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Thread: The next big thing for Crowd Control in the US...

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The next big thing for Crowd Control in the US...

    Well, it seems that the LRAD "Sound Cannons" developed by the DOD in the 1990's,which have recently been re-deployed for civilian law enforcement use at events like the G20 protests in Pittsburgh and in Canada have only whetted the appetite for Law Enforcement's ever-growing desire for power, control, and the ability to inflict pain on citizens in a manner that doesn't leave marks.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/lo...-pro/19174241/


    The "Active Denial System", or "pain ray" as they call it on the streets of Afghanistan, is a new, even MORE painful technology that has been 20 years in the making. The DOD has been testing this out in the Gulf for a long time, but recently decided to pull them ALL out of the theater, and ship them back to the CONUS.

    Maybe they're gearing up for the next G20 event. Or maybe they'll be deployed at the next anti-war protest. Or maybe we'll see (and feel) these at the next big OC rally.

    Plan on seeing (and perhaps experiencing) these delightful devices at a major political event in the VERY near future...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-war-zone.html

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010...m-afghanistan/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System


    Aren't you proud of your Government?

    Gotta love the "kinder, gentler" America...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-27-2010 at 03:38 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    This is off topic unless tou can fit the ray gun in a holster on your hip.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    off topic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    This is off topic unless tou can fit the ray gun in a holster on your hip.


    hmm news and POLITICAL ALERTS this is news. i see no harm in the info provided to let us know about the police becoming more "para-military" unless you like them lol

    even though not DIRECTLY about OC/CC and RKBA it is interesting that the technology is evolving. guess we will need sound deflectors on our guns LMAO
    Last edited by BerettaFS92Custom; 07-27-2010 at 03:26 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    For anyone who may attend a 2A rally, or a Tea Party event, or those big "Lobbiest Day" events that they have in Richmond every year, I think this topic is VERY on-topic...

    I just thought folks might like to know, the next time they were at a rally, and some big truck rolled up, and they had an intensely painful sensation like their skin was on fire, exactly WHAT was going on...

    Be prepared folks. This is not an "if they will use it" situation. It's just a matter of "when they will use it".

    The 2A and Constitutionalist movements are officially seen as the biggest threat to the current political status quo. If they will use "sound cannons" on a bunch of tree-hugging dirt worshipers in Pittsburgh, they will not hesitate to use this sort of thing on a bunch of "empty holster" protesters in MD, NY, Chicago, or DC soon.

    "Praemonitus, praemunitus."
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    the only good thing about these things is, a couple of well placed shots will disable them. LRAD range is ~300m. Activee Denial System range: 700m max. range of my long range rifle: 1,000m+

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobarino View Post
    the only good thing about these things is, a couple of well placed shots will disable them. LRAD range is ~300m. Activee Denial System range: 700m max. range of my long range rifle: 1,000m+
    It is not polite, nor is it good policy, to suggest illegal acts on this board. It may even be a violation of TOS and get you banned.

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    I saw that "Microwave on wheels" on Modern Weapons last night. Unbelievable! Makes you wonder if there just happens to be a knob in there that changes the frequency so it goes deeper than the advertised 1/64"

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    He didn't recommend any illegal acts.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    It is not polite, nor is it good policy, to suggest illegal acts on this board. It may even be a violation of TOS and get you banned.
    He's just happy to know how to disable a device if it becomes necessary.

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    Are you saying we need to carry earplugs and noise cancelling headphones?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    Are you saying we need to carry earplugs and noise cancelling headphones?
    AND wrap your self in aluminum foil. LOL The latest is a microwave weapon. It heats up your skin.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    Are you saying we need to carry earplugs and noise cancelling headphones?
    That will work to protect you against LRAD, but not ADS. ADS is a millimeter-wave directed energy weapon. It heats up the water and fat in your skin 1/64" below the surface, to give the sensation that you are burning or on fire. Supposedly, the effect is temporary with no long-term effects...

    Short of wearing some sort of Faraday Cage that will block millimeter waves, there is nothing that will defend against it...

    Excrutiating pain. Absolute compliance. Leaves no marks. And it's every bit as "less-than-lethal" as a Tazer...

    This thing is the ultimate sociopathic sadist's playtoy. The person who invented this device will probably win a Nobel Peace Prize...

    The DOD decided they are too "controversial" to use on rioting insurgents in a war zone, so they've removed them from military service, and are shipping them all back to the CONUS. Most likely they will enter the DOD-DOJ Technology Transfer program (like the LRADs) and be parceled out to civilian LEAs.

    Ain't America Great?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I don't know of a single case of OCers being threatened by less lethal force, only drawn guns, or very readily unlocked guns with hands on grips. (Perhaps less lethal force has been threatened or applied to "UOC" people in California, but I don't even count that as a form of carry.) When you deal in lead, so does an oppressive police force. The escalation of force goes up, not back down.

    This is an excellent invention to disperse a truly problematic crowd that isn't heavily armed. Compared to the 60's, this system is a fantastic, life saving idea. It will indeed be an issue to make sure excessive force is never used without proper consequences to offending officers, but that's nothing new or unusual.

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    i seem to recall an Amendment to our Constitution that goes a little something like this:

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
    Number 18 I believe. Seems to be a violation of this Amendment to use this as it is, in my opinion, cruel and unusual, especially BEFORE someone has been convicted of a crime for which they might be punished.

    Not that any government entities really pay any attention to that pesky Constitution anymore...

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Tin foil hat nonsense.

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    That lrad doesn't seem to work all that good for the Japanese in Whale Wars. I doubt protestors are going to be affected much. The microwave deal maybe.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VFORVENDETTA View Post
    50bmg
    Nice Avatar

    great minds think alike!

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    Regular Member American Traditional Citizens (ACT)'s Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    Are you saying we need to carry earplugs and noise cancelling headphones?
    That is what I'm thinking...... maybe put my ipod in then some good muffs....

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Traditional Citizens (ACT) View Post
    That is what I'm thinking...... maybe put my ipod in then some good muffs....
    That won't, it uses microwave energy to create a burning sensation. The sound device will not be thwarted either.

    Besides, this whole post is bull$h!t. The govt' isn't going to develop and deploy devices like these, that do no permanent damage, when they have tear gas, rubber bullets, beanbag guns, and tasers for domestic issues.

    The military expirimented with these, rather than outfit units with less lethal weapons, because in combat zones you're setting yourself up for failure carrying anything but lead.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    Tin foil hat nonsense.
    Actually, that "nonsense" is probably the only effective means of combatting this device in a non-violent manner.

    Pretty scary when the tin foil hat wearers turn out to be right.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    Besides, this whole post is bull$h!t. The govt' isn't going to develop and deploy devices like these, that do no permanent damage, when they have tear gas, rubber bullets, beanbag guns, and tasers for domestic issues.

    You're right... I guess those LRADs that the press reported being used at the Pittsburgh G20, and in Toronto, and Madrid, and Montreal were just REALLY big Walkmans perched on top of those Hummers...


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAwmX...layer_embedded


    Yeah, they'd NEVER pull them from military service and re-deploy them to Civilian Law Enforcement through the DOJ's Technology Transfer Program. They'd NEVER do that...


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/lo...-pro/19174241/

    http://twincities.indymedia.org/2010...rts-pittsburgh

    http://www.securityprousa.com/loraacde.html

    http://gizmodo.com/5369190/lrad-soun...g20-protesters
    Last edited by Dreamer; 08-04-2010 at 07:36 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    You're right... I guess those LRADs that the press reported being used at the Pittsburgh G20, and in Toronto, and Madrid, and Montreal were just REALLY big Walkmans perched on top of those Hummers...


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAwmX...layer_embedded


    Yeah, they'd NEVER pull them from military service and re-deploy them to Civilian Law Enforcement through the DOJ's Technology Transfer Program. They'd NEVER do that...


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/lo...-pro/19174241/

    http://twincities.indymedia.org/2010...rts-pittsburgh

    http://www.securityprousa.com/loraacde.html

    http://gizmodo.com/5369190/lrad-soun...g20-protesters
    I stand corrected. Seems to me like a huge waste of resources when they have adequate means available.

    Unruly mobs of communists (They like to be called anarchists) throwing rocks and bottles, setting police cars on fire, turning over cars, smashing windows, looting, and otherwise destroying property should probably be shot with something in a .30 caliber frangible round.

    I don't care what they do in Madrid, Montreal ot Toronto. If Americans want to travel there and raise hell, they can suffer whatever consequence.

    Further the author of the Pittsburg article "was in Pittsburgh again to deal with my appeal on my summary offense conviction of “disorderly conduct”. So I question his objectivity and credibility. I don't personally care if the police use lethal force on violent mobs of communists, I think LRAD is being too nice. These idiots have destroyed so many millions of dollars of other people's property, and gotten away with it.

    Of course I'm told by Captain Bull$hit (Alex Jones) that these "anarchists" are CIA agents, and used to give the police cause to become "jackboots". This is wrong. Liberals in positions of authority that refuse to punish acts of violence and destruction by leftist rabble are just as much at fault as the mindless little commies themselves.

    So here's an idea, you don't want to be exposed to microwaves and painful soundwaves? Stay away from unruly mobs. I have yet to hear of a single arrest of anyone protesting illegal immigration, only those who oppose the border. I've not yet heard of an arrest at a TEA party rally, let alone windows smashed, looting, or police cars on fire. There was also no looting, burning, or rocks thrown at cops at any anti-obozo care rallies either.

    See a pattern here? Some people can protest gov't without incident (or results), while some people cannot protest gov't without an incident (or result).
    Last edited by PrayingForWar; 08-05-2010 at 02:01 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    Unruly mobs of communists (They like to be called anarchists) throwing rocks and bottles, setting police cars on fire, turning over cars, smashing windows, looting, and otherwise destroying property should probably be shot with something in a .30 caliber frangible round.

    You will stand corrected again, because of this naive statement...

    Although there ARE mobs of loud, obnoxious, black-clad "anarchists" (that are neither REAL anarchists NOR Communists, but rather are mostly just bored suburban teen and 20-something wannabees), the MAJORITY of the people assaulting cops, throwing bricks, and setting things on fire ARE, in fact, police officers acting in the capacity of Agent Provocateurs...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...t-provacateurs

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=19928

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

    http://boingboing.net/2010/06/28/can...ps-histor.html


    We know the FBI did this in the 50's with the Civil Rights movement, and again in the '60s with the hippies and anti-war demonstrators under COINTELPRO.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

    http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm

    If anyone thinks for ONE SECOND that there isn't currently a COINTELPRO-type program, only even more insidious, sophisticated, and scientifically designed, then they are either mentally defective or they are clinically delusional.

    http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/cointelpro.html


    Cass Sunnstein has written papers published at Harvard saying that the Government should infiltrate, instigate, and discredit the entire alternative media and all groups who protest any program the government wants to implement.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...01/15/sunstein

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arthur..._b_453562.html


    Its just a matter of time before these black-clad, masked undercover thugs start showing up at 2A Rallies, "Restore the Constitution" events, and OpenCarry dinners and raising hell to make us look like some sort of violent nutjobs. And I guarantee that when this happens, if you tackle a few of these black-clad, masked wackos and rifle through their pockets, you'll find "credentials".

    Just like Toronto. Just like Montebello. Just like Pittsburgh. Just like Madrid. Just like London. Just like Selma. Just like Berkeley. Just like the Gulf of Tonkin. Just like the Lusitania. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

    Wake up, bro. The "enemy" isn't who you think he is...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 08-05-2010 at 03:26 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    Unruly mobs of communists (They like to be called anarchists) throwing rocks and bottles, setting police cars on fire, turning over cars, smashing windows, looting, and otherwise destroying property should probably be shot with something in a .30 caliber frangible round.

    I don't care what they do in Madrid, Montreal ot Toronto. If Americans want to travel there and raise hell, they can suffer whatever consequence.
    Or...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAfzU...eature=related

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Let me get this straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    You will stand corrected again, because of this naive statement...

    Although there ARE mobs of loud, obnoxious, black-clad "anarchists" (that are neither REAL anarchists NOR Communists, but rather are mostly just bored suburban teen and 20-something wannabees), the MAJORITY of the people assaulting cops, throwing bricks, and setting things on fire ARE, in fact, police officers acting in the capacity of Agent Provocateurs...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...t-provacateurs

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=19928

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

    http://boingboing.net/2010/06/28/can...ps-histor.html


    We know the FBI did this in the 50's with the Civil Rights movement, and again in the '60s with the hippies and anti-war demonstrators under COINTELPRO.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

    http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm

    If anyone thinks for ONE SECOND that there isn't currently a COINTELPRO-type program, only even more insidious, sophisticated, and scientifically designed, then they are either mentally defective or they are clinically delusional.

    http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/cointelpro.html


    Cass Sunnstein has written papers published at Harvard saying that the Government should infiltrate, instigate, and discredit the entire alternative media and all groups who protest any program the government wants to implement.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...01/15/sunstein

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arthur..._b_453562.html


    Its just a matter of time before these black-clad, masked undercover thugs start showing up at 2A Rallies, "Restore the Constitution" events, and OpenCarry dinners and raising hell to make us look like some sort of violent nutjobs. And I guarantee that when this happens, if you tackle a few of these black-clad, masked wackos and rifle through their pockets, you'll find "credentials".

    Just like Toronto. Just like Montebello. Just like Pittsburgh. Just like Madrid. Just like London. Just like Selma. Just like Berkeley. Just like the Gulf of Tonkin. Just like the Lusitania. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

    Wake up, bro. The "enemy" isn't who you think he is...
    OK, tell me how it makes sense for clowns like Cass Sunnstein, a far left insane moonbat, to "infiltrate, instigate, and discredit" other far left moonbats?

    The bottom line is, when I see "infiltrators" at events I participate in doing nefarious things, they've ALWAYS been SEIU thugs or liberal ****** bags. Not cops. You can't incite violence in a crowd that isn't inclined to engage in it in the first place. I'm not convinced that these local police "infiltrators" antagonized some "bored suburban teen and 20-something wannabees" to do something they wouldn't ordinarily do. There's also a plausible argument for police dressing up as pinko extremists, in order to identify people committing criminal acts. I don't buy the union thug bull$hit about the cops themselves being the ones who started it. I think the union thugs recognized that the police "infiltrators" were there to get intel, and accused them of being ringleaders. There's always two sides to a story, and I seldom believe anything leftist sociopaths have to say.

    I'll tell you what though, should some "agent provocateurs" show up at any rally I would attend. They would be restrained by the crowd, until police arrived. When that happens, I'll give you credibility. Regardless, like I said, our side is not inclined to violence, pinko freaks are.

    I think it's you who needs to wake up. You're living in a nightmare created by people who want you to be marginalized, and want you led astray and disenfranchised. You and I DO HAVE the same enemy. I suspect people leading you work for them. I was led by them myself for a while, and as soon as I started asking questions I became a "misinformation agent" and ostracized. It's funny how groupthink works. Everyone can see the same thing, and once someone else voices a different perspective than that which the leadership endorses, that person becomes persona non grata. Try it, you'll see.

    One more thing Dreamer, these "bored suburban teen and 20-something wannabees" you speak of. While they rail against Globalization, are they doing it against the marxist agenda promoted by some of the elite, or against capitaism? Do these "bored suburban teen and 20-something wannabees" promote gun rights, private property rights, a free market economy, or any sort of Judeo-Christian values, or do they promote an agenda that would dissolve these things? Marx said "workers of the world unite", in essence calling for a single world collectivist state. Aren't these same "anti globalist" ********** pushing for the same thing?
    Last edited by PrayingForWar; 08-05-2010 at 05:15 PM. Reason: added more text

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    It seems they DID find a use for these devices.......

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_jail_ray_gun

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