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Thread: Tennessee Patriot Published An Article I Wrote

  1. #1
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    Tennessee Patriot Published An Article I Wrote

    The second issue of the Tennessee Patriot came out this month with an article I wrote concerning what I thought were the real fears of the anti-gunners regarding "The Return of the Old Wild West."

    The entire publication can be viewed in PDF format at www.tennesseepatriot.net (use the "quarterly Paper" link and look for the 2nd issue. My article is on page 13

    Or

    I have attached the article by itself in PDF.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Good article - nicely thought out.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Thanks Grape. I've just started another one that I plan to submit for the next issue that will come out in October. This one will be promoting OC and attempting to get more Tennesseans to "come out of the closet."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Task Force 16 View Post
    The second issue of the Tennessee Patriot came out this month with an article I wrote concerning what I thought were the real fears of the anti-gunners regarding "The Return of the Old Wild West."
    You're full of **** Jerry Morris. "To those that fret about the return of “the Old Wild West
    Days” I say SUCK IT UP! Bring on those Good Old “Wild West” Ways!"

    You're the type who would probably call the cops on someone who legally open carries. I meant WILL call not probably. You're more anti than a Brady.
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    Regular Member HvyMtl's Avatar
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    I find, even though I have been here, what, today, I am starting to ignore the rants of the person above. Seems he cannot stand a simple question.

    Interesting article.

    I am wondering why you use the term "marxist" to describe the opponents of gun control. What made you come to this decision? (Curious, not against the viewpoint...)

    Why do we drive on the right, instead of the left, like Europe? Simple, you protected your pistol from being grabbed by a passer by while on horseback this way. They would have to reach across your body to get it...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HvyMtl View Post
    I am wondering why you use the term "marxist" to describe the opponents of gun control. What made you come to this decision? (Curious, not against the viewpoint...)

    ...
    Don't you mean the PROpponants of gun control?

    Considering that I have heard time and time again liberal politicians that are pro gun control, quote Karl Marx, "From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs," (from Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto) I thought it appropriate use of the term.

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    Regular Member HvyMtl's Avatar
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    Ah. Ok. Good answer. Yes, I meant the proponents... Sigh. What you get when half asleep and type. Just this day and age, so many people toss around this term and socialism, communism, and others without actually knowing what they mean.

    Good article.
    Last edited by HvyMtl; 08-12-2010 at 04:16 PM.

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    I have to admit that while the article seems to read well, my observations of your individual character on here seems to be enough to put one into a state of perplexion.

    During the days of the "Wild West", it was common to see revolvers carried in the hand from store to store. Even to see rifles slung over ones back.

    Hell, even transports had their own designated riflemen.

    Yet you have, in the past, attacked other people for doing these same exact things. You paint this picture of noble purpose in retuning to the moral tenents of the "Wild West", to which I would agree. Then you attack those who behave in the same manner.

    I'm sorry TF16, but your article comes across as false at best. A highly inaccurate depiction of your true personality and beliefs through overdramatic dictation at worse.

    --Would you call the cops on somebody walking down the street with a shouldered/slung rifle?
    Yeah. You would. Yet this was common practice in the "Old Wild West".

    --Would you submit to law enforcement as a purported example of mental deficiency, any individual choosing to carry a pistol in the hand, even where law demands it?
    Yes. Yes you would. Yet this was commonplace in the "Old Wild West".



    For an individual doing absolutely nothing but carrying a slung handgun, in a completely legal manner, as well as being ordered to the ground at the end of a shotgun by a park ranger, you stated this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Task Force 16 View Post
    Pace, kwik has executed 2 events so far that have resulted in warrented encounters with LEO. I think the LEO handled the situation fairly well. kwik doesn't agree.

    But both actions carried the potential for an engagement with another armed citizen that may not have reacted correctly. Either one of kwiks excursions could have gone bad in several ways, before LEO ever got involved. Nothing bad happened, but the actions were still questionable from a motivationalstandpoint.
    Thats a pretty normal thing to see in the "Old Wild West", but somehow, while lobbying for a return to said "Old Wild West", you simultaneously reject any action that is perfectly period normal.

    Can you explain this conundrum?


    Here again, you are describing how a "normal handgun" is acceptable, and imposing a "reasonable restriction" on what should be carried, by lending credibility to stereotypical or inaccurate thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Task Force 16 View Post

    No luck involved. The .44 mag revolver is a conventional handgun. The AK pistol, although technically a "handgun" by it's construction, is not a conventional handgun. It's a novelty. The park rangers weren't expecting anyone to carry such a weapon and obviously didn't know its categorization.

    If you expect every LEO to know about every weapon that has ever been made in the world, you are living in a dream world. Many are not firearms enthusiast and therefore do not keep up with all the latest weapons on the market.And they're not required to.
    So. Let's return to the "Old Wild West", so long as we leave out shouldered shotguns, purported "assault rifles", "abnormally shaped pistols", and standardized long guns. Right?

    That's not the "Old Wild West". That's "individually specific fantasy-land.".

    Sorry, but the whole thing reads as a projected "feel good" article.

    Otherwise, you would not make so many concessions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    What amazes me is that such a poorly-written article, full of both spelling and grammatical errors, was published in any sort of paper (even if it is some up-and-coming rag no one's ever heard of.) Did no one bother to proofread it before it went to press and/or was posted on the site?

    A fifth-grade student would be lucky to skate by with a passing grade after turning in a paper like that. I mean, it's one thing to play it fast and loose with grammar and spelling when you're just BS'ing with someone on an internet forum, but this is, presumably, something you want to be taken seriously.
    Last edited by LV XD9; 08-12-2010 at 06:29 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowfiveoh View Post
    So. Let's return to the "Old Wild West", so long as we leave out shouldered shotguns, purported "assault rifles", "abnormally shaped pistols", and standardized long guns. Right?
    .
    Let's cut to the chase on this:

    LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. ............................. and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Let's cut to the chase on this:

    LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. ............................. and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    Let's cut to the real chase:

    IN RELATION TO KWIKS CARRY, THE CORRELATION IS RELEVANT ON THIS SITE!:

    #1.
    Having a conversation about idealism centered around a common time period and way of life, and then picking what you like out of it, detracts WHOLLY from the overall message of "Let's go back to that time period"!

    You can't sit here and talk about the "Old Wild West", making correlations to the respectful way of life there and all activities in it, YET ADHERE TO THE IDEOLOGY THAT ALL WAS SUCH BECAUSE PEOPLE CARRIED "Normal, holstered handguns in daily life"!


    #2. Kwiks activities in general were in complete compliance with anything that would have occurred in the "Old Wild West"!

    Yet he was ostracized for them. I am sensing a tinge of the hypocritical.


    I believe the intent was good, but I don't think Task Force 16 really knows what he believes. If the people here honestly think that you can preach about a time period where people, good, honest, and hardworking genuine freedom loving Americans, walked up and down the street with rifles on their backs, shotguns on their shoulders, pistols in their hands, and then simultaneously talk about how wonderful the "Old Wild West" was in an attempt to support your very narrow focus of "Properly holstered normal handguns in daily life", then you are dismissing the very point of the 2nd Amendment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  12. #12
    TN-treefrmr
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    Properly Holstered Handguns being openly carried.
    That leaves out KWIK and if you support KWIK you would be included in being excluded.
    The fun thing is that people like KWIK and his supporters liven up the conversation around here and bring more people to the site.
    Being an Old Man, if I had been in the area where Kwik decided to promote his right to offensively carry a weapon I would have been at ready and fired with the least movement on his part as I am of the opinion that if you draw a weapon it is to shoot it or to clean it. As the later did not appear to be the case I would not have called the law because I would have felt threatened and in immediate danger. Flight may have been available but putting a hazard at your back is not a way to continue living.
    Once upon a time I was approached by a person with a gun in the hand. He ended up with a broken gun and hand and I spent time in the hospital because I was not armed then. He was smiling and talking as if he knew me when he approached.

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    Regular Member HvyMtl's Avatar
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    slowfiveoh, Kwik's shenanigans is off the topic of the thread.

    The point which in the old west had people carry, and had armed guards, well... where to start.

    Yes, back in the old west, the civilized viewpoint was lawful citizens needed to carry to protect themselves and property. This was part of the point of the article. The other part is we need to get back to that view.

    AS for armed guards, well, those are still around. Look at the next time a Brinks truck delivers cash. Well accepted, due to the rent-a-cop being in uniform...

    As for personally attacking the OP, well that is also off topic, and against the forum rules. Since I am not an admin here, I can only give my opinion on their rule. But, if you attack the poster, you only prove their point. And prove you are a poor debater.

    OFF TOPIC: As for the extremely valid point TN-treefrmr makes about if someone approached him, in the manner similar to what Kwik did, shows how dangerous Kwik's actions were. And points to validity to the Dept of Safety's action of revoking his privilege. Luckily for Kwik, the officers he approached are more constrained by the law than his former fellow permit holders. I would have pointedly asked Kwik what he was doing, if he was a permit holder, and would have placed cover (not concealment) between us. My hand would have been on my 45, and the holster strap would have been snapped open.
    Last edited by HvyMtl; 08-13-2010 at 11:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    Properly Holstered Handguns being openly carried.
    That leaves out KWIK and if you support KWIK you would be included in being excluded.
    Your ignorant presumption of what constitutes "Properly Holstered" is making me laugh.

    Slung is indeed properly holstered for handguns that do not have a holster solution.


    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    The fun thing is that people like KWIK and his supporters liven up the conversation around here and bring more people to the site.
    No, not buy any stretch of the senile imagination.

    The truly fun thing is watching people denigrate a law abiding citizen because of their discomfort of his wholly legal activity, then simultaneously profess to be supporters of the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights. It is especially funny, TN-treefrmr, when derelicts like yourself come on and bash the Anti's for "irrational fear" on the same basis of whole and complete support of the 2nd Amendment.

    When that argument is not enough to sway them, they defer to site rules like conversational cowards, swaying away from the true concepts of the 2nd Amendment in favor of hiding behind John and Mikes segregated support system for the 2nd Amendment.

    It's just easier than facing reality.

    Hello Mr. Brady. Here is your chair. Have a seat.

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    Being an Old Man, if I had been in the area where Kwik decided to promote his right to offensively carry a weapon I would have been at ready and fired with the least movement on his part as I am of the opinion that if you draw a weapon it is to shoot it or to clean it. As the later did not appear to be the case I would not have called the law because I would have felt threatened and in immediate danger. Flight may have been available but putting a hazard at your back is not a way to continue living.
    And you would have been wrong. Even if the "clean-up" went in your favor, you have just displayed the kind of moral inadequacy present in those who are patently against the exercising of our rights.

    I am sure it would have been kwiks fault that your ignorance of THE LAW would have been the precise reason for your killing of an innocent man.

    Reality check for you:

    It would have been ILLEGAL for your to carry your weapon in a holster, or even concealed according to pre-McDonald Bell Meade law!

    Do you get this?

    Are you smart enough to grasp this?

    I sure hope so. Quite a few others aren't bright enough to comprehend this.

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    Once upon a time I was approached by a person with a gun in the hand. He ended up with a broken gun and hand and I spent time in the hospital because I was not armed then. He was smiling and talking as if he knew me when he approached.
    Wow, you are a super-ninja!

    Do you throw smoke-bombs and apply well placed karate kicks disassembling the falling weapons slide, magazine, and safety assembly on the way down?

    Damn you're hilarious.

    Stay around, I like you!

    Quote Originally Posted by HvyMtl View Post
    slowfiveoh, Kwik's shenanigans is off the topic of the thread...
    There is no desire to continue a debate about kwiks specific actions in here, other than to specify with great clarity that the Utopian dream that was the trusting, safe, familial environment of the "Old Wild West" cannot be limited in perspective to the carry of "Properly holstered, normal handguns in daily life".

    That was NOT the specific intent of the 2nd Amendment, nor was the environment presented by the "Old Wild West" one of exclusively holstered "normal" handguns. To avoid the reality of other firearms and the environment created by such liberal exercising of the 2nd Amendment, is to UNDERMINE the 2nd itself, and as many singular organizations do to much ballyhooing, present limitations on an outright freedom.

    Saying otherwise is definitely presumptive ignorance.

    As to "armed guards", you completely, and totally miss the point.

    I am referring to those accompanying wagon trains and the like, who simply acted as armed escorts with no law or business affiliation. I am referring to those people who truly acted in a capacity as neighbor and lookout.

    In final response to your comment about Bell Meade, you would be JUST AS WRONG as TN-treefrmr as well. You would be breaking the law, and kill an innocent man over your "discomfort".

    TN-treefrmr reeks of macho attitude. I have no doubt his breaking of said law, and slaying of an innocent man, would be a bravado laden attempt to prove a point.

    Perhaps, he could prove his point from a 6x9 with an effeminate cellmate. Maybe this would make him feel like "the man".
    Last edited by slowfiveoh; 08-13-2010 at 11:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    We are guests here and follow, not make, the rules and that is the point.

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    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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  16. #16
    Regular Member HvyMtl's Avatar
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    ah, clarification. You stated transports, not families in wagon trains moving west. Transports indicate corporate or business involvement. Like stagecoaches, where the fellow riding shotgun was paid to do so.

    Seriously, personal attacks? Poor practice. This is the internet, you have no clue who is on the other side of your keyboard. Violation of the rules.

    Fail.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HvyMtl View Post
    ah, clarification. You stated transports, not families in wagon trains moving west. Transports indicate corporate or business involvement. Like stagecoaches, where the fellow riding shotgun was paid to do so.

    Seriously, personal attacks? Poor practice. This is the internet, you have no clue who is on the other side of your keyboard. Violation of the rules.

    Fail.
    Incorrect.

    A transport is any conveyance meant to move large amounts of people or supplies. This does not in any way imply it has to have business or governmental association.

    Definition fail.

    Also, personal attacks?

    You mean like making it clear that you and another individual would shoot somebody dead for lawful carry while YOU were acting in a criminal manner?

    I wonder if questionably ad-hominem commentary is more egregious in nature than stating you would blatantly kill somebody for merely having a pistol in their hand and "sneezing"?

    Internet tough guy alert!

    Also, just as your commentary towards kwik is painfully simple and single minded, did the thought not occur to you that maybe kwik is a human being, on the other side of the keyboard?

    I am betting you don't care, because your mind is made up.

    So lets summarize you and TN-treefrmr right quick:

    --Would carry illegally
    --Would shoot a lawful citizen for simply carrying a firearm
    --TN-treefrmr has broken a guys wrist for merely walking towards him with a pistol (What a ninja!)


    Let me know when you decide you want a truly bipartisan debate. Just like every individual before you over the past year of this, you will slink back into the precipice of ambiguous and selective enforcement of laws, and that the "carry of a normally holstered gun" is what should have been done in Bell Meade despite it's illegality.

    Let's see.

    Test #1:

    Who is acting unsafe in these images?

    This gentleman:


    or

    This officer:


    I'm betting the officer was a-ok peachy keen in this video.

    Right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  18. #18
    TN-treefrmr
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    I had no option back then but to push the gun out of my face and into a wall which broke the persons hand. However his buddies ended up putting me in the hospital for a couple of weeks. I have been aware since then and a weapon being carried at ready is a hazard to all around. You being in Washington I am sure you took the Carry class in the state of Tennessee and are aware of the local laws I carry where I am permitted to carry and ignore the Blue Laws that were meant for another time. I have never attempted to lasso a fish though but that would be the same as snaring and that is unsportsmanlike.
    A person who approaches you with a weapon drawn or at ready puts you in a life or death situation. You have less than a second to respond to the threat. Placing your hand on your weapon is a provocative move so it requires you to follow through and face the consequences because you are probably also protecting a loved one who is walking with you.
    Back to the Wild West. You seem to lack an understanding of history and commerce. The wagon trains hired a guide to lead them to the west and that was a business situation as they also hired guards to protect them but that would have also been business. Individuals who could afford weapons carried them for protection but it was primarily rifles that could be used for hunting rather than handguns that are designed to kill people.
    As I stated before I have no problem with people carrying weapons in a non threatening manner. I also believe that the more law abiding people that carry weapons the lower the crime rate will be. That being said I also think with the current unrest within our society it has become necessary to obtain permits to carry weapons just as a means to review a persons legal status to carry.
    As far as reverting back to the old west mentality. I think there are to many myths about the old west to know what really happened during those times.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    I had no option back then but to push the gun out of my face and into a wall which broke the persons hand. However his buddies ended up putting me in the hospital for a couple of weeks.
    This is NOT how you initially described it!

    You are starting to sound like a certain swine-fellow.


    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    I have been aware since then and a weapon being carried at ready is a hazard to all around.
    Do you understand, "Carried at the ready?".

    No. You really don't. If you DO, then you clearly misperceived what Leonard actually DID.

    He is carrying the firearm in the hand. He is not brandishing it:

    bran·dish (brndsh)tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es 1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
    2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.

    n. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.


    THIS, is not a brandish:


    Neither is what Leonard did while carrying the AK.

    Yet you would shoot him, as you have stated many times.


    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    You being in Washington I am sure you took the Carry class in the state of Tennessee and are aware of the local laws I carry where I am permitted to carry and ignore the Blue Laws that were meant for another time.
    Ah yes! The old, "You don't live here so you don't know" argument.

    Newsflash! This just in!

    Apparently, the law, is the LAW. Slipping by in cities that specify you must carry the Army or Navy Colt Revolver in hand with a gun on your hip makes you a criminal. "Blue Laws" or not.

    So thanks for admitting that you break the law, and you don't even care when you do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    I have never attempted to lasso a fish though but that would be the same as snaring and that is unsportsmanlike.
    If the law prohibits you from lassoing a fish, then please don't. That would make you a criminal.
    If the law allows for you to attempt to lasso a fish, then lasso to your hearts desire. May no law enforcement officers give you grief for abiding by the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    A person who approaches you with a weapon drawn or at ready puts you in a life or death situation.
    I love hearing advice from tactically unsound minds.

    A weapon drawn is not a threat. This stupidity will get you killed. What if the guy is drawing his firearm because he sees a guy with an ice pick walking up behind you ready to shank you in the neck, and you draw and blow this guy away?

    Acceptable friendly fire as you die in a pool of your own blood by being stabbed by icepick, right?

    A weapon at the ready I would agree with. Again ,your situational awareness and tactical prowess should enable you to avoid these scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    You have less than a second to respond to the threat.
    Wrong.

    You have less than a second to make a decision, and evaluate. Unfortunately, you may end up dead if you hesitate. Also as unfortunate, is seeing someone walking towards you "at the ready" and creating a bunghole in their head and learning they were actually trying to protect you, or your loved one.

    This all goes back to good situational awareness and tactical response.

    You seem very trigger happy to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    Placing your hand on your weapon is a provocative move so it requires you to follow through and face the consequences because you are probably also protecting a loved one who is walking with you.
    Again, you need significant training. I would not trust being around you.

    Please apply to tactical schools immediately.


    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    Back to the Wild West. You seem to lack an understanding of history and commerce. The wagon trains hired a guide to lead them to the west and that was a business situation as they also hired guards to protect them but that would have also been business.
    You play too much "Oregon Trail".

    Private individuals comprised the entirety of the wagon parties in most cases. Not all were accompanied by dedicated trackers. Often agreements were made as to who would do what role, and a compromise would be reached.

    This makes it no more a business, than me selling my car to a neighbor makes me a car salesman.

    Did you know it was not uncommon for wagon trains to separate over vast distances?

    Did you not know that in these situations it was solely up to the frontiersman and women to fend for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    Individuals who could afford weapons carried them for protection but it was primarily rifles that could be used for hunting rather than handguns that are designed to kill people.
    Thanks for substantiating heavily, one of my primary points. However, the statement that handguns are "designed to kill people" is completely incorrect.

    Handguns are meant as a defensive measure. It does not matter whether the target is animal, or human. You can even eat an animal.

    I'd imagine a Peacemaker would make a great tool to quickly dispatch of a stock cattle, were the almighty sledgehammer to come up missing or lost.

    I don't know where some of you come up with the "Designed to kill people" bit.

    Keep in mind there were several rounds used in rifles to hunt back then that are significantly less powerful than modern handguns. Some modern handguns are nearly as accurate too.

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    As I stated before I have no problem with people carrying weapons in a non threatening manner.
    Like on the back, pointed straight down and no other direction in the hand, or resting on ones chest with no hands near the firearm?

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    I also believe that the more law abiding people that carry weapons the lower the crime rate will be.
    So long as they are strictly regulated "weapons" of your stringent choosing and analysis.

    Yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    That being said I also think with the current unrest within our society it has become necessary to obtain permits to carry weapons just as a means to review a persons legal status to carry.
    And this is perfectly acceptable to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    As far as reverting back to the old west mentality. I think there are to many myths about the old west to know what really happened during those times.
    Then you are watching too many westerns.


    Here is a good start:

    http://www.wildwesthistory.org/
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  20. #20
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    HvyMtl and Tn Treefrmr, If you haven't already guessed it is pointless to argue with slow, as he is the blind follower of kwik. As it stands at the moment Common Sense is prevailing in the Kwikrnu Drama, with the recent decision of the AG regarding the Sheriff of Williamson County. I suspect this common sense trend will continue through all of Leonards frivolous lawsuits. I have enjoyed reading your posts over last few days....keep up the good work.

  21. #21
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    Deadpool2

    This is almost as much fun as discussing AGW with those believers. Make statements and allow them to make fools of themselves by selectively picking what they want to respond to.
    At work the crew produced a sign that said:
    Arguing with #### is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. In the end you get dirty and you come to realize #### is enjoying it!
    Slow:
    I have read the so called history books which are comprised of rumors and myths and have been rewritten many times to be more Politically Correct. The answer lies somewhere in the middle or maybe more to the worst case scenario. I lived in the west and my sister was a history major who got her degree at the age of 50 and she specialized in the "Old West" period. Once her daughter was raised she went back for a degree as a hobby. I retired in Tennessee because that is where my family is from along with other considerations. I ruled out the Left Coast because of what I saw as a NANNY State in that region. You should be more concerned about your own state and the controls they have imposed.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadpool2 View Post
    HvyMtl and Tn Treefrmr, If you haven't already guessed it is pointless to argue with slow, as he is the blind follower of kwik...
    i.e. "Hi guys, I am deadpool. I have never been able to refute anything with logic, or critical thinking, and have even denigrated myself to troll status. I will go ahead and pat you on the back TN-treefrmr for not attempting any sort of reasonable or logical debate, and caving into emotive fear."

    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    This is almost as much fun as discussing AGW with those believers. Make statements and allow them to make fools of themselves by selectively picking what they want to respond to.
    I know right?!

    It's like making yourself look like an idiot ass by saying things like:

    --An AK pistol is an urban assault weapon!
    --31 rounds?! OH NOES!
    --It's not in a holster? OH MY GOD I MUST SHOOTS HIM IN THE FACE!
    --I karate chopped a mans hand because he came at me with a pistol and said, "Hi, how are you doing today sir?".




    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    At work the crew produced a sign that said:
    Arguing with #### is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. In the end you get dirty and you come to realize #### is enjoying it!
    I agree. Your slop is quite filthy.

    The overwhelming difference is, a pig may have more of an intelligible argument.




    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    Slow:
    I have read the so called history books which are comprised of rumors and myths and have been rewritten many times to be more Politically Correct.
    Yes.

    You are the only human being who has read a history book on the wild west. I too like to state that the books are wrong at points where I do not agree with them. /sarcasm

    This is why listening to dissertations by reputable historians is ultimately one of the best things you can do to increase your knowledge of the "Old West". If you didn't know, California has a plethora of historians specializing in said field. They don't just have their degree crackerjack, but they render their experience at Californias historical monuments.

    It is their perspective that I trust well above and beyond yours.

    BUT, if you have proof that almost all "Wild West" books have been "rewritten, please post it.




    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    The answer lies somewhere in the middle or maybe more to the worst case scenario.
    That's right. More to the worse case scenario.

    i.e.
    --Public transports were not a viable option 99% of the time.
    --Not everybody could afford a holster, AND a gun.
    --Not everybody carried a pistol. In fact, long guns were usually cheaper.




    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    I lived in the west and my sister was a history major who got her degree at the age of 50 and she specialized in the "Old West" period. Once her daughter was raised she went back for a degree as a hobby.
    Oh well that just makes you a history expert by proxy!



    Quote Originally Posted by TN-treefrmr View Post
    I retired in Tennessee because that is where my family is from along with other considerations. I ruled out the Left Coast because of what I saw as a NANNY State in that region. You should be more concerned about your own state and the controls they have imposed.
    Again with the "You stay in Washington" bs.

    Ok TN-treefrmr. I will stay in Washington, which you refer to as the "nanny-state".

    --Where I can open carry with no permission slip.
    --Where I can go to random gravel pits and discharge my AR

    Just another instance of you not knowing your posterior from a void chasm in terra firma.


    Every state is my interest. Were you bright enough to grasp the fundamentals behind the concepts of the 2nd Amendment, you would realize this is a universal struggle.

    The permit system which you have attempted to validate, in the state of Tennessee, as being "necessary", is an affront to the true meaning of the 2nd. It is shameful that your state has not offered a "free solution" of any sort to practice your 2nd Amendment rights.

    Then again TN-treefrmr, you and your pathetic social circle have deemed that:

    --Ak's are evil assault puppy killers
    --30 rounds is excessive (But carrying 2 18 round magazines is ok, amirite?)
    --Carrying in accordance with the law is "Bad". Violating said law and carrying like a criminal, is "Good". (Your words, not mine.)

    SO no TN-treefrmr.

    I think I will continue to point out the obvious debauchery in yours, and your cohorts post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  23. #23
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    Here are the cold hard facts that Kwik and his followers continue to ignore. Furthermore, the points that were made to begin with and how it's impossible to believe Kwik is doing all this for the greater good of gun rights.

    1. Kwik, as of now, is labeled as a liar. He has been caught several times seemingly forgetting things he has posted in the past which in turn throw him for a "loop". First it was the post at tncivilcity, which he has STILL neither confirmed nor DENIED he authored. Thus (until he finally answers the question) catching him in a lie. (This is the same time his most infamous follower Slow stated he was done with Kwik and couldn't abide by a liar) Then Jadon comes along. Posts numerous well thought, researched points in reference to Kwiks actions and affiliation in areas which would cause anyone to say "hmm". An ALLEGED arrest is brought up. Kwik denies (and still denies) every being arrested. Kwik in turn forces a law enforcement agency to determine a bolo is open record. In this bolo it mentions an arrest, bringing weight to the allegation. An old news broadcast (online) even mentions he was involved in a domestic incident where an order of protection was taken out, causing his permit to be suspended. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out there might have been a domestic violence arrest to cause such action. Kwik gets a perfect opportunity to question the validity of the bolo in a recorded meeting with the department, yet not ONCE does he ask where the information comes from. Why that was not the first and only question is mind boggling. Instead he argues that releasing such information is a crime (even though he is the person who forced it to be that way) and wishes to file a complaint. Kwik is asked to cite the law where it states this is a crime and why it matters if the information is false. I know everyone is shocked, but of course... no answer. That being said, I will not sit here and believe he is here for the benefit of gun rights.

    2. Kwik has caused every single confrontation he has had with LEO's. The fact he plans such confrontation and in turn sues at the end, tells me this is nothing more than a way to make money. He even goes on TV and states he just wants to be left alone and that he is a PRIVATE person....lie.

    3. Kwik has edited old posts, deleted pictures and tried to re-word previous statements to fit a current "agenda".

    4. NOT ONCE HAS ANYONE SAID WHAT HE DID WAS ILLEGAL. Odd, unnecessary, stupid... yes.

    5. Kwik (and Slow) is by far the most defaming person on this forum. Yet Slow gets a slap on the wrist and even though Kwik is obviously using this forum as a rant for his strange behavior, they are both still allowed to post here. Slow, we get it... we are all ignorant. However, you're the one abiding by someone who has the flag of a liar, thus your credibility is gone.

    6. Kwik is the ONLY person to post hard copied documents about him, and then rants about it being public. What’s the point?

    You keep on the heels of your knight in shining armor there Slow, tbqn, Thundar, McX etc... There is no debating with you folks. It always comes back to the same thing.... "What laws were broke" ... Again... none... we (I) never said there were.
    Last edited by Grassroots; 08-14-2010 at 12:17 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    Here are the cold hard facts that Kwik and his followers continue to ignore. Furthermore, the points that were made to begin with and how it's impossible to believe Kwik is doing all this for the greater good of gun rights.
    (Now in Grassroots vision!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    1. Kwik, as of now, is labeled as a liar. He has been caught several times seemingly forgetting things he has posted in the past which in turn throw him for a "loop".
    Cite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    First it was the post at tncivilcity, which he has STILL neither confirmed nor DENIED he authored. Thus (until he finally answers the question) catching him in a lie.
    Omitting an answer is not the same as a lie. Your dramatic, effeminate attachment to what may or may not have been done, is duly noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    (This is the same time his most infamous follower Slow stated he was done with Kwik and couldn't abide by a liar)
    While simultaneously being shown that Kwik was banned from the vast majority of those forums prior to the edits taking place, hence meaning it is an admin or moderator edit.

    How can you edit a post, or alter a post under a specific username, AFTER you have been banned?

    Can you answer this? No. You are incapable of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    Then Jadon comes along. Posts numerous well thought, researched points in reference to Kwiks actions and affiliation in areas which would cause anyone to say "hmm".
    Numerous and "well thought out" because they agree with your point of view. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    An ALLEGED arrest is brought up.
    Incorrect. Jadon makes commentary directly specifying that kwik has been charged with a crime in the past.

    Jadon then refuses to post his "proof" of said accusation, because said proof is under lock and key in a personnel file that is outside of FOIA mandates:

    Citation for proof -

    5 U.S.C.§ 552(b)

    (b)(6) EXEMPTION - Personal Information Affecting an Individual's Privacy
    This exemption permits the government to withhold all information about individuals in "personnel and medical files and similar files" when the disclosure of such information " would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy." This exemption cannot be invoked to withhold from a requester information pertaining to the requester.

    (b)(7) EXEMPTION - Investigatory Records Compiled for Law Enforcement Purposes
    As amended, this exemption protects from disclosure "records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes.


    EXEMPTION 7(A) Records or information that could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings. This exemption authorizes the withholding of "records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that production of such law enforcement records or information ... could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings."


    EXEMPTION 7(B) Disclosure which would deprive a person of a fair trial or an impartial adjudication. Records that would prevents prejudicial pretrial publicity that could impair a court proceeding, protects "records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes [the disclosure of which] would deprive a person of the right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication."

    Yet you cannot, and will not concede that this action is illegal, and egregious in nature.

    Just like the majority of you evade the officers EXTREMELY DANGEROUS handling of an unfamiliar firearm during the Bell Meade encounter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    Kwik denies (and still denies) every being arrested.
    He was never arrested.

    He was charged with a crime, and the charge was dropped due to a severe lack of evidence on the prosecutions behalf. One does not have to be arrested to be subpoenad.

    He even posted that he had his record sealed. The judge was not going to seal it using the same BS lack of following THE LAW that the officers in both cases have done. They were going to attempt to use a case of DROPPED CHARGES and UNSUBSTANTIATED claims to denigrate Leonards character.

    The judge broke the law, and failed to perform his duty. Until Leonard followed up with the court administrator, and then the judge called him immediately back into session the next morning, apologized to Leonard for not performing his duty.

    He then expunged the record, as he was required to do by law.

    Want audio? It's on youtube.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    Kwik in turn forces a law enforcement agency to determine a bolo is open record. In this bolo it mentions an arrest, bringing weight to the allegation.
    Cite in accordance with site rules:


    • (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    An old news broadcast (online) even mentions he was involved in a domestic incident where an order of protection was taken out, causing his permit to be suspended.
    Ex Parte orders of protection that were later summarily dismissed due to excessive, overdramatic response and games on behalf of the complainant.

    Leonard got ripped off in a business transaction for an item that was locked and unusable. The seller attempted very hard to state that the item was not for use on his Buick Roadmaster, when in fact IT WAS the EXACT MODEL of hypertech for his Buick.

    That is cold hard fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out there might have been a domestic violence arrest to cause such action.
    No it just takes wild supposition to assume an arrest was ever made. It takes even more denigration and absence of critical thought, to assume that all charges against any human being at any given time assure their criminality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    Kwik gets a perfect opportunity to question the validity of the bolo in a recorded meeting with the department, yet not ONCE does he ask where the information comes from. Why that was not the first and only question is mind boggling.
    Why would you when the record was expunged?

    Couldn't he spend his time more wisely on other topics?

    You want him to bring up something that isn't even part of his case anymore?

    Why would he do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    Instead he argues that releasing such information is a crime (even though he is the person who forced it to be that way) and wishes to file a complaint.
    There is no exception where it is "ok" to wantonly throw around a persons record, especially when it is expunged, and in direct defiance of the FOIA exceptions specified.

    So Leonard argued correctly.

    Here it is again, in case you think you know what you are talking about again:

    (b)(6) EXEMPTION - Personal Information Affecting an Individual's Privacy
    This exemption permits the government to withhold all information about individuals in "personnel and medical files and similar files" when the disclosure of such information " would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy." This exemption cannot be invoked to withhold from a requester information pertaining to the requester.

    (b)(7) EXEMPTION - Investigatory Records Compiled for Law Enforcement Purposes
    As amended, this exemption protects from disclosure "records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes.


    EXEMPTION 7(A) Records or information that could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings. This exemption authorizes the withholding of "records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that production of such law enforcement records or information ... could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings."


    EXEMPTION 7(B) Disclosure which would deprive a person of a fair trial or an impartial adjudication. Records that would prevents prejudicial pretrial publicity that could impair a court proceeding, protects "records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes [the disclosure of which] would deprive a person of the right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication."


    EXEMPTION 7(C) Personal Information in Law Enforcement Records. This exemption provides protection for personal information in law enforcement records. This exemption is the law enforcement counterpart to Exemption 6, providing protection for law enforcement information the disclosure of which "could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy."




    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    Kwik is asked to cite the law where it states this is a crime and why it matters if the information is false.
    Oh well good golly gee. The legality of the release of such information is so extremely difficult to look up on your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    I know everyone is shocked, but of course... no answer. That being said, I will not sit here and believe he is here for the benefit of gun rights.
    Then you have not seen his commentary in other sections of the forum. He very clearly believes that there should be no imposition of law that denies the keeping and bearing of arms as the Constitution specifies. That is to say, "Not Infringed".

    He has never at any point made any egregious comment towards any open carrier on here as to their activity of open carrying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    2. Kwik has caused every single confrontation he has had with LEO's. The fact he plans such confrontation and in turn sues at the end, tells me this is nothing more than a way to make money. He even goes on TV and states he just wants to be left alone and that he is a PRIVATE person....lie.
    He operates within the confines of the law, testing law enforcements response to completely legal activities. He may TRULY DESIRE to be left alone. His intent is obviously to invoke only responses that would validate the belief that most law enforcement officials care little for constitutional rights, and are ready to even violate the law to enforce mind crimes.

    He has made a hell of a point to this end, as he is stopped repeatedly for legal activity.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    3. Kwik has edited old posts, deleted pictures and tried to re-word previous statements to fit a current "agenda".
    Something os sutterly hilarious about you guys pointing out that he has, "Been banned on nearly every forum he has been on", and then accuse him of "editing old posts" on said banned forum.

    Not the brightest bunch of bananas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    4. NOT ONCE HAS ANYONE SAID WHAT HE DID WAS ILLEGAL. Odd, unnecessary, stupid... yes.
    Ah yes. The old adage that law is liberally applied and duties are ominous and ambiguous in nature. Officers may cross the line of what is legally occurring when they are not "comfortable" with it, or it seems "unusual".

    "Feelings" are everything, right? Law is emotively based by your assessment. Feelings drive the disposition of duties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    5. Kwik (and Slow) is by far the most defaming person on this forum. Yet Slow gets a slap on the wrist and even though Kwik is obviously using this forum as a rant for his strange behavior, they are both still allowed to post here. Slow, we get it... we are all ignorant. However, you're the one abiding by someone who has the flag of a liar, thus your credibility is gone.
    Hey there buddy. I've put my ass in the blender for many fine Americans, and had them do the same for me. I love this nation, and I love the principles upon which it was founded.

    My credibility is EXCELLENT.

    Furthermore, your comment in and of itself is a vile attack. Kwik has been VERY POLITE on this forum. In fact, many would say excessively so, because he is constantly under attack by fear mongering individuals like yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    6. Kwik is the ONLY person to post hard copied documents about him, and then rants about it being public. What’s the point?
    The point is transparency.

    You can't see it because you LOVE law enforcement and would abide any irrational or unlawful activity on their behalf.

    It is comical to me that two of the largest anti-kwik entities posting on this forum right now, admit to having SEVERELY close ties to law enforcement and the judicial system.

    Leonard may post what HE LIKES about himself at any time. That is his discretion. It is NOT appropriate for the government to act outside of regulation or duty, in an attempt to incriminate a law abiding citizen, whom you yourself admit is law abiding by confirming he has broken no laws.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    You keep on the heels of your knight in shining armor there Slow, tbqn, Thundar, McX etc...
    Is this a thinly veiled homosexuality joke or what? Yes. Yes it is.

    You and your ilk have been doing this subtly inserted verbiage and ad-hominem crap for a while. Hence my straightforward responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots View Post
    There is no debating with you folks. It always comes back to the same thing.... "What laws were broke" ... Again... none... we (I) never said there were.
    Thanks for confirming kwiks law abiding status.

    There is no debating with us because we ask for factual representation, while you and your friends cling to the emotional and dramatic.

    "OH NO ITS GOT 31 ROUNDS!"

    "I have to build a bunch of metaphorical bridges to believe this, but I believe kwik was arrested!"

    "Its an AK pistol, its a novelty!" (Like a pez dispenser right? It has no defense value )

    The same old emotional responses on "woulda coulda shoulda" keep eeking and emenating from your camp, and here we are a year later, and kwik is still polite, and respectful to all of you despite your assaults. Did I mention he has not broken any laws and continues to be safe in everything he does?

    WOW!

    NO DEAD BABIES OR MASS SHOOTINGS!

    Half of you closet hoplophobes claimed this was inevitable a year ago. In fact, a certain individual from the "Anti-Kwik" camp claimed flat out that kwik (and I by proxy) were the next "Fort Hood shooters", or "David Koresh".

    I am laughing so hard at you guys right now, because frankly, you look like idiots.

    Have a great weekend!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  25. #25
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    This has become another kwikrnu thread, unfortunately, but slow, your post leads me to ask some questions.
    Quote Originally Posted by slowfiveoh View Post
    ...He was never arrested.

    He was charged with a crime, and the charge was dropped due to a severe lack of evidence on the prosecutions behalf. One does not have to be arrested to be subpoenad.
    New information...

    "He was charged with a crime", what crime was that?

    "A severe lack of evidence on the prosecutions behalf", what prosecutor handled that case?

    Who "subpoenad" Leonard?

    Look forward to this new information...
    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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