A comparison of police in Beijing and California

I just got back from a vacation in Beijing, China. I didn't know much about China before, and I feel like I was constantly re-evaluating what I thought I would see there. One thing that really stood out though was the police in Beijing. They didn't carry guns (I didn't see a gun the entire time I was there), I didn't see them pull over anybody despite rampant bending of traffic laws, I didn't see anybody being detained, I didn't see anybody's ID being checked, I didn't see anything that open carriers regularly worry about when it comes to encounters with California police officers.

I did see a lady push past the clutches of a police officer who was telling her that she couldn't come through an entrance in Tiananmen Square. She wasn't arrested for assault on a police officer, she wasn't cited for resisting arrest, she wasn't even chased after and given a stern talking to. The police officer just let her go. It wasn't that big of a deal, so why make it a big deal? I doubt that would ever happen in California. Even disobeying a police officer will give you special attention for "having a bad attitude." Police in Beijing just seemed like they were there for the public good. Not to ruin somebody's day, not to show people who is boss, not to trample Chinese national's rights which aren't acknowledged to exist by their government (they're inalienable after all).

After seeing all of this, the question that obviously came to mind is, are police officers in California worse than in China? It really pains me to say this, but yeah, they are.

The thing that really stands out about America from other countries is the Bill of Rights. In California our rights are regularly ignored. The fourth amendment, the fifth, the first, the second. We are routinely denied our inalienable rights, we are harassed for not breaking the law, we are coerced to supply information to agents of the state which have no reason to ask for it.

Even the customs officials in China were more friendly. There they stamped my passport and that was it. I walked through the "nothing to declare" line and into China. Here I was asked questions that I had already answered on my customs form. Then I was asked why I didn't have any suitcases, how long was I in China, what was in my messenger bag. Seriously America? China is less of a police state than us?

Having lived my entire life in California, I'm not sure whether it's just "authority figures" in California who are total douches, or if it has spread outside of our borders. I think the police elsewhere are generally better, who knows about the Customs guys. Makes me really think our country is totally screwed.

Wow. What an eye opener. Thanks for the report, Bigtoe.

Now, try that trip again while handing out flyers criticizing President Jintao.

But, what a great comparison. "Our cops are worse than communist Chinese cops!"

Dang it. Now we can't call bad cops "communists." But, we can still call 'em Nazis! (I knew there was a bright side here somewhere.)

I totally agree!

I made similar observations in China about the "freedoms" we think we have.

Hear my rant about China in the first 5 minutes of this episode http://www.opencarryradio.com/?p=712

I think we (Californians first then the U.S.) are trailing the UK in our gun laws.

My father lives in China and I visit often. I can assure all of you that if you think cops in CA are worse than China then you are sadly mistaken.

America is the most just country in the world and should NEVER be compared with China......EVER.

However, my father and I have both made the same observation before that it seems there is far less interaction between the public and the police in China as compared to America. I believe there are many reasons for that and it might lead one to conclude that there are more freedoms and/or the police are more tolerant in China. Not so !!!

While it is true that in America the police will stop, cite and arrest for many things that Chinese police will not, one should consider all aspects of American freedoms and liberties and justice system.

I dont really feel like typing pages and pages of my experiences there, but I am confident that few on this board would trade American police for Chinese law and order.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing.

Ca Patriot said:

My father lives in China and I visit often. I can assure all of you that if you think cops in CA are worse than China then you are sadly mistaken.

America is the most just country in the world and should NEVER be compared with China......EVER.

However, my father and I have both made the same observation before that it seems there is far less interaction between the public and the police in China as compared to America. I believe there are many reasons for that and it might lead one to conclude that there are more freedoms and/or the police are more tolerant in China. Not so !!!

While it is true that in America the police will stop, cite and arrest for many things that Chinese police will not, one should consider all aspects of American freedoms and liberties and justice system.

I dont really feel like typing pages and pages of my experiences there, but I am confident that few on this board would trade American police for Chinese law and order.

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From what I have heard about China, it has been a totalitarian dictatorship (communist) country for quite some time. They are starting to ease up a bit and the people(s) there are starting to enjoy a little freedom. They have been beaten down for so long, For them it is liberty. People here have gotten so accustomed to freedom (read that as "spoiled" ) they take it for granted. Some take it to the extremes. You said you didn't see one gun over there. Hmmmm. I bet if the police needed to bring them out, YOU as a tourist would never see it. Remember Tieneman Square. They blacked the whole thing out, and even denied it ever happened. I doubt you'd really want to live there. While in the Marine Corps, I have seen several countries myself, and I couldn't wait to get back to the states.

Ca Patriot said:

While it is true that in America the police will stop, cite and arrest for many things that Chinese police will not, one should consider all aspects of American freedoms and liberties and justice system.

I dont really feel like typing pages and pages of my experiences there, but I am confident that few on this board would trade American police for Chinese law and order.

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I wasn't talking about the other aspects, but if you want me to quickly speak on that subject I can. I assert that the Bill of Rights is the only thing keeping America from being a country with more tyranny than China.

On the flight home I read in a newspaper that the Chinese legal system was considering lowering the number of capital crimes down from around 70. One of the crimes that is punishable by death is bribing an official with over $15k. Our eighth amendment prevents such things.

I wasn't able to access youtube, or blogs, or see any results for "Tiananmen Square" during a google image search. Our first amendment prevents such things.

During a taxi ride home one late night, a police officer was going randomly to driver's windows and having them blow into something for a half second. I surmised that it was a DUI checkpoint of sorts (except it was being done at a regular stop light). Our fourth amendment prevents such things.

So do Chinese nationals have a better deal? No. I wouldn't trade the BoR for anything really. But are the police that I saw less Nazi-ish than police I have seen in California? Absolutely.

It should also be noted that while China is communist, I saw more free market forces in action there than I have ever seen here. I didn't see any business licenses anywhere, street vendors selling food were everywhere, there were doormen at office buildings and ushers at the movies (probably due to the low minimum wage) and people unofficially offering tours at many tourist attractions. People were selling water and popsicles and umbrellas inside of tourist attractions. Tell me how long you can sell anything inside the gates for any place in the U.S. before you are kicked out (this isn't a great comparison since I think every place I visited was owned by the state since they were historical locations, but I still think you'd be prevented from selling stuff in). Unofficial taxis were allowed to offer rides to people without harassment and people could modify their buildings without worrying about codes to follow.

If you want to sell a hot dog in the U.S., you need a business license, then you need to be approved by the health department, then you need to follow health regulations in your preparation and serving of the hot dog, then you need to be prepared for random health inspections. If you want to sell a hot dog in China you just do it. Obviously there are benefits knowing that the restaurant you're eating at isn't totally filthy, but the rules currently in place are also against free market ideals.

On the free market side, yes China is absolutely more free than America. Its sad really when a communist country is more economically free than America. China is doing everything they can to spur growth and America is doing everything they can to shackle business and capitolism. Ironic isnt it ?

btw - for what its worth, my father is a white American who has lived in China now for 15 years. Its his opinion that China is more free than America. Recently he asked me, "how many people do you know in America that have been arrested?" I thought about it for a minute and said "well, I have about 15 friends that have been arrested". He said "well, I dont know any people here in China who have been arrested".

This reminds me of the article I read not long ago about a farmer that shot at Chinese police for trying to enforce an eminent domain decision. The police backed off and the government said they would revisit the ED policy so that they could be more reasonable in the future.

Can you think of anywhere in the US where a citizen who did that would not be hunted like a varmint, and have his property forfeited to the state?

By the way, the US isn't capitalist. It is fascist, and has been for decades. So go back and think of all the horrible things various civil leaders said about fascism and understand you are living in what our fathers and grandfathers were warned about.

Fascist....oh brother. not even worth commenting on

inbox485 said:

This reminds me of the article I read not long ago about a farmer that shot at Chinese police for trying to enforce an eminent domain decision. The police backed off and the government said they would revisit the ED policy so that they could be more reasonable in the future.

Can you think of anywhere in the US where a citizen who did that would not be hunted like a varmint, and have his property forfeited to the state?

By the way, the US isn't capitalist. It is fascist, and has been for decades. So go back and think of all the horrible things various civil leaders said about fascism and understand you are living in what our fathers and grandfathers were warned about.

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Fascist. Sounds like a lefty.LOL

Citizen said:

Now, try that trip again while handing out flyers criticizing President Jintao.

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That's like saying "President Barack Hussein" or "President George Walker".

"Jin Tao" are his first and middle name.

His PROPER title is "President Hu".

America has become a nation of licensure. Our free market system is no longer free and has not been for some time. Business licenses on the surface seem like little irritants at just another $35 annual tax. And they are, but they are also a manner in which a local city council can prevent a business from operating. How about zoning ordinances. If you own land why can't you do with it what you want? These are two very simple examples of LOCAL government control over your life, your business and your unalienable rights to produce work from your labors and reap the rewards. There are many other areas which impact your life in the name of licensure whether its driving a car or carrying a gun. Our government is completely out of control at all levels, federal, state and local. We are not free and have not been for quite some time.

Tough talk, they were mighty nice to me in Russia and Egypt, but I wasn't tooling about with a gun.

Actually I suppose in Egypt I was...

But the point stands! Let me know how sweet they are when your mucking about with a 6er on your hip.

Police everywhere are heavy in the badge and light in the brains.

coolusername2007 said:

America has become a nation of licensure. Our free market system is no longer free and has not been for some time. Business licenses on the surface seem like little irritants at just another $35 annual tax. And they are, but they are also a manner in which a local city council can prevent a business from operating. How about zoning ordinances. If you own land why can't you do with it what you want? These are two very simple examples of LOCAL government control over your life, your business and your unalienable rights to produce work from your labors and reap the rewards. There are many other areas which impact your life in the name of licensure whether its driving a car or carrying a gun. Our government is completely out of control at all levels, federal, state and local. We are not free and have not been for quite some time.

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Yeah its about making money for the state, fed, & locals.
Money truly is the root of all evil.
Driving ticket, parking tickets, licensure laws ECT !
The LEO's are not tolded of "who" they are talking their "Oath To", its to the people to uphold their Constitution and
Bill of Rights.
Unfortuanly most LEO's become politico in their thinking and motivated in that way. ( Politically Correct).
Any and all "Laws" are forced upon the people at the whim of the administration.
Our fight has just stated !
The best way to combat this is vote for a Sheriff, like Richard Mack who will keep his oath to protect our rights.
The local Sheriff has more power then the President of the USA. But most don't know that.
Its sad our country has turned just like Germany in 1939.

Robin47