Utah CCW Class - August 7 - McHenry, IL $70

Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010
Time: 0930-1400ish
Location: Hampton Inn, 1555 S Route 31, McHenry, IL 60050
Cost: $70

Register on our website: http://www.anywhereccw.com

Class includes:
• The Class
• Passport Photos
• Fingerprinting
• Mail everything required to Utah's Bureau of Criminal Identification for processing

If you're interested or have questions, contact me: mike@anywhereccw.com

If you have any questions or problems, please let me know!

-Mike
815-534-GUNS (4867)
mike@anywhereccw.com
http://www.anywhereccw.com

For that price, I'd go if it was closer to me. The drive and gas would make up for the lower cost of the class. If you guys do finger prints too, that's nice. For my FL permit I had to go sit at the sheriff's office to get that done.

Logan,

If you can get 10 others interested, I'll come up to you by Onalaska and give the class, and you'd be free!

Let me know if you're interested!

Mike

Can't figure out how this thread got a sticky yet the thread that was started by someone selling a handgun did not.
Seems to me that the sale of a handgun would have more to do with "OPEN CARRY" then a ccw class.
Especially a ccw class in Illinois.
Maybe they should move this sticky to the Illinois Forum.

J.Gleason said:

Can't figure out how this thread got a sticky yet the thread that was started by someone selling a handgun did not.
Seems to me that the sale of a handgun would have more to do with "OPEN CARRY" then a ccw class.
Especially a ccw class in Illinois.
Maybe they should move this sticky to the Illinois Forum.

Click to expand...

J. Gleason:

I'm not sure how it got stickied, one of the admins/moderators had to have done that, and I appreciate them doing it! From John the administrator here, "...it is only firearms, firearm parts, and ammo that cannot be offered for sale here." I understand this is an open carry forum, but many people in Wisconsin OC only because CC isn't available to them. I teach this class because I want people to understand that they can carry concealed when they travel out of state, legally! Many people, myself included until recently, were unaware of the Utah permit allowing you to carry in many states. I had several incidents last year on my way to North Carolina that made me go "wow, I wish I had my gun on me now!" and that's when I really started getting involved in promoting OC/CC. I OC whenever I goto WI, but only because CC isn't legal.

In reply to your being posted in the Illinois forum, it's also there. The reason it's posted in both is because my class is offered so close to the Wisconsin border, that I've had more than a few Wisconsin residents attend.

I Would Attend If I Didn't Already Have A Utah Permit

The price for this class is a good one. I paid more than double that for my class here in Wisconsin. True about the Utah permit, it is good in many states....somewhere around 35 or 36 IIRC. New Mexico dropped the reciprocity with Utah not long ago but last year Missouri and Nebraska both added Utah to their lists for reciprocity. I travel quite a bit out of Wisconsin and the "Land of No Freedom Illinois" and carry concealed where legal with my Utah permit.

JG, I agree.

The problem is, Wisconsin does not recognize ccw permits and there are many states that will only allow you to carry if your state has reciprocity with the state you are traveling in. Wisconsin has no reciprocity. Some states like Michigan only allow you to carry if you are legally allowed to carry in your home state.

The fact is unless you plan on traveling all over the states and only to the states with reciprocity with the Utah permit then it is pointless to get the permit.
I would love to see all these people who are flocking to ccw classes just so they can get that permit in their hand, take that money and contribute it to a legal fund to help members here who are willing to challenge the laws right here in Wisconsin and other states for that matter. Since the legislators keep stalling on the legislation we might as well fight this in the courts and actually get something done. I think that is the whole difference between talking the talk and walking the walk.
I have ccw for a long time now and I don't have a permit. It is my legal right to carry a firearm and any restrictions on that are an infringement which I will be willing to fight in court. Sure it will be costly and sure I will probably need financial assistance when the time comes. But if I win then so do all of you and that makes it all worth while.
If it goes all the way to the state supreme court and the decision is that ccw restrictions are unconstitutional then guess what, we won't need no damn permits!
Instead of all of this attention being given to ccw classes and permits, how about we focus on what we really need here in Wisconsin.....CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY!

Clearing The Air - and why CCW is related to Open Carry

Hi,

To clear the air, only six (6) States only honor residential CCW permits. These are Maine, South Carolina, New Hampshire, Florida, Michigan, and Colorado. Getting a non-resident FL permit clears FL. Maine will issue a non-residential permit as wil New Hampshire. Michigan and Colorado will not. South Carolina will issue a "resident" permit to any out of State resident who also owns land in SC and pays taxes on it. So, three of the "resident only" States can be handled with non-resident permits. One requires that you buy land in SC - and Michigan and Colorado are not a possibility unless you move out of Wisconsin.

A non-resident Utah CFP is easiest and cheapest to get ($65.50). Then Florida ($117.00) enters the picture. Non-residents pick up Florida and New Mexico versus the Utah permit. But the Utah permit is necessary for Minnesota (important to WI residents).

But the real advantage to an out of State permit for Wisconsin residents is illustrated in this real story. When I still was a Wisconsin resident and had a non-resident Utah permit that allowed me to carry in 31 States at the time (since then NV and NM have dropped recognition of Utah because Utah does not require live shooting), I had occasion to ask Wisconsin Senator Neil Kedzie (R-Elkhorn) why I was denied a Civil Right in my home State of Wisconsin that I was allowed in 31 other States. Senator Kedzie. an avid 2A supporter, was shaken by the question and asked me to appear before his committee when Governor Doyle was no longer part of the Wisconsin Political scene and Concealed Carry came up again. I intend to appear before his committee even though it means a 1500 mile round trip each way. In the mean time - my friends in Wisconsin can really help.

This strategy can work. If you get an out of State permit, you can ask your legislator why you are denied a right that is granted in (enter list of States covered by your permit). If you act quickly before Pennsylvania changes its law, you can get a Pennsylvania Permit from Centre county for $26.00 because WI does not offer a permit. (If WI did offer a permit, PA would issue a PA permit based on the WI permit.)

OK - before the guys who want to rant about 2A rights and Constitutional Carry chime in -

Yes, I support Constitutional Carry (quit flaming me on my private account)

Yes, the "sheeple" in concealed carry States do not give a "Rat's Ass" that it is our right to carry - they want to know that the State has done a background check.

And yes, I do personally agree that we should be allowed to Open Carry anywhere - but the "sheeple" are much more comfortable when they do not see guns. I support concealed carry because 1) - the Sheeple are more comfortable, and 2) not knowing who is carrying makes the Bad Guys fear every law abiding citizen.

Let's "get with the program". Like Blacks in Selma in 1963, the law may have been on their side, but the people were not. Ours is an uphill battle. Being assertive and demanding Constitutional Carry is a good thing, but be prepared if we have to follow those who have gone before us demanding and ultimately getting Civil Rights.

OC is lawful in Michigan on a non-resident CCW license

This thread goes into some detail and cites applicable Michigan statutes.

jpm84092 said:

I had occasion to ask Wisconsin Senator Neil Kedzie (R-Elkhorn) why I was denied a Civil Right in my home State of Wisconsin that I was allowed in 31 other States. Senator Kedzie. an avid 2A supporter, was shaken by the question and asked me to appear before his committee when Governor Doyle was no longer part of the Wisconsin Political scene and Concealed Carry came up again. I intend to appear before his committee even though it means a 1500 mile round trip each way.

Click to expand...

How many more times are you going to tell this story? I get it, you used to live in LaGrange, you've talked to Kedzie (who hasn't)? I live in Sugar Creek and talked to Senator Kedzie and Representative Nass and Sheriff Graves and various Elkhorn Councilmen, and various County commissioners, candidates for Governor, Lt Governor.

Onalaska

If you do decide to have the Utah CC in Onalaska or La Crosse count me in. I do travel to a number of the states it covers so count me in

Doug Huffman said:

JG, I agree.

Click to expand...

Obviously the Moderators don't agree. You can't sell a hand gun on here because they feel that is not related to OCW. But you can sell an opening in a CCW class that isn't related to OCW at all.

Again the mods are just picking and choosing which members they support the most. The funniest part of it all is, if the the Gun Rights groups would just ask the elitists what needs to be done to have constitutional carry throughout the U.S. it would have been done a long time ago. Just ask the elitists they know everything. They have all of the answers.

J.Gleason said:

You can't sell a hand gun on here because they feel that is not related to OCW.

Click to expand...

No, they stated why you can't sell guns, Google ads will close the account if the forum offers guns for sale. Since Google ads pay the bills, firearm ads are banned.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

No, they stated why you can't sell guns, Google ads will close the account if the forum offers guns for sale. Since Google ads pay the bills, firearm ads are banned.

Click to expand...

Imagine that firearms ads are banned on a gun rights site. But it is OK to advertise for CCW classes even though CCW is illegal in Wisconsin. What next? I guess it is all about the money after all.

J.Gleason said:

Imagine that firearms ads are banned on a gun rights site. But it is OK to advertise for CCW classes even though CCW is illegal in Wisconsin. What next? I guess it is all about the money after all.

Click to expand...

Once again, we either play by the rules, or we go somewhere else.

This forum is nationwide. CC being illegal in WI has nothing to do with it. WI residents sometimes actually travel out of state.

If you really want irony, why not say 'but it's OK to advertise for CCW classes held in IL on the WI forum when those are the 2 states in the nation that don't allow CC'.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Once again, we either play by the rules, or we go somewhere else.

This forum is nationwide. CC being illegal in WI has nothing to do with it. WI residents sometimes actually travel out of state.

If you really want irony, why not say 'but it's OK to advertise for CCW classes held in IL on the WI forum when those are the 2 states in the nation that don't allow CC'.

Click to expand...

LOL! That is exactly what I am getting at.

My Response Paul

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

How many more times are you going to tell this story? I get it, you used to live in LaGrange, you've talked to Kedzie (who hasn't)? I live in Sugar Creek and talked to Senator Kedzie and Representative Nass and Sheriff Graves and various Elkhorn Councilmen, and various County commissioners, candidates for Governor, Lt Governor.

Click to expand...

Hello Paul,

I have nothing against you personally, so I am speaking to you as a fellow 2nd Amendment advocate. I will tell this story as long as it takes to get Wisconsin to accept concealed carry. This forum is read by more people than just yourself and the more I tell my story, the more people it reaches. I regret that you find it boring or repetitive, but please do not criticize me for trying to reach as many freedom loving Wisconsin Citizens as I can.

We can rail about our right to open carry all we want, but as we do so, we caution each other about the gun free school zones, local regulations, State Law, etc. Let's face it. Wisconsin has come a long way, but not far enough. There are some facts that we need to deal with. And as we vocally express what we believe our rights to be, the "sheeple" cringe thinking us a bunch of "gun nuts". We need to win their hearts and minds - one voter at a time.

Until the day when all citizens of the United States, including citizens of Illinois and Wisconsin, have the right to carry, the anti-gun lobby will incite the fears of the sheeple. OK, yes, I do believe that McDonald v City of Chicago gave us all the right to carry as we see fit, but the political reality (especially in Chicago) is that until the courts rule on test cases, some States will continue to trample upon our Civil Right to carry a firearm as we see fit.

Important points to recognize if we want to win the hearts and minds of the ordinary voter:

1) The sheeple are terrified of guns. They want to make sure that only police have them even though they know that methamphetamine crazed bad guys do not give a (insert expletive) that we have laws against that.

2) In concealed carry States, the sheeple are comforted by the fact that the government has screened concealed carry permit holders. AZ, VT, and AK have constitutional carry and there have been no problems, but ours is a war of Public Relations. The 'sheeple' only hear one side of the story and thus want to be sure that concealed carry is limited to those who can pass a background check. They do not care that AK, VT, and AZ have Constitutional Carry and have not had daily recurrences of the Gunfight at OK Corral. (The Brady Bunch is much better at PR than we are.)

3) In order for Wisconsin Open Carry to be truly successful, we need to have a Concealed Carry option. Only in this way can a Wisconsin Citizen carry openly and then conceal when the situation suggests this is the best approach.

Paul, I grew up in Wisconsin and served as a LEO there in Rock County. I now live in what is arguably one of the top 5 gun-friendly States in the USA. I am never not armed. On days I consider the threat lower than low, I only carry my back-up gun. On other days I have a primary carry and a back up carry. All concealed. When I return home to visit my family I actually now feel "naked" without a lawfully carried concealed firearm.

I keep an NRA chart on my home office wall. It shows the States that I can carry in and those I cannot lawfully carry in. As I wind down my career, I realize that I cannot and will not accept a job offer from a Black State like WI or IL - and will not accept a job offer from a "may issue" State in case they decide not to issue to me (Example: Southern Kommiefornia, New Jersey, Maryland, CT, etc.) I will never again live in a State that is not "shall issue" or "Constitutional Carry".

I live for the day when I can add Wisconsin back onto my list of States that I would establish a home in. Thus, please do not chastise me for repeating my message. I would hope that you realize I am just trying to help those "back home" achieve what I now take for granted.

Daily concealed carry is an awesome and terrible responsibility. It is one that I have undertaken after considerable thought and prayer. For me, the decision was easier because I was once paid to carry. Now, it is a personal choice. I choose to be a sheepdog rather than a sheep.

Jim

That would be awesome.

Sorry I was cranky.

How Many?

So, how many people made it to the Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Class?

WI residents?

IL residents?

While this thread is still a sticky - tell us Mike.

Interesting Story for the group.

I met a guy, his wife, and his two children, who have just moved to Utah from New York (they lived in Buffalo). He sold his belongings (couldn't afford the U-Haul), loaded the kids and the wife in their car, camped along the way, and drove from Buffalo NY to Salt Lake City, UT. They had enough money for the first month's rent on an apartment and he has a job prospect at a school in SLC (he is a teacher). He moved from one of the top 10 gun unfriendly states (NY) to one of the top 5 gun friendly states (UT). He could not believe that in UT, State Law allows concealed carry in schools by teachers (and in higher learning institutions by faculty and students over 21).

Today, I took him, the wife, and the two kids to my favorite indoor range (they allow rifles up to .50 BMG). The kids mostly shot a 22 LR bolt action Remington, but the 11 year old female shot my "Black Rifle" (M-4). This is a guy whose kids at ages 11 and 8 can recite range rules and the NRA Cardinal Rules from memory. I did some instruction with the wife using a Taurus 9mm Pro series, and the husband and I had a good spirited competition with the M-4, my 7 inch .44 mag, and the Taurus 9mm. (OK, mostly it was a tie, but he did best me with my own .44 Mag.)

The kids, particularly the 11 year old female child, did better than some adult students I have instructed. This is a guy who has raised his children around firearms. The 11 year old female even scolded one of the store clerks for allowing a customer to "sweep" him with an unloaded rental gun.

Why am I writing about this in an Open Carry forum? - I guess because this guy's kids are the ones who are going to be the sheepdogs who protect us when we are infirm, suffer memory and sight loss, and are in our last time of life. Today, we fight for our Civil Rights under the Constitution. But, our cause has many (Liberal) enemies. The Wolves (bad guys) do not give a (insert expletive) about what the Constitution says - but if the children of today become as we are now in the tomorrow, the cause of the 2nd Amendment has a future.

So, do your children (or grandchildren if you are my age), know the cardinal rules of firearm handling? Have they been taught how to safely handle firearms? Are the comfortable around firearms? Can they recite the NRA Cardinal Rules for handling a firearm? Are they ready to take over for us (as we will pass) in preserving the Civil Right guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution?

If not, what are you waiting for?

Jim