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Thread: First LEO Encounter.

  1. #1
    Regular Member sFe's Avatar
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    First LEO Encounter.

    I have a NC CHP and was driving home from the inlaws in North Myrtle Beach when I was pulled over in Nichols by a Sheriff's Deputy. To the best I could understand he said I was tailgating my wife (who was behind me?) and that led him to believe i was speeding. I immediately told him I had a handgun and permit and he asked me where it was and proceeded to unload it. He then misinformed me that it must be unchambered and in the glove box. I asked him even with a conceal permit and he said yes. He was being very nice and I couldn't remember the exact statue but I knew you could carry in the glove box loaded even without a permit, let alone anywhere else concealed with one , so I didn't push the issue. The stop lasted all of five minutes. I believe the reason he stopped me was either fishing or looking for someone. He looked at my license but didn't call it in.

    Now looking at the statue I think my gun may have not been concealed enough but that doesn't make him any less knowing of the law. I keep it in a holster that's strapped under the steering column, with me in the vehicle I think it would be very hard to see from the outside.

    (b) concealed on or about his person, and he has a valid concealed weapons permit pursuant to the provisions of Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23;


    All in all it was a fast and professional encounter.
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan

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    Glad to hear things ended pleasantly.

    May I suggest:

    1. Letter to sheriff straightening them out on the law.

    2. Formal complaint about the pretext stop. You don't say whether he gave you a warning for following too close, or whether there were any cars in front of you for you to follow too closely, or whether he ever mentioned it again after the initial comment. If the evidence adds up to a false seizure, I recommend a formal complaint.

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    SECTION 23-31-210. Definitions. (6)"Concealable weapon" means a firearm having a length of less than twelve inches measured along its greatest dimension that must be carried in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing except when needed for self-defense, defense of others, and the protection of real or personal property.

    SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.
    (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is:
    (a) secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle;
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 07-26-2010 at 05:46 PM.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    The cop is full of crap. With a CCW you can have it loaded on your person or anywhere else in your car out of common view. Why have a CCW if you can't have it loaded? He may have been courteous and professional, but he is still a dunce.

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    SC Law

    Sorry, the LEO was incorrect but so is the guy from Colorado. In South Carolina a loaded handgun may be carried in any closed compartment of your vehicle (not locked but closed) or, with a Concealed Weapons Permit, concealed on your person. This is normally a holster on your person and concealed under an article of clothing or in your pocket. With a permit it may also be concealed in a briefcase or a purse. It may not be in a holster attached to the vehicle or in an open compartment like a map pocket in the door, nor may it ever be carried under the seat. It was not unusual for an LEO to not be up on the law in the late 90's but now after 16 years, it's pretty rare. Nichols is a very small town. Also, never a good idea to try to educate them, just say OK and thanks, and move on.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throttleup View Post
    Sorry, the LEO was incorrect but so is the guy from Colorado. In South Carolina a loaded handgun may be carried in any closed compartment of your vehicle (not locked but closed) or, with a Concealed Weapons Permit, concealed on your person. This is normally a holster on your person and concealed under an article of clothing or in your pocket. With a permit it may also be concealed in a briefcase or a purse. It may not be in a holster attached to the vehicle or in an open compartment like a map pocket in the door, nor may it ever be carried under the seat. It was not unusual for an LEO to not be up on the law in the late 90's but now after 16 years, it's pretty rare. Nichols is a very small town. Also, never a good idea to try to educate them, just say OK and thanks, and move on.
    There is a listing of places in the car where you can stash it, but not of places where it would be unlawful. Do you have a citation where case law has settled under the seat, for example, is unlawful failing statutory mention? A holster or holding device in the console or glovebox would be legal, one assumes, and better than just tossing it in there. A principle of common law is "where not prohibited, permitted." And an affirmative defense is to ask where the prohibition is specifically notated. I don't live in SC so not familiar with interpretive case laws on CC, but from what I read in the statute I see no specific prohibition for under seat stowing.

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    The carry of a gun is generally illegal in South Carolina but there are specific exceptions. You must read all of the state's gun related statutes. I am an expert.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    The carry of a gun is generally illegal in South Carolina but there are specific exceptions. You must read all of the state's gun related statutes. I am an expert.
    Do you mean "generally 'legal'"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Do you mean "generally 'legal'"?
    No, I meant what I wrote! Read the Zogdamn statutes. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c023.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by SECTION 16-23-20
    SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

    It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law: [ ... ]
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman
    The carry of a gun is generally illegal in South Carolina but there are specific exceptions. You must read all of the state's gun related statutes.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 08-05-2010 at 06:08 PM.

  10. #10
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    i saw the quote there doug, and had to stop, thought maybe i saw south carolina was part of chicago now (?)

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    If it was easy then everyone would do it, read, write, carry a gun, teach gun carry, ... think

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    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throttleup View Post
    Sorry, the LEO was incorrect but so is the guy from Colorado. In South Carolina a loaded handgun may be carried in any closed compartment of your vehicle (not locked but closed) or, with a Concealed Weapons Permit, concealed on your person. This is normally a holster on your person and concealed under an article of clothing or in your pocket. With a permit it may also be concealed in a briefcase or a purse. It may not be in a holster attached to the vehicle or in an open compartment like a map pocket in the door, nor may it ever be carried under the seat. It was not unusual for an LEO to not be up on the law in the late 90's but now after 16 years, it's pretty rare. Nichols is a very small town. Also, never a good idea to try to educate them, just say OK and thanks, and move on.
    Isn't it ironic that the person who joined the forum just to correct someone else (who is in fact wrong) provided incorrect information himself. Surprise!

    The law is pretty clear on where you may lawfully carry in your vehicle;

    16-23-20 - It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
    (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is:
    (a) secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance; or (b) concealed on or about his person, and he has a valid concealed weapons permit pursuant to the provisions of Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23;

    The law says nothing about "any closed compartment of your vehicle". It very specifically states "secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle".

    Words mean things, and the two quotes above are not the same. Please don't confuse the issue with your opinion or what your brother-in-law may have told you.


    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c023.htm

    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.htm


    Have a nice day.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

  13. #13
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp-hobo View Post
    Isn't it ironic that the person who joined the forum just to correct someone else (who is in fact wrong) provided incorrect information himself. Surprise!

    The law is pretty clear on where you may lawfully carry in your vehicle;

    16-23-20 - It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
    (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is:
    (a) secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance; or (b) concealed on or about his person, and he has a valid concealed weapons permit pursuant to the provisions of Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23;

    The law says nothing about "any closed compartment of your vehicle". It very specifically states "secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle".

    Words mean things, and the two quotes above are not the same. Please don't confuse the issue with your opinion or what your brother-in-law may have told you.


    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c023.htm

    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.htm


    Have a nice day.

    COLUMBIA, S.C. --
    South Carolina drivers would be allowed to carry handguns underneath their car seats under a bill advanced by a state House subcommittee Wednesday. Now, drivers are allowed to carry a guns in their cars if the gun is "secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle," according to state law.

    Rep. Bakari Sellers, D-Denmark, the main sponsor of the bill, says, "It's a bill, for me, that's about gun owners' rights and individual freedoms and responsibility. I'm a concealed weapons permit holder. I would hope that I would carry responsibly, just as the next CWP holder and I think that, within your own car, individual gun owners should have that freedom to have their weapon under their seat."

    I had read this article (April of this year) and was unsure of the status of the bill, which passed the subcommittee with no opposition. If it hasn't passed yet, I jumped the gun, no pun intended, but will in fact be correct in my post shortly, one could assume. SC has strange wording in these statutes, but the common law principal of "not prohibited, then permitted" still applies.

    Update: passed 104-0 in State House. Senate passage assured.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 08-09-2010 at 02:54 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    Welcome to April 14th, 2010.

    How does posting three month old information that I already knew about (three months ago) negate the fact that the info in your initial post was incorrect? Think carefully before answering.

    Being allowed to carry under the seat is not the same as "anywhere else in your car out of common view". Once again you're incorrect. I would hope you're more informed on Colorado law than SC law. Perhaps you shoud stop telling us what you think our (admittedly confusing) laws are.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    http://scfirearms.org/Legislative/H3298.html

    http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess118_...bills/3298.htm

    June 3, 2010: The 2nd regular session of the 118th SC General Assembly ends.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp-hobo View Post
    Welcome to April 14th, 2010.

    How does posting three month old information that I already knew about (three months ago) negate the fact that the info in your initial post was incorrect? Think carefully before answering.

    Being allowed to carry under the seat is not the same as "anywhere else in your car out of common view". Once again you're incorrect. I would hope you're more informed on Colorado law than SC law. Perhaps you shoud stop telling us what you think our (admittedly confusing) laws are.
    Here's what I "carefully" think: the SC statutes are unusual in their wording of what is permitted. The vast majority of the 'free' states follow the common law I quoted: not expressly prohibited means permitted.. As I specifically mentioned "under the seat," that was the primary point of issue. The issue is settled and was once I read the statute for myself. Maybe that's too complicated for you to understand. I was mistaken in that the law may or may not have passed by now through the Senate, but not in that it is highly likely that it will. What you knew or when you knew it is irrelevant to the discussion and a matter of complete indifference to me. You seem to have some compulsion to show how versed you are by constantly making a discussion a vendetta. As I live in CO, I readily admit a resident of SC may have greater knowledge of their own state's statutes than I--prior to my researching them. But I don't personally attack in a discussion as you apparently feel the need to. The under seat issue is resolved. If you want to play "who's more correct on the law with me" I suggest you'd better have a JD. Otherwise, your future opinions are meaningless and you can get your compensatory ego boost elsewhere.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 08-10-2010 at 02:40 PM.

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    *plonk*

    *plonk*

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    Questions

    I am a NC resident with a CC and I OC frequently. I am looking at a possible job opportunity in SC. I understand my OC will go bye bye, but reading the above threads as well as the statues I want to run a few questions by the experienced SC CC holders.

    So even if I have a CC (NC or SC), MY QUESTION 1 I will have to have it "secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle" when I am driving? MY QUESTION 2 So when I get out of the car, I can than conceal carry (within the Law)?

    Would I run the risk of MWAG observation as I secure it to my person concealed? It's tough inside my car (370Z) to place it comfortably (Glock23 IWB). I'd look like I was trying to perform some lude act (LOL).
    Last edited by Northerner; 10-13-2010 at 12:02 PM.

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    Regular Member sFe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northerner View Post
    I am a NC resident with a CC and I OC frequently. I am looking at a possible job opportunity in SC. I understand my OC will go bye bye, but reading the above threads as well as the statues I want to run a few questions by the experienced SC CC holders.

    So even if I have a CC (NC or SC), MY QUESTION 1 I will have to have it "secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle" when I am driving? MY QUESTION 2 So when I get out of the car, I can than conceal carry (within the Law)?

    Would I run the risk of MWAG observation as I secure it to my person concealed? It's tough inside my car (370Z) to place it comfortably (Glock23 IWB). I'd look like I was trying to perform some lude act (LOL).
    It can be on your person as well with chp.
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    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sFe View Post
    It can be on your person as well with chp.
    Thanks for clearing that up.

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