You can put an ad in the local paper or go to michiganopencarry and look for the firearms for sale section. Many other websites also have sales areas, MCGRO, Michigan Gun Owners, gunsamerica.com; gunbroker.com. Just limit sales to those in Michigan and then you don't have to go through a Federal Firearm Licensee. If you sell to an out of state person on gunsamerica.com or gunbroker.com, there are directions there as to how to do that as then the buyer must go through an FFL.
    Good luck!
    If I have forgotten or misstated anything, I am sure someone here will chime in...
    Dr Todd is spot on. If you follow his post you should be fine. I would try MGO 1st if your long guns are in good shape & priced fair you should be able to find a buyer for them. Just remember to "bump" your post from time to time so it doesn't get lost 20 pages down in the pile. Look around first before you post to see what similar guns are going for. The link

    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=142

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 07-22-2010 at 09:09 PM. Reason: add info

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Generic receipts for Seller/Buyer

    These have worked for me feel free to use if you don't have a receipt book etc...
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #5
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    No registration or anything like that in Michigan for long guns. As long as you do not devote time and interest to selling firearms as predominant form of "income", you do not need a license. You would be smart to ask for a copy of their driver's license so that you know that they are 18+ and a resident of Michigan. I would also consider having something typed up that the person signs attesting to the fact that they are not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under Federal Law or Michigan Law.

    You can put an ad in the local paper or go to michiganopencarry and look for the firearms for sale section. Many other websites also have sales areas, MCGRO, Michigan Gun Owners, gunsamerica.com; gunbroker.com. Just limit sales to those in Michigan and then you don't have to go through a Federal Firearm Licensee. If you sell to an out of state person on gunsamerica.com or gunbroker.com, there are directions there as to how to do that as then the buyer must go through an FFL.
    Good luck!
    If I have forgotten or misstated anything, I am sure someone here will chime in...
    There is no requirement that they be a Michigan resident. They only need to be a resident of a contiguous state, the same as a Michigan resident purchasing.

    3.111 Rifles and shotguns; purchases by residents.
    Sec. 1. Residents of this state may purchase rifles and shotguns in any state contiguous thereto if they conform to the federal
    gun control act of 1968 and the regulations issued thereunder, as administered by the secretary of the treasury and the laws of
    the state where the purchase is made.
    History: 1969, Act 207, Imd. Eff. Aug. 6, 1969.

    3.112 Rifles and shotguns; purchases by nonresidents.
    Sec. 2. Residents of a contiguous state may purchase rifles and shotguns in this state if they conform to the federal gun control
    act of 1968 and the regulations issued thereunder as administered by the secretary of the treasury and the laws of the state
    wherein the purchaser resides.
    History: 1969, Act 207, Imd. Eff. Aug. 6, 1969.

    750.223 Selling firearms and ammunition; violations; penalties; “licensed dealer” defined.
    Sec. 223. (1) A person who knowingly sells a pistol without complying with section 2 of Act No. 372 of the Public Acts of
    1927, as amended, being section 28.422 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment
    for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    (2) A person who knowingly sells a firearm more than 30 inches in length to a person under 18 years of age is guilty of a
    misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $500.00, or both. A second or
    subsequent violation of this subsection is a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years, or a fine of not more
    than $2,000.00, or both. It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution under this subsection that the person who sold the firearm
    asked to see and was shown a driver’s license or identification card issued by a state that identified the purchaser as being 18
    years of age or older.
    (3) A seller shall not sell a firearm or ammunition to a person if the seller knows that either of the following circumstances
    exists:
    (a) The person is under indictment for a felony. As used in this subdivision, “felony” means a violation of a law of this state,
    or of another state, or of the United States that is punishable by imprisonment for 4 years or more.
    (b) The person is prohibited under section 224f from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping,
    receiving, or distributing a firearm.
    (4) A person who violates subsection (3) is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or by
    a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.
    (5) As used in this section, “licensed dealer” means a person licensed under section 923 of chapter 44 of title 18 of the
    United States Code who regularly buys and sells firearms as a commercial activity with the principal objective of livelihood
    and profit.
    History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931;—CL 1948, 750.223;—Am. 1969, Act 210, Eff. Mar. 20, 1970;—Am. 1990, Act 321, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991;—Am.
    1992, Act 217, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992;—Am. 1992, Act 221, Eff. Mar. 31, 1993

  6. #6
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Yep! So Ohio, Indiana, and Wisconsin require no FFL for long Gun sales.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  7. #7
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    my question is whats for sale!?

  8. #8
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    my question is whats for sale!?
    Yeah good question!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  9. #9
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Yep! So Ohio, Indiana, and Wisconsin require no FFL for long Gun sales.
    Wouldnt Minnesota be included too? We do not have a land border with them but we do have a water border with that state on Lake superior....
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    my question is whats for sale!?
    That would not be appropriate content for OCDO and as such is strictly not permitted.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
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  11. #11
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That would not be appropriate content for OCDO and as such is strictly not permitted.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
    As such I recommend PMing those that showed interest.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_freak_66 View Post
    Wouldnt Minnesota be included too? We do not have a land border with them but we do have a water border with that state on Lake superior....
    We share a land boundary, it's just underwater.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  13. #13
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    We share a land boundary, it's just underwater.
    Yep I forgot about MN... but yes it would be included as well.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  14. #14
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Yep I forgot about MN... but yes it would be included as well.
    I did know that you could sell to a person in a contiguous state BUT I would only do that if I knew the laws of the other state too. Some states, not sure about those listed, even hold the seller liable if if the seller is out of state (thinking Illinois... which would not be applicable in this situation)

    If a person wants, I believe they can sell to anyone in another state, too, as long as the firearm is shipped to an FFL in that person's state who would then handle it from there.

    But, my thought is why not make it "easy" and just deal with a Michigan resident... but heh, that is just me
    Last edited by DrTodd; 07-23-2010 at 09:07 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    There is no requirement that they be a Michigan resident. They only need to be a resident of a contiguous state, the same as a Michigan resident purchasing.
    Sorry, FEDERAL law says all purchases across state lines must go through an FFL. The Feds got rid of the "contiguous" bit long ago, you may purchase a long gun in most any state but it must be from an FFL if you are not a resident.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Sorry, FEDERAL law says all purchases across state lines must go through an FFL. The Feds got rid of the "contiguous" bit long ago, you may purchase a long gun in most any state but it must be from an FFL if you are not a resident.
    Site?
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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I did know that you could sell to a person in a contiguous state BUT I would only do that if I knew the laws of the other state too. Some states, not sure about those listed, even hold the seller liable if if the seller is out of state (thinking Illinois... which would not be applicable in this situation)

    If a person wants, I believe they can sell to anyone in another state, too, as long as the firearm is shipped to an FFL in that person's state who would then handle it from there.

    But, my thought is why not make it "easy" and just deal with a Michigan resident... but heh, that is just me
    If Minnesota counts, so would Illinois.
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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurus850CIA View Post
    If Minnesota counts, so would Illinois.
    That was my thought... Maybe they were implying because Illinois is so anti it has a law against it...?
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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  19. #19
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Site?
    Cite:
    http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title27....3.3.1.10.html

    27 C.F.R. § 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.
    Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
    PART 478—COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
    Subpart C—Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

    § 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.

    No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State: Provided, That the provisions of this section:

    (a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

    (b) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a rifle or shotgun obtained from a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector in a State other than the transferee's State of residence in an over-the-counter transaction at the licensee's premises obtained in conformity with the provisions of §478.96(c) and

    (c) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with the provisions of §§478.30 and 478.97.

    [T.D. ATF–270, 53 FR 10493, Mar. 31, 1988]


    Also:
    [18 U.S.C. 921(a)(32), 922(g)(8) and 925(a)(1)]

    (B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

    A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    That was my thought... Maybe they were implying because Illinois is so anti it has a law against it...?
    From Cabela's Website:

    Residents of IL can purchase long guns in Iowa, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin or Kentucky provided they posses a valid IL FOID Firearms Owners Identification Card) and observe the 24 hour waiting period as is mandated by IL law.
    Residents of IA, MO, IN, WI and KY can purchase long guns in the state of IL provided they posses valid non-resident IL hunting license.
    See: (IL. Comp. Stat. 430.65/3a)
    Note: the 24 hour waiting period is a true 24 hour clock (Transaction started at 3pm on Monday - customer can pick up their firearm beginning at 3pm on Tuesday)
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  21. #21
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    With such a predictable schedule, it should be easy to work something out with your assailant.

  22. #22
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    With such a predictable schedule, it should be easy to work something out with your assailant.
    Quite Silly, isn't it.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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