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Thread: Question about Const. Carry?

  1. #1
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    Question about Const. Carry?

    Ok I have not been able to find much on this on the internet. On the 29th Const. Carry becomes legal correct? Does this mean that at 12:01 Am people can conceal their weapons on their person without a permit? Also what are the restrictions to this law. I know that a person cannot carry where liquor is served or places that post a no firearms sign (which I have seen an increase in lately), but any others?

    Thanks for your help

  2. #2
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    The same rules that applied before, will still apply except that you can now conceal your firearm.

    No carry where they sell alcohol for consumption without a concealed carry permit (and the rules that apply).
    No carry on K-12 school grounds (still no 1000' rule).
    No carry in Federal buildings.
    Carrying in places that are posted No Firearms is trespassing and you can be cited if you don't leave when asked.
    Be careful on Reservations.
    Drinking and carrying is Bad News!

    Anything I'm missing?

    INAL, YMMV!

    -MH
    Last edited by March Hare; 07-26-2010 at 07:33 PM.

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    If you are banned from ownership due to felony conviction, you still can't carry OC or CC.

  4. #4
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PavePusher View Post
    If you are banned from ownership due to felony conviction, you still can't carry OC or CC.
    +1 - missed that one, thanks!

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    So I am legally allowed to own a firearm then I can legally carry it concealed.

    I have a Rugar P85...any suggestions on a good concealed holster?

  6. #6
    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    Take a look at Galco: www.usgalco.com or Don Hume: www.donhume.com

    Galco is slightly better quality and higher price but both make reasonable priced functional holsters.

    Edit: I don't remember for certain but think you have to be 21 for concealed carry with or without a permit. Someone that knows for certain please chime in.
    Last edited by TOF; 07-26-2010 at 08:20 PM.
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

  7. #7
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOF View Post
    Take a look at Galco: www.usgalco.com or Don Hume: www.donhume.com

    Galco is slightly better quality and higher price but both make reasonable priced functional holsters.

    Edit: I don't remember for certain but think you have to be 21 for concealed carry with or without a permit. Someone that knows for certain please chime in.
    Indeed, you need to be 21 to conceal your firearm.

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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by March Hare View Post
    +1 - missed that one, thanks!
    It's suprising how many people I run into who think that's going to change.... Especially anti's, but also all too many of our folks.

  9. #9
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    I agree, I'm constantly surprised by how many businesses don't know what the law actually says.

    I work next door to a restaurant that has signs posted (unfortunately) forbidding firearms.
    The bartender there didn't know what the law actually said concerning concealed carry in a bar.
    When I explained it to her, she was really surprised because what she had been told was completely wrong!

    They're keeping their signs up, but now they have a better idea of what the law says.

    Keep on educating people through words and actions, we'll win them over, a little at a time!

    Carry on!

    -MH

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    To OP: for concealment holster I would recommend Kholster www.kholster.com or a Crossbreed Supertuck www.crossbreedholsters.com

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    You NEED a CCW to CARRY in National Parks.
    (The 1000' school rule.) I read a handout from Shooters World, say you are driving on a road (thoroughfare) under 1000' from a school and you get stopped. You have to have a CCW if you are concealed. If carried open you are still fine if on the thoroughfare.
    Last edited by armedman; 07-27-2010 at 02:14 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armedman View Post
    You NEED a CCW to CARRY in National Parks.
    (The 1000' school rule.) I read a handout from Shooters World, say you are driving on a road (thoroughfare) under 1000' from a school and you get stopped. You have to have a CCW if you are concealed. If carried open you are still fine if on the thoroughfare.
    I've open carried at the Grand Canyon without the rangers saying anything, you just can't go into the Federal buildings.

    Do you have a cite for the 1000' rule and ccw?
    I've never had a LEO say anything about carrying anywhere near a school, just not on school grounds.

    I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the GFSZ rule isn't enforced here in AZ.

    -MH
    Last edited by March Hare; 07-27-2010 at 02:45 PM.

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    I've seen nothing re: 1000' rule and National Parks. I would require specific law cited to believe this.

    As far as AZ GFSZ law, just stay off of K-12 grounds. The federal law is not enforced by any state or local agency, and BATF or FBI is not out looking for violators either. It is a moot point here in AZ.

    As a matter of fact, since the federal law was re-vamped in 1996, I'm not aware of anyone actually being charge with it. If anyone has been charged, I would be surprised if it wasn't without first being charged with a violation of state law (like California's GFSZ law). Does anyone have any specific info on this aspect?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by March Hare View Post
    Do you have a cite for the 1000' rule and ccw?
    I've never had a LEO say anything about carrying anywhere near a school, just not on school grounds.
    It's a Federal law. There is no corresponding Arizona law. However, it is a federal offense to carry within 1,000 feet of a government juvenile indoctrination center (Publik Skule) without a CCW permit.

    We (AzCDL) are looking into ways to deal with this in future sessions.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 08-03-2010 at 06:23 PM.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Constitutional Carry will go into effect midnite tomorrow (0001). Sarah Brady, Josh Sugarman and that other hoplobobic hysteric Bradyite whose name escapes me will be having fits. I love it!

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    Negative. The National Parks thing was tucked into a credit card reform bill that became law on February 22, 2010. It stipulates that carriage of deadly weapons shall conform to the laws of the state in which the national park territory rests. Ergo, in Arizona, OC is legal in National Parks. You still cannot carry openly OR concealed into any Federally-owned property, ie, visitors center at the Grand Canyon. But I OC to Coronado and Chiricahua all the time now...

    And as far as the school zone crap...that was overturned. I'll try to find the specific case law but it's not a "law" anymore, at least not an enforceable one. If it were, the Fed would have sued AZ, MO (just to name a few) who have laws permitting you to bring a gun onto school grounds so long as x, y, and z...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mFonz77 View Post
    Negative. The National Parks thing was tucked into a credit card reform bill that became law on February 22, 2010. It stipulates that carriage of deadly weapons shall conform to the laws of the state in which the national park territory rests. Ergo, in Arizona, OC is legal in National Parks. You still cannot carry openly OR concealed into any Federally-owned property, ie, visitors center at the Grand Canyon. But I OC to Coronado and Chiricahua all the time now...

    And as far as the school zone crap...that was overturned. I'll try to find the specific case law but it's not a "law" anymore, at least not an enforceable one. If it were, the Fed would have sued AZ, MO (just to name a few) who have laws permitting you to bring a gun onto school grounds so long as x, y, and z...
    The Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990 was struck down in 1995 by the US Supreme Court ruling on US v. Lopez on the grounds that congress had overstepped its authority under the commerce clause of the constitution.

    Congress immediately responded by passing the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995, which added some vague language about how guns in schools affect interstate commerce. It was a pretty obvious evasion, but the 1995 act hasn't been challenged yet and remains as law. If anyone is ever prosecuted under it (which I'm pretty sure has yet to happen), I'm inclined to think that the Supreme Court won't have very much humor regarding Congress' contempt for their previous ruling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mFonz77 View Post
    And as far as the school zone crap...that was overturned. I'll try to find the specific case law but it's not a "law" anymore, at least not an enforceable one. If it were, the Fed would have sued AZ, MO (just to name a few) who have laws permitting you to bring a gun onto school grounds so long as x, y, and z...
    This is something often mentioned but rarely cited. Here is what I found in a link azcdlfred posted elsewhere. This is from some training materials for AZ CCW instructors, and is a fascinating read. I recommend everyone who carries a firearm in Arizona read it (especially if you've never had a CCW class here):

    http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concea..._ccw_legal.pdf

    LEGAL ISSUES RELATING TO THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE
    By Michael P. Anthony
    (With updated 2010 legislation, D.C. v. Heller & McDonald v. Chicago notes)
    (Version 14.0 - July, 2010)

    There are two parts to the new "Gun Free School Zones Act." The
    first part makes it unlawful to "knowingly possess a firearm that has
    moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a
    place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a
    school zone." 18 U.S.C. 922(q). There are seven exceptions to this
    prohibition:

    (...)

    2. if the individual is licensed by the State in which the
    school zone is located to carry a firearm, and the licensing
    requirements include verification that the individual is qualified
    under law to receive the license;

    (...)

    For the Arizona resident, the "Gun Free School Zones Act" restricts
    rights under state law. Arizona law permits carrying a firearm (concealed
    or openly) on your person or in an automobile, but federal law now
    prohibits doing so in a federal "school zone," except as specifically
    permitted under the federal statute. Arizona CCW permittees appear to
    qualify under the federal law to carry their guns in the federal school
    zones. However, a CCW permittee is not authorized to discharge or
    attempt to discharge a gun in a federal school zone, even though doing so might be justifiable under state law and viewed as a moral obligation
    under certain circumstances (e.g., to save innocent school children from
    an armed attacker.

    As explained earlier in this treatise, under Arizona law, a person
    may use a firearm to defend against imminent threat of death or serious
    bodily injury or to stop specified criminal acts (e.g., rape, robbery,
    kidnapping, etc.). However, it is illegal under the "Gun Free School Zones
    Act" to knowingly or recklessly discharge or attempt to discharge a gun ina federal school zone.

    A violation of the "Gun Free School Zones Act" carries a federal
    penalty of fine and imprisonment for up to five years. 18 U.S.C.
    924(a)(4). Since self-defense and other Arizona "justification" laws do not apply to the "Gun Free School Zones Act," a person who knowingly
    discharges a firearm in a federal school zone in self-defense or to save
    children from an armed madman would be subject to prosecution by
    federal authorities and sentencing up to five years in federal prison. No
    doubt the members of congress who voted for the "Gun Free School
    Zones Act" would assert that no federal prosecutor would pursue such a
    case. But if no federal prosecutor should pursue such a case, why does
    the "Gun Free School Zones Act" make no exceptions for those who use
    a firearm legally under state law? The reality is that people have been
    prosecuted and imprisoned in the United States for unlawfully discharging a firearm while lawfully acting in justified self-defense. Therefore, one should be aware that, if one fires a gun within a federal gun free school zone to justifiably defend oneself or someone else, one risks federal criminal prosecution.
    Which is, of course, ridiculous, but there you have it. If anyone else has any information about Gun Free School Zones, please post. I've heard everything from "Arizona doesn't enforce it" to "it's been found invalid" but the above is the most factual thing I could find so far.

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    not sure that's true

    Quote Originally Posted by mFonz77 View Post
    Negative. The National Parks thing was tucked into a credit card reform bill that became law on February 22, 2010. It stipulates that carriage of deadly weapons shall conform to the laws of the state in which the national park territory rests. Ergo, in Arizona, OC is legal in National Parks. You still cannot carry openly OR concealed into any Federally-owned property, ie, visitors center at the Grand Canyon. But I OC to Coronado and Chiricahua all the time now...

    And as far as the school zone crap...that was overturned. I'll try to find the specific case law but it's not a "law" anymore, at least not an enforceable one. If it were, the Fed would have sued AZ, MO (just to name a few) who have laws permitting you to bring a gun onto school grounds so long as x, y, and z...
    afaik you can carry in buildings if it isn't posted.

  20. #20
    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    afaik you can carry in buildings if it isn't posted.
    Not Federally-owned buildings. That is in the letter of the law. And from a practical standpoint (my own experience), after Feb 22 I went to Coronado and Chiricahua; both of the visitor centers are posted but the signed out on the entrance roads had been changed.

    The *only* thing that *may* be in a grey area legally are outhouses...up at Coronado there are outhouses which are enclosed, but they're more of a "structure" than a "building" IMHO. I'm pretty sure it's not gonna be an issue, unless you bust in on a Park Ranger doin' their business and happen to be carrying...

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