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Thread: VA Visit

  1. #1
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    VA Visit

    My dad is traveling to Virginia for about a week with a church group. After I talked to him, he has decided that it would be best to take his gun, leaving it in his vehicle, rather than not taking it as he was intending to. Now I'm trying to find out the best way he can do this. I've done a search and read through a few forums, and it seems that he has two options, since, as I said, he wishes to keep it in his vehicle. The options I see are:

    1. Keep it in the vehicle, loaded, and visible, or

    2. Keep it in the vehicle, unloaded, concealed, with the ammunition in a different place than the pistol.

    Please tell me if I am wrong, and what you would recommend.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I presume you mean "in his vehicle" while traveling - not leaving it unattended there, which is definitely not recommended.

    He may OC in Virginia w/o a permit or CC with a recognized permit in all places legal to carry and that includes either circumstance in a vehicle.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, it would have to remain in the vehicle all the time due to rules with the group he is traveling with.

    Carrying is simply not an option, so it's leave it in the vehicle or do not take it at all. He will be the only person with the keys, and it's not a particularly dangerous area or an area with a high rate of crime, so that's not a specific worry. The vehicle will remain locked unless he is there.

    Obviously, not an ideal situation, but what is the best course of action? Right now I've told him both the options listed above, and am not sure what he has decided.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    due to rules
    Rules or LAWS? if it's is RULES.. I would simply tell him to carry concealed (if he can do so legally) and not talk about it. if he must leave a firearm in his car.. it should only be done in a safe of some sort like this:

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  5. #5
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    No CC, safe not possible.

    As I said, not an ideal situation.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    My dad is traveling to Virginia for about a week with a church group. After I talked to him, he has decided that it would be best to take his gun, leaving it in his vehicle, rather than not taking it as he was intending to. Now I'm trying to find out the best way he can do this. I've done a search and read through a few forums, and it seems that he has two options, since, as I said, he wishes to keep it in his vehicle. The options I see are:

    1. Keep it in the vehicle, loaded, and visible, or

    2. Keep it in the vehicle, unloaded, concealed, with the ammunition in a different place than the pistol.

    Please tell me if I am wrong, and what you would recommend.

    Thanks in advance.
    You don't say if your dad has a recognized permit to carry concealed in Virginia, but from the way you worded your option 1, it may be a valid assumption that he does not, because if he did, he would not have to worry about it being visible.

    However, there is a third option, a new law which just took effect in Virginia on July 1st allows him to store a loaded firearm in a "secured" container in the vehicle. The law specifically does not require the container to be "locked" due to the fact that the Governor changed the wording from "locked" to "secured" when he signed the bill into law. This change was then upheld by the General Assembly.

    You may read the new portion of the concealed handgun law in Virginia by looking here, then scroll down to the yellow highlighted portion, which is the pertinent change.

    IANAL, but the general thought is that a glove box or center console that latches closed would be an acceptable place to store a firearm, even without a concealed permit. As noted, this is a brand new law, pretty sure there have been no test cases for it yet to see how the courts will interpret "secured".

    Having said all that, I would strongly agree with the others, and advise against storing a firearm unattended in a vehicle. This change in the CHP law really only helps you while you are traveling in the vehicle with the firearm.

    IANAL, so this is not legal advice!

    TFred

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    Unfortunately, it would have to remain in the vehicle all the time
    Leaving a firearm in a car (without it being in a safe or locked glovebox) is almost as bad as not having it at all.

    Let's say for the moment the window gets smashed and the gun is taken...

    - Now his firearm has been stolen
    - Now a criminal has it
    - Now he has a broken window of a car or rental
    - Now he has to do a police report at a place where the people of his group or place would not have allowed him to carry otherwise because of the "rules".

    My advice would be to just tell him to leave it at home then.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Unfortunate that he is between the proverbial rock and a hard place. but these are the decisions only he can make.

    Gun at home will do him no good while traveling.

    Adherence to "rules" of others won't allow him to carry and no gun safe avail or not an option.

    Secure his gun in a location of his choice. Yes, he can store/secure his gun, loaded or unloaded, disassembled or assembled, with or w/o ammo in a separate container.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Leaving a firearm in a car (without it being in a safe or locked glovebox) is almost as bad as not having it at all.

    Let's say for the moment the window gets smashed and the gun is taken...

    - Now his firearm has been stolen
    - Now a criminal has it
    - Now he has a broken window of a car or rental
    - Now he has to do a police report at a place where the people of his group or place would not have allowed him to carry otherwise because of the "rules".

    My advice would be to just tell him to leave it at home then.
    not to mention the expense of having to replace it.

    I fail to see the point of bringing a weapon you cannot carry. You are more likely to need it outside of the vehicle IMO.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    not to mention the expense of having to replace it.

    I fail to see the point of bringing a weapon you cannot carry. You are more likely to need it outside of the vehicle IMO.
    Better to have it some of the time than none of the time.

  11. #11
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Permits and Alternatives to Firearms

    I'd take it anyway, even if I was limited in the areas I may lawfully carry it. Of course, I'd also have an array of other self-defense mechanisms on or about my person at any given time.

    When is the trip? What's NC's turnaround time on concealment permits? Is it better than VA's turnaround on non-resident permits? Or any other reciprocal state's non-resident permits? However, some states like PA would be out of the question since he'd have to have a permit from his home state before they would issue one.

    Even if your father won't be able to get a CC permit before this trip, put the application in now so that he'll be ready next time. They're usually valid for years at a time.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    No CC, safe not possible.

    As I said, not an ideal situation.
    I would just leave it at home then. Not worth the risk.

  13. #13
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    My dad is traveling to Virginia for about a week with a church group. After I talked to him, he has decided that it would be best to take his gun, leaving it in his vehicle, rather than not taking it as he was intending to. Now I'm trying to find out the best way he can do this. I've done a search and read through a few forums, and it seems that he has two options, since, as I said, he wishes to keep it in his vehicle. The options I see are:

    1. Keep it in the vehicle, loaded, and visible, or

    2. Keep it in the vehicle, unloaded, concealed, with the ammunition in a different place than the pistol.

    Please tell me if I am wrong, and what you would recommend.

    Thanks in advance.
    Some of this has been covered by others, but here is my two cents worth of input.

    1) while traveling a loaded gun can be in a glovebox, center console, or other secured container (like briefcase or luggage). In a holster (on your hip or attached to car) OC-ing is best for access.
    2) A gun safe or trunk is the best place to store the gun when not in a vehicle.
    3) Any gun can be stolen, even if it is in a gun safe, by a person skilled/has-the-right-tools. A crow bar and bolt cutters go a long way. :-(

    I specifically carry a "cheaper" gun when I know I have to leave it in the car. My Taurus which cost $350 would make me less sad if it was stolen than a $1k gun. Personally I would bring the gun and store it as best I could. During off hours he can OC it or have it with him in any hotel room etc.

    It doesn't sound like he will be OC-ing it but since it is a church function I would be leary of carrying in any Federal Gun Free Zone. If he had a CC permit that would be better and less noticeable.

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