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Asked to cover up by a customer, outside of a Hooters.

ShooterMcGavin

Regular Member
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Feb 12, 2008
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I rode my motorcycle to Hooters with a large group of riders today. I was wearing only jeans, T-shirt, and shoulder holster with my M&P40. After standing outside and talking with friends for at least an hour, I overheard a woman complaining. She is in the bike community, but doesn't ride, and had asked me to cover my gun at a bike show on Sunday, stating "this isn't that kind of event". A guy who I have met in the past came up to me and asked me to cover my gun. I told him I can't because I don't have a jacket with me. He said I was making some people nervous and mentioned something about the manager, but never said that the manager had asked me to leave. However, he was asking me to cover it (or leave) and asked that I do not come back while open carrying. I did not want to start a battle within the bike community. I told him that I would stay around for another 10 minutes or so, to say 'bye' to friends, and then I would leave. I suspect that the girl who was nervous rallied other people to support her, or at least to agree with "yeah, I don't know why he needs a gun", and then had her friend ask me to leave.

What is Hooter's corporate policy on OC? Where do I find this info? I want to find their policy on OC, then contact the branch manager and explain the situation as well as their policy, and then abide by their policy in the future (whatever their policy is).

This happened at the Hooters at 9635 Des Moines Memorial Drive, Seattle, WA‎. It's pretty annoying because I did not even enter the building! Any advice or direction is appreciated.
 

amzbrady

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Mar 1, 2009
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Marysville, Washington, USA
Doesnt matter what Hooters policy is. It was customers who had the problem, not Hooters. You didnt have an employee come up to you did you? If they dont like the color of somones skin do they ask them to leave? If they dont like the way someone is dressed do they ask them to go home and change. Do they have visable tattoo's? If someone doesnt like tattoo's would they cover them up for them out of consideration, or would they laugh at them and say "what nerve"?
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
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Nov 15, 2006
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Fairfax Co., VA
There are a number of ways to handle such a situation. I will focus on just one. I'm not saying it is the best. I'm not saying it will work in every similar OC situation. I am saying I have seen it be a howling success outside of an OC situation, producing immediate results that opened the door to a resolution of the situation.

First a little backround info.

The comment "some people" is a vagueness. An indefiniteness. When it accompanies an attack or criticism, it is hard to address or fight back against because you cannot locate your target. For certain people, using this tactic it is unintentional. They have been imprecise for so long they do not even realize they are doing it. But, for others, the tactic is deliberate. Also, it can inflate a single person into many. A handy trick for someone trying to make it seem like there is more opposition or more critics than there really are. Another version of the "some people" vagueness tactic is "everybody says..." or "everybody thinks..."

Everybody has a name. Every person is a single, identifiable person.

So, a solution is to just say, "Everybody has a name. Who are these some people? Name one." It is an entirely fair question. If they exist at all, they are targeting you. It is completely fair for you to know who is targeting you, and for you to know who your target should be. (Verbal resolution target, not bullet target.)

A common response to your question is, "Well, I don't know." A very workable reply is, "Well, if you remember their name, let me know, and I will tell you something very interesting about that person." Then keep quiet. You've planted your hook. Don't say anything more until the other person replies.

In an OC situation, you could try, "Well, I'm pretty easy to talk to. Tell one of the "some people" I don't bite and they can come speak to me themselves."

Or, "Tell one of the "some people" I have something very interesting to tell them."

Of course, you may hear, "They are too nervous to talk to you." You could reply, "Oh, well. I guess they'll just have to see for themselves that I'm not dangerous."

It may turn out the "some people" is really nobody but the person himself.
 
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ShooterMcGavin

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I agree with you, amz. However, I want to go back and be able to OC. If/When someone asks me to cover it up in the future, I want to be able to inform them that I am acting within the policy of the property owner.

Also, if they have a policy against OC, I will know that I should not return and press the issue, which would force them to ask me to leave.
 
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Motofixxer

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May 14, 2010
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Somewhere over the Rainbow
Well a response that I have used is..."thank you for your opinion" or "I will consider that" There is not much response anyone can say to that and kind of shuts them down. But I would also question who has the problem and offer to discuss it directly with them. If it's just a customer...so what. They are not an owner or manager who can speak on behalf of the company. Be polite, but if you have to just stop talking to them. Some people just have a paranoia and can't be talked to or reasoned with.
 

amzbrady

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Mar 1, 2009
Messages
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Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
I agree with you, amz. However, I want to go back and be able to OC. If/When someone asks me to cover it up in the future, I want to be able to inform them that I am acting within the policy of the property owner.

Also, if they have a policy against OC, I will know that I should not return and press the issue, which would force them to ask me to leave.

I think the best thing is, not to have your CPL on you and let them know that you dont, and to cover up would make you a criminal, and tell them thanks for their concern. As far as policy, if they do have a policy, the easiest way to find out is by carrying on the premisis. If they have a policy a Hooters staff member will notify you at that time. As far as acting within policy, you are according to State law.
 
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ShooterMcGavin

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I think the best thing is, not to have your CPL on you and let them know that you dont, and to cover up would make you a criminal, and tell them thanks for their concern...
Can't do that if I ride a motorcycle to the place. The law states that a CPL is required when IN a motor vehicle. However, it has never been tested in court whether that applies to a motorcycle or not. I can't afford to be the test case.
 

amzbrady

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Mar 1, 2009
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Marysville, Washington, USA
Can't do that if I ride a motorcycle to the place. The law states that a CPL is required when IN a motor vehicle. However, it has never been tested in court whether that applies to a motorcycle or not. I can't afford to be the test case.


Sorry I misunderstood your post. I didnt realize you were on your bike when they asked you to cover up.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
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Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Citezen makes some great points.

Another proven technique among a group of acquaintances. Look at the guy and go "hmmm....interesting" and walk away and go talk to someone else. Don't be rude but pleasant and genuinely curious to there remark but uninterested in any further conversation about it. If they follow you then they have become the aggressor and now would be the time to ask them some questions as to rights, the law and there real interest in the issue.
 

Bill Starks

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Dec 27, 2007
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Nortonville, KY, USA
unless you had an issue with management or an employee, I would be hesitant in contacting Hooters Corp on their policy.

I wonder if this lady was related to the lady that hassled us at the Pick Quick event?
 

Aryk45XD

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
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Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
I had kids with me today at McDonalds

So I told him I won't cover up when the manager asked me. He said there are kids here. Pretty ironic, but a lady behind me vouched for me and got pretty loud about it. I was satisfied, since he was. I came back in after eating to drop a few pamphlets off.
 

ShooterMcGavin

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Why should I be hesitant in contacting Hooter's corp on their OC policy?
If I politely send the message to the fellow biker "no, I won't cover up and I won't leave" and then they go to the management and request to have me removed; If I have not found out what the Hooter's policy is, the management can feel free to make up their own policy on the spot.

If I do research the policy of Hooter's regarding OC...
1) If Hooter's policy is to follow state law, then I would have done my homework and I would know the policy. In that case, I would inform the management that they are operating outside of the company policy and give them proof.
2) If Hooter's policy is that they do not allow OC, I won't force them to remove me in front of everyone, who would really dislike me for telling them "I don't care how you feel about my gun".
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
Why should I be hesitant in contacting Hooter's corp on their OC policy?
If I politely send the message to the fellow biker "no, I won't cover up and I won't leave" and then they go to the management and request to have me removed; If I have not found out what the Hooter's policy is, the management can feel free to make up their own policy on the spot.

If I do research the policy of Hooter's regarding OC...
1) If Hooter's policy is to follow state law, then I would have done my homework and I would know the policy. In that case, I would inform the management that they are operating outside of the company policy and give them proof.
2) If Hooter's policy is that they do not allow OC, I won't force them to remove me in front of everyone, who would really dislike me for telling them "I don't care how you feel about my gun".

Hooters Corp Policy is anti CC & OC.
This thread: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?64707-Asked-to-leave-Hooters-in-Newport-News/page3

<snip>
In areas where concealed weapons are allowed, we do post a sign that says firearms and other weapons are not permitted on the premises. Thankfully, it is a choice we have the freedom to make. We respect those customers who decide not to patronize our business because of this decision.
 

Mainsail

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
Was it a horizontal or vertical style shoulder holster? Some people get nervous when they can see down the barrel as is often the case with a horizontal holster.

Nevertheless, I think you should have stayed.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
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Location
Whatcom County
A guy at Starbucks Barkley asked me to cover up I simply said "No" and went about my business.
He continued to make a scene while I ignored him, he was the one that looked like a fool, the other customers and barista's where chuckling at him. And his daughter was begging him to shut up. Eventually he got it and did. Sometimes that is the best thing to do too.
 

amlevin

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Feb 16, 2007
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Just a quick question on a related matter. If one is riding a motorcycle and decides to enter an establisment where firearms are prohibited by law would you store your weapon? My recollection of MC's from when I used to ride is that they don't offer the most secure options. What are people doing today to secure their firearms when they want to go in and "wash the bugs from their teeth"?
 

Kryteon

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Aug 18, 2009
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78
Location
Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
I'm a Harley rider and I ride a lot. I always carry when I do.

I never leave my weapon with my bike. It goes where I go.

First, I don't frequent places that I "know" don't allow firearms. But in the few cases I do, I conceal and enter anyway.

I don't condone or recommend this, but that's what I do.

As to the Hooters situation. I would simply say, "No".

If that doesn't end it, I would leave and not ride with those people again.

Kryteon
 

jt59

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Joined
Jul 19, 2010
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Location
Central South Sound
Needs food service

I read in the King County Training Bulletin posted on a link here, a training "Scenario" that outlined and clarified the issue.....

I ride a Road King and this is my take.....and seems to be supported through the Training bulletin "scenario" on OC that references out the code.

If it is just a bar (alcohol), then you are breaking the law if you enter armed, even concealed. If they also have a food menu and a separated eating area from the bar (restaraunt) in which you are sitting or gathering your clan, then no problem for either CC or Open as long as you use wait staff for bug juice....and they have no corporate policy.

It just takes a little more trip planning for those Thursday night Taco rides....I wouldn't leave anything in my saddle box either, even though I can lock it.

Just a quick question on a related matter. If one is riding a motorcycle and decides to enter an establisment where firearms are prohibited by law would you store your weapon? My recollection of MC's from when I used to ride is that they don't offer the most secure options. What are people doing today to secure their firearms when they want to go in and "wash the bugs from their teeth"?
 
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gogodawgs

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Oct 25, 2009
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Federal Way, Washington, USA
RCW 9.41.300

(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

Only the part of an establishment that is 21 and over. You will see this sign as the WSLCB says it is required.
No Firearms
Firearms Prohibited Signs are required to be posted in each tavern and cocktail lounge (RCW 9.41.300).

LIQ%20237%20%20Back%20Type%20II%20Firearm%20Sign_Page_1.jpg



I read in the King County Training Bulletin posted on a link here, a training "Scenario" that outlined and clarified the issue.....

I ride a Road King and this is my take.....and seems to be supported through the Training bulletin "scenario" on OC that references out the code.

If it is just a bar (alcohol), then you are breaking the law if you enter armed, even concealed. If they also have a food menu and a separated eating area from the bar (restaraunt), then no problem for either CC or Open as long as you use wait staff for bug juice....and they have no corporate policy.

It just takes a little more trip planning for those Thursday night Taco rides....I wouldn't leave anything in my saddle box either, even though I can lock it.
 
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