How much firepower is recommended?

Glock34 said:

( 17 ) 115 grain + p hollow points in my G34....more than enuff.

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Have you tried any of the heavier ammo in the 34? If so, how does it like if?
I'm still seated in the 115 grain world for the 34 and I'm not sure if I'm willing to try anthing else as I might discover it likes that as well...more money, more money. :banghead:

What are you trying to survive?
Within 1 mile of warez, BMG-50 and staggering amount of ammo, and body armor.
Downtown Daley Chicago, 40-50 cal, 75-150+ rounds, +2 backups. (cops will get at least one of them)
Huntsville AL, 9-45, a couple mags and hope the chief don't see it on your hip.
Six flags, 32 no spares, they wand so gotta travel light.
Livingroom 38 or 9mm for comfort no extra mags, but plenty of others within easy access.
Your carjack dream, a snub nose .44 so you can use it in the car, and some nice 20" rims to run them over with.

How bad is the area you want to leave in one piece, and how far is it to a safe house?
Simple answer "All you need is a cell phone to call the cops with!", ask any police chief.

How much you can effectively put on target, that will effectively neutralize an attacker is the basic answer. For me an XD.45 is the answer. Everything has a variable though, when I travel through places I'd rather not be, I keep a 9mm carbine or an AR close by.

The more firepower, the better. Handguns are not magic death rays. They are weak, hard to aim, and generally low in capacity. Being someone who was shot by a 7.62 Tok, I am especially critical of lower power bullets with little energy transfer, but accuracy is definitely more important.

The ideal sidearm is one of the only things that's debated more than M16 vs AK, or 1911 vs Glock. There are a lot of opions, and most of them valid. It's just that there are countless variables. Like concealment needs, caliber restrictions (more so in other countries) size and shape of hands, capacity restrictions, recoil recovery time vs power, costs, stupid internet debates, things like that.

So all that being said, I have a couple of thoughts.

Even Larry Vickers, pretty much agreed to be the biggest name in 1911's, has stated that a major weakness of the system is the capacity, and that is with a .45. Personally, I think that 16 rounds of 10mm is a nice basic minimum of firepower, but that's just me.

If you have to carry an itty bitty gun, it's possible that a bigger caliber might be harder to manage under recoil. If you practice with a .22 pocket gun to the point where you can do rapid double tap head shots at a BG target out to 15 feet, you might just be a lot better off with that than a Scandium .57, or a pocket Glock, even though the .22 is a zombie rules gun, and the bigger calibers might drop an assailant with a gut shot.

You mentioned accuracy. That is dependent on a number of things, and that is only a question that you can answer by trying different techniques and practicing all the time. Certainly though it's crucial, especially for a smaller caliber gun with a smaller capacity. That's not to say that you need one hole accuracy at 20 yards, but you should practice to consistently shoot silhouette targets with the amount of accuracy you feel you would need.

In any event, the crucial thing, as Clint Smith has put it, is to be able to run with the gun you've got. Not to day dream about how one day you'll have the best gun possible, or how one day they'll make a gun that fixes your predicaments.

The last thing I'll say is that if I had to carry a 7 round 380, I'd practice as I do with my single stack .45. I'd draw the next magazine with one hand at the same time I drew the gun itself if doing one handed shooting, and I'd definitely spend a lot of time practicing reloads. I'd also try to determine whether it was easier for me to get the maximum speed and accuracy with one handed point shooting or 2 handed shooting, because contrary to Jeff Cooper loyalist beliefs, point shooting works well at short distances you're likely to be attacked at, and without weekly practice. But some littler guns aren't that good at it.

Rant mode off, hope that helped.

I'd use nothing smaller than a 9mm, and the mag would be filled with JHP. I have a XD-40 and a 1911, both in condition 1 and both chambered with JHP (unless I go to the rage with them).

(Assuming both bad guys are equally distant from you) If you drew down on one, and the other pulled a weapon, you have to acquire the armed bad guy, and take him out. If the first guy also draws a weapon (assuming simultaneously), shoot him immediately and find cover from the other potential threat.

Beyond that, it's a dream, so there's no reason you couldn't win that one.

heresyourdipstickjimmy said:

And yet another one who refuses to actually read the original post. So I'll quote it for you. Feel free to scroll to the OP for your personal duh-huh moment.

"Is 7 rounds enough?"
"Is .380 enough firepower to drop a man?"

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".380 has no firepower. It has or hasn't "stopping power." Are, not "is," 7 rounds (of firepower) enough? Depends on who's shooting. I asked you how we were 'duped.' Still waiting to hear that revelation.

edited for spelling..duh

+ or - .22 cal LR might be enough. .380 even with the improvements made in ballistics is marginal at best. Seems the argument is about semantics rather than what can reasonably be effective often enough to chose to carry it for personal defense. It is NOT satisfactory for me.

Making or responding to individual taunts and insults is hardly productive.

Personal Preference.

What I did was head to the range, in this case, Jim's Gun Jobbery. I didn't want to go with anything less than a 9mm, so I ended up shooting the 9mm, the .40, and the .45.

After shooting 3 or 4 clips in each firearm, I was able to determine that I shoot much better with the 9mm. I felt that the .40's recoil put too much recoil into my wrists, and that the .45 was just too heavy for me. Having relatively small hands also made me decide on the gun that I chose.

Which one? The XDM9 3.8" with the stainless steel slide. I had decided on a 9mm and this was the gun that provided the best balance in my hands. I also liked the hi-capacity part (19+1). I keep it loaded and chambered with 124 gr. JHP. This is what works for me.

I'd highly recommend spending some time at the range and choosing the gun that you feel most comfortable with and can reliably shoot with.

.02 cents.

I carry a G19 that holds 15 rounds of ammunition in the gun and usually a spare G17 Magazine with 17 rounds of ammunition. Is that enough? maybe it is, then again maybe not. For a one attacker, and good COM hits shooting at a defensive accuracy pace I'm pretty sure it will do the job. For a zombie invasion were only head shots count its probably not enough ammunition.

There are three ways to stop a human.
1.) Blood Loss (Requires that the bullets are striking the target) and can take a while for the attacker to cease attack.
2.) Electrical Shutdown (Brain stem CNS Hit) (Requires good precision relative to distance) almost an instantaneous stop.
3.) Mental quit-attacker stops the assault from the simple presence of a firearm (requires little or no shooting) the simple act of being shot in an extremity may convince the attacker its time to cease the attack, or the simple presence of a firearm may convince the attacker(s) to stop.

People that do not want to be shot and have a gun pointed at them generally will act the same regardless of whether the gun they are facing is a 22lr or a .45ACP.

If your outcome is #1, (then all things equal such as bullets placement non vitals) then it will take more hits from a 22lr then the .45 acp to stop an attacker.
If your outcome is #2, (all things equal the caliber really doesn't matter) Accuracy matters.
If your outcome is #3, then anything resembling a firearm may work to stop the threat.

Selecting a gun for carry is a compromise in the first place. Each individual has to make a decision based on his/her situation.

I choose 9mm for the following reasons:

They are easier to conceal due to size.
They generally carry more BB's (ammo) then something larger in caliber.
They are easier to make follow up shots due to the less recoil therefore achieving multiple hits faster then a larger recoiling gun.
Becoming proficient with a 9mm is easier due to cost of ammunition.

But back to the OPs question is a .380 enough with X number of rounds? I would certainly not want to get shot with a .380 or a .38 or even a 22lr.

"carrying a gun is not comfortable, its comforting."

Everyone is going to have a different opinion. I carry a 1911 in .45 ACP; Winchester Ranger +P; 8+1 w/ 2 spare mags. I believe situational awareness will keep me out of most trouble. If it doesn't I'm not sticking around to fight any more than I have to. The weapon is to cover my retreat as long as retreat is feasible. This assumes out in public, of course.

Just My Opinion...Based on Nothing But Common Sense

I carry the largest gun that is comfortable to carry and practice with. For me it is a Smith and Wesson 686, 3" barrel. It fits nicely in my hand, has a natural point or aim, and the recoil is easy to handle. It carries easily in a Galco High Ride holster and looks menacing.

My reasoning is this: "The bigger the gun, the higher the chance the bad guy will say: 'Oh...S - - t!' and take off, thus increasing the chance of ending the situation with no bullets fired."

When carrying a gun, concealed or open, this is what I keep in mind:

The last thing I want to have to do is draw the weapon.

If I have to draw the weapon, the second to the last thing I want to have to do is pull the trigger.

If I have to pull the trigger, the third to the last thing I want to have to do is miss.

Again...just my opinions.

Many opinions on this

I've heard the advice, "Carry the biggest gun, with the largest capacity and caliber that you're willing to carry all day long, every day." If that's a .380 for you, then that's what it is.

For me, its a SIG P229 in .357 SIG. With 1 or 2 spare magazines. And I keep a couple more loaded magazines in the car. Excessive? I don't want to be in the situation in your dream (nightmare) and run dry with angry, wounded bad guys still up and fighting.

So, you could get a bigger gun. There are 9mm guns out there that probably aren't much bigger than your .380. Or you could carry a couple of extra loaded magazines for the .380. Magazines that size are small and light and easy to carry.

Sometimes, when I can't take the P229, I carry a .380 in a pocket holster. Three spare magazines fit in a nylon pouch I stick in a pocket. Or I can put 1 or 2 magazines in a second wallet. That's 29 total rounds of .380. Not as good as a .50 BMG, but far better than the 7 rounds you originally started with.

G22, 1+15+15+15 for me.

I carry a Springfield Micro Compact .45 ACP with 8 rounds and have two 8 round spare magazines on my side. While this is my prefered tool, I am confident that I'd be able to end any confrontation with my Colt .380 ACP Mustang or my .22 Hi Standard for that matter.

It is not the tool that decides the fight, but rather it is the man or woman that competently wields the tool...

9mm minium, .45 better

We are lucky today to have many options. Guns do not have to be large nore heavy to hold a decent number good cartridges.

I personally recommend 9mm as a minimum. As others have said, small package & a lot of rounds, but it is a personal choice, so if you like .380, carry it.

For a while I carried a 1911 (.45) because I love the gun, but after some thought I switched to the XD .45C because even with the small magazine I have 10 +1 & with the full sized mag I have 13 +1 of .45.

mabe you will never need that many rounds, but I'd rather have them and not need them than need them & not have those extra rounds.

I myself carry a CZ-75 SP-01 in 9mm, with 3 18 round mags of 147 grain Winchester Ranger SXT's. But that's me.

Before, I wouldn't consider anything less than .40 S&W, but when I went to buy a pistol, that particular one called out to me. So 9mm it was.

Plus, if I can't hit/stop someone with 54 rounds, I'm doing something wrong.

But, I also carry the 2 extra mags for a full sized pistol so anyone thinking of starting trouble can see, I've got ammo for days. Granted that's just a side benefit of having more ammo on my other hip.

I have to agree with the majority of responses...as long as you can control it, and shoot accurately, and practice practice practice.

I've got 31 9mm Remington Golden Saber JHP's to feed into my Beretta when I walk out my door. I do believe i have adequate firepower for most instances.

.45" or 11.43mm or what ever it takes

I carry a Kimber Officers model 1911 .45
It holds 10 in the mag +1 Sometimes I bring two 20 round mags on my side for comedic value. The Compact 45 with a massive 20rnd mag sticking out the well has a "Lets party" look to it. Also, the 11.43mm muzzle on the 45 is big enough to let the Winchester Black Talon have a chance to say "Hey, how are ya!" with out having to come out to say Hi

My 2 cents:

It boils down to what you can control, what you can comfortably carry, and what you can afford.

Control: Can you get off aimed shots, with quick follow up shots?

Comfort: Does it fit well in your hand? Does the hand gun fit naturally into your aim?

Affordability: Can you afford a pistol that may not always work? Can you afford to practice with the firearm regularly?

I carry a pistol which can both be concealed and open carry. Affordability was an issue. I could not afford two firearms at this time. True, it is small (3.6 inch barrel) True, it has 7 shot capacity (same as a standard 1911... carry 2 magazines, in hopes I need neither) But, it is a 45.

And since I can shoot it accurately (shot placement is key) have quick follow up shots, aim it naturally, it is comfortable in my hand, and I can afford it and practice with it regularly... Good to Go.

As for "stopping power" remember, even if you shoot someone with a large caliber bullet, they are not going to be blown backwards, they will still be coming at you (the movies have it dead wrong.) If they are as far away as 40 feet, and even further away, expect them to get to you before your shots take any effect.

Remember open carry is a deterrence... An understanding you will fight back.

Remember, a hit with a 9 is better than a miss with a 45. Make sure you can control the firearm well...

What would JEFF COOPER SAY ?

rugerdon said:

I carry the largest gun that is comfortable to carry and practice with. For me it is a Smith and Wesson 686, 3" barrel. It fits nicely in my hand, has a natural point or aim, and the recoil is easy to handle. It carries easily in a Galco High Ride holster and looks menacing.

My reasoning is this: "The bigger the gun, the higher the chance the bad guy will say: 'Oh...S - - t!' and take off, thus increasing the chance of ending the situation with no bullets fired."

When carrying a gun, concealed or open, this is what I keep in mind:

The last thing I want to have to do is draw the weapon.

If I have to draw the weapon, the second to the last thing I want to have to do is pull the trigger.

If I have to pull the trigger, the third to the last thing I want to have to do is miss.

Again...just my opinions.

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I attended the AMERICAN PISTOL INSTITUTE ( WHAT YOU NOW CALL GUNSITE ) for the first time in October of 1987 . I can tell you how JEFF COOPER would answer that question . " The most powerful cartridge you can control , shoot accurately , and with speed . DVC.....DILGENTIA (ACCURACY ).........VIS (POWER)...........CELERITAS ( SPEED ). All people are not the same , the answer will not be the same for everyone . For me................it's the S&W .500 S&W MAGNUM with .500 SPECIAL LOADS ( CORBON 275 GRAIN DPX BULLET @ 1250 FPS AND 900FT.LBS ENERGY ) . It's a 5 shot so I had the cylinder cut to accept full moon clips , and I carry 15 rounds .500 special ammo and 15 rounds .500 magnum ( 275 grain CORBON DPX @ 1865 FPS / SAME BULLET DIFFERENT LOAD; FOR A TOTAL OF 30 ROUNDS SPARE AMMO ) , a total of 6 full moon clips in a full moon clip holder ( not unlike your magazine pouches ) .
But I live in TEXAS , we have no issues on the disparity of force . Here DEADLY FORCE ...............MEANS DEADLY FORCE. IT'S OBAMA NEUTRAL , NOT SEMI-AUTO AND NOT HIGH CAPACITY....................................YATAHEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!W5DVC ......PS Did I forget to tell you .......it's a 4" and it's a 50 cal.