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Washburn County Self Defense shooting

paul@paul-fisher.com

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May 24, 2009
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4,049
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Chandler, AZ
This is why we need a Castle Doctrine or at least a better defined self-defense law.

It seems that in cases of self-defense that they will wait for the jury to determine that.
 
B

bhancock

Guest
1 Million Dollar Bond-No charges

This is why we need a Castle Doctrine or at least a better defined self-defense law.

It seems that in cases of self-defense that they will wait for the jury to determine that.

Not every self defense shooting needs a jury to determine the facts. If the investigation reveals clear evidence and especially if the officers had a couple reliable witnesses, not just the one left standing, self defense could be determined and no arrest or charges referred. Not being on the scene of this one or having any knowledge about the parties it is impossible to determine by the press release.

It would be nice if you could expect a fair evaluation by LEO no matter where you are. we have seen some extreme differences in how Agencies differ in their standard operating procedures.

Link to latest News article: http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/99435664.html
 
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J.Gleason

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May 1, 2009
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Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
Not every self defense shooting needs a jury to determine the facts. If the investigation reveals clear evidence and especially if the officers had a couple reliable witnesses, not just the one left standing, self defense could be determined and no arrest or charges referred. Not being on the scene of this one or having any knowledge about the parties it is impossible to determine by the press release.

It would be nice if you could expect a fair evaluation by LEO no matter where you are. we have seen some extreme differences in how Agencies differ in their standard operating procedures.

Link to latest News article: http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/99435664.html

Gee, another Rights violation. Unreasonable Bail. Even Jesus Gonzalez had a bond amount much lower. It will be interesting to see where this goes.
 

Sara Smith

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Jul 28, 2010
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wi
Just because the accused claims self defense doesn't always mean it was. What if the gun shot wounds are in the back-that doesn't look like self defense. Also maybe the accused wants to be in jail for fear of retaliation from the victims friends and family? There is far too little reported to judge whether Rights have been violated.
 

J.Gleason

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May 1, 2009
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Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
$1,000,000.00 Bail is unreasonable when compared to bail in comparable cases here in Wisconsin. I don't believe that Steven Avery even had a bail that high.

An 8th Amendment Right

Or do we only stand up for some rights?
 
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MKEgal

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Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
I hate how they refer to the person defending himself as the "suspect" and the attacker as the "victim". If you're going to have a bias, how about being biased in favor of the law... you know, innocent until proven guilty?

It will be interesting to find out just how drunk he was, if at all - maybe he had alcohol on his breath, or maybe he'd had a beer or two and that, coupled with the trauma of being assaulted & having to shoot to save his life, made him seem more drunk.

It's a bit odd that he left the house, but I could see going out on the front lawn to wait for cops. Again, people do odd things after trauma.
 

Shell_Lake1

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Aug 3, 2010
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Shell Lake, WI
In my opinion it was probably self defense

I know the deceased and his family. They are very notorious for fighting. I have lived in S.L. on and off all my life, and if you were anywhere that the Elliott boys were and there was alcohol involved there was/ is going to be trouble. in short, these boys don't leave a bar without fighting. mike elliot recently was arrested for beating a complete stranger so badly he was hospitalized... (i personally know this person too) he was walking home from the bar alone when he was jumped by mike and his brother joe... he was kicked and stomped by steel toed work boots. even one of their ex-wives beaten more than once until she got away from the family. i could go on and on because there is A LOT more to this. people are afraid of these boys and the fact that they are family friends with our local judge their charges are almost always reduced, dismissed, or simply never filed. take a look at this link..... and see for yourself.

http://wcca.wicourts.gov/pager.do;j...C221&offset=0&sortColumn=0&sortDirection=DESC
 
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J.Gleason

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Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
I know the deceased and his family. They are very notorious for fighting. I have lived in S.L. on and off all my life, and if you were anywhere that the Elliott boys were and there was alcohol involved there was/ is going to be trouble. in short, these boys don't leave a bar without fighting. mike elliot recently was arrested for beating a complete stranger so badly he was hospitalized... (i personally know this person too) he was walking home from the bar alone when he was jumped by mike and his brother joe... he was kicked and stomped by steel toed work boots. even one of their ex-wives beaten more than once until she got away from the family. i could go on and on because there is A LOT more to this. people are afraid of these boys and the fact that they are family friends with our local judge their charges are almost always reduced, dismissed, or simply never filed. take a look at this link..... and see for yourself.

http://wcca.wicourts.gov/pager.do;j...C221&offset=0&sortColumn=0&sortDirection=DESC

Thank you for coming forward and shedding some light on the situation.
 

Shell_Lake1

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Aug 3, 2010
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Shell Lake, WI
Shell Lake is a very clicky town and the Elliotts are very well known. That Jess guy is not very well known, everyone I know has never heard of him. So that is why they are charging him with 1st. deg. (in my opinion) The police didn't say a word about his black eyes and split lip which you can see in his mug shot photo. If someone is getting beat on it is human instinct to try to protect yourself and that is what he was doing. I also believe that if he did get out of jail that his life would be very much in danger. But alot of people think he got what he had coming,which is not real nice to say but Mike has beat alot of people around here. It was bound to happen sooner or later. It is sad that a person gets charged with 1st degree murder for protecting himself in his own home. And about him being in the woods... the woods are only out his front door. I wouldn't want to stay in the house with a dead guy there either. No one can know how they are going to react in that kind of situation. Lets hope he gets a fair trial. If certain people knew I was writting this I would probably be threatened too. They both lost, that is the sad thing.
 

J.Gleason

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Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
It sounded to me from the beginning that this guy was being railroaded. I knew there had to be some cover up or something going on that wasn't being made known by the media. Hell the local media is probably friends with the Elliots too.
 

Shell_Lake1

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Aug 3, 2010
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Shell Lake, WI
It sounded to me from the beginning that this guy was being railroaded. I knew there had to be some cover up or something going on that wasn't being made known by the media. Hell the local media is probably friends with the Elliots too.

I don't know about the local media but they are very hush hush about the whole thing. I will keep you all updated as soon as I hear anything.
 

iceman71

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
68
Location
Cudahy, Wisconsin, USA
Sounds like they should request a change of venue. And I thought they could only hold you for 48-72 hours before they had to charge you. But as others have stated it may be for his safety.
 

davegran

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May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
Some concealed weapons are apparently allowed in Wisconsin

....mike elliot recently was arrested for beating a complete stranger so badly he was hospitalized... (i personally know this person too) he was walking home from the bar alone when he was jumped by mike and his brother joe... he was kicked and stomped by steel toed work boots.....http://wcca.wicourts.gov/pager.do;j...C221&offset=0&sortColumn=0&sortDirection=DESC

A very good friend (In his 60's like me.) was attacked and stomped by a biker with steel-toed boots. He died of a brain hemorrhage. These boots are concealed weapons as far as I'm concerned.
 

justiceformike

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Aug 13, 2010
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nyb
Shell Lake is a very clicky town and the Elliotts are very well known. That Jess guy is not very well known, everyone I know has never heard of him. So that is why they are charging him with 1st. deg. (in my opinion) The police didn't say a word about his black eyes and split lip which you can see in his mug shot photo. If someone is getting beat on it is human instinct to try to protect yourself and that is what he was doing. I also believe that if he did get out of jail that his life would be very much in danger. But alot of people think he got what he had coming,which is not real nice to say but Mike has beat alot of people around here. It was bound to happen sooner or later. It is sad that a person gets charged with 1st degree murder for protecting himself in his own home. And about him being in the woods... the woods are only out his front door. I wouldn't want to stay in the house with a dead guy there either. No one can know how they are going to react in that kind of situation. Lets hope he gets a fair trial. If certain people knew I was writting this I would probably be threatened too. They both lost, that is the sad thing.

You are out of line! I think you should refrain from talking badly about someone that isn't even alive anymore to defend himself against your extremely judgemental and one-sided comments! About the "self defense" case, you are making judgements without knowing what happened. Just because someone claims self defense doesn't mean they were truely acting in self defense. A LOT of people use self defense as a cover up! Shooting someone 6 times in the back (2 of those while the person is lying on their face) does not appear to be self defense to me! If this truely was a self defense case (and Mike was as much as a fighter as you bad mouthed him out to be) don't you think that at least one of those shots should have been in his chest...not his back/sholder/thigh/ankle? Also, the comment you made about Jess having a black eye...according to Jess' statement he said that Mike didn't give him the black eye. Jess said the 3rd person that was with them that night punched him twice. However, Jess can't recall or identify the 3rd person! If the "other guy" was the one beating on Jess, why didn't Jess shoot that guy instead of Mike, who what it sounds like, was walking away from Jess. Mike called Jess his "friend." The family knew Jess...had hung out with Jess. What Jess did was wrong. This was not self defense.

To the other people that were commenting about "being guilty until proven innocent" so to speak, all the evidence pointed to the fact that this was more than the self defense claim Jess was stating. That is why he was charged and held since day one. Please people, start thinking about things a little more. Sometimes the system knows what they are doing.

http://www.chronotype.com/main.asp?SectionID=32&SubSectionID=113&ArticleID=20214&TM=2689.715
 
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graybuffalo

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
2
Location
Ramsey, MN
I'd agree. Just because lets say you were at home drinking and watching a sports game, you shouldn't have to give up your right to self defense. But, since he was out in the woods wondering around, his self-defense claim won't be very credible. When I first read the story, I thought the bad guy was out in the woods, like he'd been shot and ran then died. So ya, I find it very weird he was the one in the woods.

I don't know why you would find it weird that someone walked outside of the house with a dead body lying on the kitchen floor. He did call the police - he was not hiding.
 

graybuffalo

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Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
2
Location
Ramsey, MN
You are out of line! I think you should refrain from talking badly about someone that isn't even alive anymore to defend himself against your extremely judgemental and one-sided comments! About the "self defense" case, you are making judgements without knowing what happened. Just because someone claims self defense doesn't mean they were truely acting in self defense. A LOT of people use self defense as a cover up! Shooting someone 6 times in the back (2 of those while the person is lying on their face) does not appear to be self defense to me! If this truely was a self defense case (and Mike was as much as a fighter as you bad mouthed him out to be) don't you think that at least one of those shots should have been in his chest...not his back/sholder/thigh/ankle? Also, the comment you made about Jess having a black eye...according to Jess' statement he said that Mike didn't give him the black eye. Jess said the 3rd person that was with them that night punched him twice. However, Jess can't recall or identify the 3rd person! If the "other guy" was the one beating on Jess, why didn't Jess shoot that guy instead of Mike, who what it sounds like, was walking away from Jess. Mike called Jess his "friend." The family knew Jess...had hung out with Jess. What Jess did was wrong. This was not self defense.

To the other people that were commenting about "being guilty until proven innocent" so to speak, all the evidence pointed to the fact that this was more than the self defense claim Jess was stating. That is why he was charged and held since day one. Please people, start thinking about things a little more. Sometimes the system knows what they are doing.

http://www.chronotype.com/main.asp?SectionID=32&SubSectionID=113&ArticleID=20214&TM=2689.715

Let's not be drawing conclusions before all the facts are in... I have know Jess Carsello for 14 years - both professionally (I worked for him), and also as a good friend. Jess and his wife and my wife and I traveled to Africa together on a photo safari - as well as to locations such as Malaysia. Jess has always been caring and compassionate. Jess has NEVER shown a violent side sober or otherwise. He was always the fun-loving center of attention. He would do anything for a friend. I have to believe based upon my 14 year tenure of friendship that truly "things started getting really weird" to quote Jess. The history of the victim's shady past are confirming the latter. I understand that the victim was a bar room brawler and even jumped a total stranger, beat him so bad he had to be hospitalized. This is in sharp contrast to the character of Jess Carsello, a college graduate, successful in Medical Sales - having risen to positions of Vice President with several companies. One does not rise to the level of success in Corporate America by beating on people in bars. Jess has shown clarity and concise decision making capabilities which leads me to draw no other conclusion than he had to be terrified of losing his life. Did anyone ever stop to think that the victim could have told Jess that he was going to kill him (as Jess stated) and that he was going home to get his gun? Let's not forget, this happened in Jess' home. You don't just pick up a gun and shoot a guest in your home unless you are in fear of losing your life.
 
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