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Thread: Be careful now when copying full articles to the site... I guess?

  1. #1
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    Be careful now when copying full articles to the site... I guess?

    New company was set up to basically sue anybody that copies and pastes the full text of news articles, even when linked to the original, on websites, blog posts, etc..

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...g-for-dollars/


  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    New company was set up to basically sue anybody that copies and pastes the full text of news articles, even when linked to the original, on websites, blog posts, etc..

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...g-for-dollars/

    You did not quote the article in full!

    You of course are right - better to paraphrase or quote a small portion and include a link.

    Same with long postings - not everybody will want to read it all. By NOT posting lengthy articles we save on space allocations too.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Makes sense.

    Guess next time I get chastised for not copying/pasting the whole article by someone that doesn't want to click a link... I won't cave and do it!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    IANAL, and I don't pretend to be one on TV, but I have to wonder where the line for Fair Use is here?

    This forum does not exist to make a profit at the expense of other publishers, IMO, it is very much an educational institution, and I'm sure we could come up with several other Fair Use applications for what we do here, not the least of which is a watchdog on the media with whom we are in an ideological struggle with grave consequences.

    It has been clearly demonstrated that publishers routinely change the content of their publications to suit their needs and the desires of the message they want to express.

    If you trust a liar to tell you the truth about their lies, well that makes you one dumb puppy.

    In addition, it's hard to not mention a fairly important lesson learned by the big players in our country these past few days about context. A woman's career was taken from her and several major media outlets and government officials were embarrassed by their reactions to quotes and sound bites that were presented out of the full context of their delivery. Such errors can only be avoided by reading the full article.

    I glanced at the article you posted... I have to say, a company that has as it's only purpose and source of income to sue people over "copyright violations" is one bottom-feeding sorry excuse for a company.

    As far as I know (that means I am too lazy to go read the rules again right this moment), the board rules do not express a policy on this. It is up to the owners of the board to make a policy, and to enforce it, if they have such a desire. Since the owners are both lawyers, I trust they know what they are doing.

    TFred

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Regardless of "fair use" considerations, it is often appreciated when a full article is NOT published and even more so when later posters do NOT fully quote the article in their replies. Such practices make for overly long, drawn out reading.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Regardless of "fair use" considerations, it is often appreciated when a full article is NOT published and even more so when later posters do NOT fully quote the article in their replies. Such practices make for overly long, drawn out reading.
    You know Grape... you don't have to read it all the way through if you don't want to! Especially not the second time!!

    TFred

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    You know Grape... you don't have to read it all the way through if you don't want to! Especially not the second time!!

    TFred
    Really? Thought it was required.

    Still have to scroll through sometimes pages of the repeat, I say repeat, quotes.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Please do not!

    And if anyone stumbles upon any postings that contain an entire article from anywhere instead of a fair-use excerpt and link, please let me know by clicking the Report Post button and putting in the note Copyright Issue.

    Thanks!


    John

    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    Makes sense.

    Guess next time I get chastised for not copying/pasting the whole article by someone that doesn't want to click a link... I won't cave and do it!

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Regardless of "fair use" considerations, it is often appreciated when a full article is NOT published
    Not by me.

    I PREFER the article be posted rather (or in addition to a link) especially with viruses and smart phones. A pet peeve of mine at work is when folks type a some sort of flyer at work in WORD as a Memo or something that could have been sent as plain text in the original email

    Ed

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Also.. while I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.. I do actually have some experience with copyright law and fair use.

    Some thoughts -

    - Posters here (and everywhere else) are generally responsible for thir own posts.

    - As far as I know.. OCDO is not a commercial (for profit) business.. heck.. even if they are not an official non-profit... the motivation of this web site is NOT to make a profit off others posting copyrighted works.

    - Most of the posts I make when I copy an article are covered under fair use for ridicule, criticism and/or comment

    - If we (or anyone) learns from the repost there is a public benefit (which also is covered under fair use

    - I am not in competition with ANY of the places/or publishers I post from (also covered under fair use).

    All that said.. I am not worried about it. Carry On.

    Ed

  11. #11
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    I'm kinda careful about posting a copyrighted article.

    Gun Week is one of the few publications that gives permission to do so with their articles, so long as it is not attributed to a specific reporter.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Good timing Curtis. I was trying to explain Fair Ues and some of it's pitfalls to Skidmark at breakfast yesterday,

    This group of nightcrawlers popped up because of litigation against sites like The Drudge Report that syndicate news stories. OVN does also.

    That isn't going anywhere but sometimes, an entire story will be submitted incorrectly by the writer and come out as a whole story instead of an excerpt.

    These people are trying to get in on the money by using the same tactics the Music Nazis use. They are only recovering half their expenses though. I doubt you'll see much in the way of smaller websites being tagged by the Copyright people. They aren't going to bring a suit unless there's enough collect.
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-25-2010 at 06:48 AM.

  13. #13
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    The caution and concern with Copyright Law is timely. Unfortunately that area of law is as convoluted and unsettled as is gun law; as the music pirates, warez hackers and P2P aficionados have demonstrated.

    The lamestream media should watch the music market/pirates as they valuate 'music' as worth stealing only. What will 'news' be when it is worth stealing only? What economic theory allows the producer to set the price and not the consumer?

  14. #14
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    IANAL - From www.copyright.gov
    Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.
    With that said I think most articles pasted here are for the purpose of criticism, comment, teaching and research. Long articles can get boring, and should quote specific sections, as long as the quoted section conveys the intent of the writer/person making the comment, and is not taken out of content.

    Some news reporters have a habit of putting incorrect, and out of context statements in their reports whether written such as News Papers and Magazines or verbal such as TV or Radio reports. Numerous times I have read news reports of fires and accidents that I have on as a firefighter/EMT and wondered where they got the information from because their description doesn't sound anything like where I was. And this in conjunction with gun laws, self defense situations leave a lot of room for comment, and criticism on this board

  15. #15
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    ALWAYS post URL and only a SNIP

    I think everybody should know this by now - you can't re-publish people's work in full on the internet - always publish their URL to drive traffic to them - and NEVER post in full - cut some of the text and most or all of any photos OUT of your post - use elipses ( . . . ) to show where you cut - simple rules.

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I think everybody should know this by now - you can't re-publish people's work in full on the internet - always publish their URL to drive traffic to them - and NEVER post in full - cut some of the text and most or all of any photos OUT of your post - use elipses ( . . . ) to show where you cut - simple rules.

    Can't and shouldn't are two different things Mike. You most certainly can and it's done every minute of every day.
    Shouldn't means it may be illegal but even when legal, is poor manners without some kind of consent.

    From your perspective as a web site owner, the proper syntax should be 'you Won't'.

    Even using the RSS snip's that should title a story, it gets complicated sometimes.
    While I don't syndicate OCDO (Mostly because it hasn't been presented for syndication) I do have a link to the site.

    You (Meaning you or John or both) have set your RSS up properly. this is what shows:


    Open Carry





    Others, either don't care or don't understand that allowing the entire post to be broadcast puts it in the Public Domain.

    Here is one that was not only set up to broadcast the entire article, they copied one of Reuters articles as well. They may have an account with Reuters. i have no way of knowing. All I know is that the wrapper was put out in it's entirety and is Public domain now. The Reuters clip is between the blogger and Reuters.

    Patricia Zengerle: Analysis: Race issues beset Obama’s “post-racial” presidency


    Continuing similar themes from last week:

    From Reuters: (In its entirety)
    Analysis: Race issues beset Obama’s “post-racial” presidency
    By Patricia Zengerle
    WASHINGTON | Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:12pm EDT
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Many supporters of Barack Obama hoped his election as America’s first black president might herald an era of post-racial politics, but race has been an issue his administration just can’t seem to avoid.
    Division and tension between black and white Americans has cropped up repeatedly over Obama’s 18 months in office, hurting his popularity and distracting from his political agenda.
    The issue surfaced this week when the Agriculture Department pushed a black official to resign after allegations she discriminated against a white farmer, only to apologize a day later for acting too quickly and without the facts.
    Some said the White House was too eager to prove to its critics on the right that it does not favor blacks.
    “The Obama administration lost some political capital because they acted without thinking things through,” said Andra Gillespie, a political scientist at Emory University.
    Obama and race relations have often grabbed headlines.
    Last July — in the heat of the White House fight for its healthcare overhaul — when Obama was subjected to scathing criticism for saying police had “acted stupidly” when they arrested Harvard University scholar Henry Louis Gates, who is black, on charges he was breaking into his own home.
    More recently, the Justice Department dismissed voter intimidation charges against the New Black Panther Party, prompting criticism from conservative groups who said the black president was unwilling to prosecute fellow blacks for civil rights violations.
    “When the right-wing noise machine starts promoting another alleged scandal, you shouldn’t suspect that it’s fake — you should presume that it’s fake, until further evidence becomes available,” columnist Paul Krugman wrote in The New York Times.


    CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS
    It has been more than 40 years since landmark U.S. civil rights laws banned discrimination against blacks. But race in America remains a forceful, divisive factor in areas from jobs to educational opportunity to banking and home ownership.
    Blacks account for 13 percent of the U.S. population and on average earn less and are more likely to be unemployed than other racial groups. They are also more likely to be arrested and are given harsher sentences.
    “Racial conflict is America’s deepest wound, still poorly healed,” columnist Michael Gerson wrote in Wednesday’s Washington Post.
    Both the right and left accuse each other of injecting race into the political discourse. Experts say that’s inevitable given Obama’s position as the first non-white U.S. president. Obama’s father was Kenyan and his mother a white American.
    This week, Shirley Sherrod, a black official at the Agriculture Department, said her bosses pushed her to quit after conservative media repeatedly broadcast a tape that seemed to show her saying she had discriminated against a white farmer because of his race.
    It was later found that the tape had been altered to misrepresent Sherrod’s remarks at a meeting of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), the oldest black rights advocacy group. She had in fact been saying that race should not matter.
    Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack publicly apologized and the department offered her another job. She said she had not decided whether or not to take it.
    DISTRACTION
    Whether intended or not, the furor over the Sherrod case distracted media attention on Wednesday from one of Obama’s biggest achievements — his signing of a historic reform of financial regulation that was opposed by conservatives.
    Conservatives had linked the tape to the NAACP asking the conservative “Tea Party” political movement to denounce racism by some of its members. Images such as Obama with a bone through his nose and the White House with a lawn full of watermelons are often displayed at Tea Party rallies.
    Tea party leaders say the movement is not racist but concede there are racist fringe elements in its membership.
    Gillespie said the stakes are higher for Obama because his presidential campaign sought to emphasize that it was would not be bogged down in racial disputes.
    “So when Barack Obama got elected … this meant that he wasn’t ’supposed’ to address racial issues and that if he did discuss racial issues, there would be a whole backlash,” Gillespie said.
    Such issues are a distraction from serious problems like racial disparities in U.S. unemployment and education, he said.
    (Editing by Kristin Roberts and David Storey)
    Is Zengerle right on in her analysis? Are there racial tensions lurking just under the surface of the political debate? If so, how much does it have to do with the dissention we feel today?
    I don’t know Patricia Zengerle but she and I have something in common. She is also catching hell from the conservative bloggers. Oh well….


    There isn't anything simple about this and it gets more complicated daily. Some news outlets are now challenging people linking their stories now.

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Like I said, copyright laws are not simple and due to court and now FCC decisions, very fluid.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_wguy/2..._wguy_tc3236_2

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    An extremely good example of problems that should be avoidable:

    “The Armed Citizen” Closes – Site Named in Infringement Suit

    http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    "The Armed Citizen" was run by Claton Cramer--the same guy who wrote "The Racist Roots of Gun Control", and he is also the person responsible for completely discrediting Michael Bellesiles book "Arming America", which led to Bellesiles getting his Bancroft Prize revoked by Columbia University (The ONLY time they've ever done that), and his resignation from Emory University, in disgrace for academic fraud...

    I'd venture to say that "The Armed Citizen" wasn't targeted for "copyright infringement", but rather to harass Mr. Cramer for his very popular and successful work in the field of the TRUE history and motivation behind the "gun control" movement.

    When people like Cramer become the targets of overt and official government censorship, that means that our side is winning, and they are getting VERY desperate...

    Keep pounding on the Race issue. Keep pounding on the civil rights aspect of Self Defense. We've got the "anti's" on the run, and they are starting to behave like cornered rats...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-27-2010 at 12:36 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    "The Armed Citizen" was run by Claton Cramer--the same guy who wrote "The Racist Roots of Gun Control", and he is also the person responsible for completely discrediting Michael Bellesiles book "Arming America", which led to Bellesiles getting his Bancroft Prize revoked by Columbia University (The ONLY time they've ever done that), and his resignation from Emory University, in disgrace for academic fraud...
    Not because I doubt you at all, I would just like to read more about this, do you have any info handy to point me to?

    TFred

  21. #21
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I thought EVERYONE in the 2A activist community knew about the Michael Bellesiles debacle. It was all over the news for months, and the "gun press" had a bunch of articles about it as well. Even the Washington Post (which is about as Pro-2A as Sarah Brady) was highly critical of Bellesiles when the REAL story came out. He was an embarrassment to the entire academic community, and the exposure of his fraudulent "research" made fools of Columbia University, the anti-2A press, Emory University, and numerous academic journals. It rocked the academic world, although it did not really change the way that the peer-review process really works in academic publishing, which is STILL driven (even after getting burned BADLY by Bellesile's fraud) more by academic politics, socio-political agendas, and catering to their Fascist Internationalist benefactors than doing REAL research based on facts...

    Anyway, here are a bunch of links. I'm not making this stuff up folks. I'm a big fan of Cramer's work, and I've been following him for about 10 years...

    Armed Citizen Website closing announcement:
    http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/


    Cramer's personal website:
    http://www.claytoncramer.com/index.html


    Articles about the Bellesiles debacle:
    http://hnn.us/articles/1185.html

    http://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr2004/denn.html

    http://volokh.com/2010/05/12/michael...ra-conspiracy/

    http://www.wmsa.net/bellesiles.htm


    Cramer's Wiki entry:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Cramer
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-27-2010 at 01:19 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  22. #22
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I thought EVERYONE in the 2A activist community knew about the Michael Bellesiles debacle. It was all over the news for months, and the "gun press" had a bunch of articles about it as well. Even the Washington Post (which is about as Pro-2A as Sarah Brady) was highly critical of Bellesiles when the REAL story came out. He was an embarrassment to the entire academic community, and the exposure of his fraudulent "research" made fools of Columbia University, the anti-2A press, Emory University, and numerous academic journals. It rocked the academic world, although it did not really change the way that the peer-review process really works in academic publishing, which is STILL driven (even after getting burned BADLY by Bellesile's fraud) more by academic politics, socio-political agendas, and catering to their Fascist Internationalist benefactors than doing REAL research based on facts...

    Anyway, here are a bunch of links. I'm not making this stuff up folks. I'm a big fan of Cramer's work, and I've been following him for about 10 years...

    Armed Citizen Website closing announcement:
    http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/


    Cramer's personal website:
    http://www.claytoncramer.com/index.html


    Articles about the Bellesiles debacle:
    http://hnn.us/articles/1185.html

    http://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr2004/denn.html

    http://volokh.com/2010/05/12/michael...ra-conspiracy/

    http://www.wmsa.net/bellesiles.htm


    Cramer's Wiki entry:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Cramer
    Thanks. Wow, I took a look on Amazon, the book is still for sale there, and the reviews are still lauding it as an authoritative work on the subject. Amazing! Now, the reader reviews are accurate, and pretty much describe it as toilet paper... I'm surprised Amazon has not retracted their review by now.

    I've only been "back" in the 2A world for a couple years now. And there are always going to be newbies who haven't heard about this.

    TFred

  23. #23
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    We all need to be aware of this sort of thing...

    As the Constitutionalist movement and the Pro-2A movement begins to realize that the Internet is the "new tar and feathers", and video cameras are the "new pitchforks and torches", the "system" is also ratcheting up their response to anyone who would dare question the status quo, or fight against it, and they have their own "new weapons"...

    Judicial harassment against effective activism is the "new Witch Trials". When law-abiding citizens can be charged with a felony for recording in public, and websites can be taken down through "creative" over-reach of copyright law, it's not just because there are a few overzealous lawyers looking to make a quick buck--the COURTS are actively involved in suppressing effective activism.

    Look at where the 1A is most aggressively under attack: CA, MD, NY, IL, DC. Is it also a coincidence that in those locations, the 2A has been pretty much eliminated?

    Do the math, folks...

    10 (Bill of Rights) - 1 - 2 - 4 - 5 (Amendments) = LESS than 0

    And if we have less than 0 rights, we've got some SERIOUS issues...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Look at where the 1A is most aggressively under attack: CA, MD, NY, IL, DC. Is it also a coincidence that in those locations, the 2A has been pretty much eliminated?
    It is no accident that the list of "two party" recording states pretty much runs like a list of who's who among corrupt state and local governments.

    TFred

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepho...ication_states

    * California
    * Connecticut
    * Florida
    * Illinois
    * Maryland
    * Massachusetts
    * Michigan
    * Montana
    * Nevada
    * New Hampshire
    * Pennsylvania
    * Washington

  25. #25
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    It is no accident that the list of "two party" recording states pretty much runs like a list of who's who among corrupt state and local governments.

    TFred

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepho...ication_states

    * California
    * Connecticut
    * Florida
    * Illinois
    * Maryland
    * Massachusetts
    * Michigan
    * Montana
    * Nevada
    * New Hampshire
    * Pennsylvania
    * Washington

    Of course, the glaring example in that list is NH, which has "Constitutional Carry", and opens EVERY session of their State Government with a vote on whether or not they should stay in the Union...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-27-2010 at 03:19 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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