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Thread: MPD Open-Records Request, Gun-Free-School-Zone information

  1. #1
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    MPD Open-Records Request, Gun-Free-School-Zone information

    An email send FROM Lieutenant Gary J. Gacek of MPD TO Brookfield Chief of Police.

    Discussion of GFSZ. Milwaukee Police Department admits Wisconsin Carry's contention in our GFSZ lawsuit that you can't go anywhere in the city without violating a school zone. School zone's practically foreclose the right to carry.

    Police also admit to "struggling" with how to intervene with open-carriers going about their law-abiding business without violating the law/constitution.

    Read for yourself


    Chief,

    Yes we are aware of point (1). This is something that the DA's office made very clear to us. While the "knowingly" threshold is a burden certainly for conviction, this statute gives us a greater ability to stop, temporarily detain, and ask some pointed questions that we otherwise would not be able to do absent the school zone. While a subject may use ignorance as a defense, an order-in of such cases would seem appropriate. Gun gets seized and the DA can make a charging decision. With close to 400 schools in the city, it's unreasonable to go armed in a residential neighborhood and not know you're close to a school of some sort.

    I know this isn’t the most solid ground to stand on, but we're struggling with intervention options short of violating the law / Constitution ourselves.


    Gary


    Lieutenant Gary J. Gacek

    Milwaukee Police Department | Office of Management, Analysis and Planning
    749 W. State Street #714C – 53233 | 414-935-7918 | ggacek@milwaukee.gov




    -----Original Message-----
    From: Collins@ci.brookfield.wi.us [mailto:Collins@ci.brookfield.wi.us]
    Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:48 PM
    To: Gacek, Gary
    Subject: Re: Open Carry Analysis & Gun Free School Zone Statute



    Gary:

    I took another look at the Gun-Free School Zone stat. 948.605 and the Criminal Jury Instructions for that felony. This may not be the silver bullet some people think it is.

    (1.) One of the elements that the cops must have for arrest is probable cause (beyond a reasonable doubt at trial) "that the defendant knew or had reasonable cause to believe that he possessed a firearm in a school zone."
    (Criminal Jury Instructions) I surmise that the further away from the school (999 feet or around several blocks away from the school, the harder it will be to prove that the open carrier knew he was in a school zone. I further surmise that this would be a key question to ask the carrier BEFORE an arrest was made. (I wonder what Chisholm's charging policy is on this point of knowledge of being inside the 1,000 feet.)

    (2.) This felony offense also applies to off-duty coppers per Wis. Stat.
    948.605 (2)(b)6 which requires that the copper is "acting in his or her official capacity;"

    If I go to watch my kid at the playground or for an athletic event on a school field, I cannot lawfully carry a firearm while doing so off duty because I am not really acting in my official capacity as a cop, only as a parent. This is something I have tried to change for several sessions of the legislature but to no avail. I am trying again in this session through the Waukesha County delegation.

    This gun-free zone statute first emerged in 1991, long before 9-11 and world terrorism. It should no longer apply to off-duty cops. Just thought I would share this for whatever it's worth.



    Dean J. Collins
    Assistant Chief of Police
    City of Brookfield Police Dept.
    2100 N. Calhoun Rd.
    Brookfield, WI 53005-5054
    (262) 787-3567
    Fax: (262) 796-6701
    collins@ci.brookfield.wi.us



    "Gacek, Gary"
    <GGACEK@milwaukee
    .gov> To
    "Dean Collins"
    05/04/2009 02:23 <collins@ci.brookfield.wi.us>
    PM cc

    Subject
    Open Analysis













    <<Training Bulletin 2009-02 Package.pdf>>






    Lieutenant Gary J. Gacek
    Office of Management, Analysis and Planning Milwaukee Police Department
    749 W. State Street #714C - 53233
    414-935-7918 | ggacek@milwaukee.gov


    [attachment "Training Bulletin 2009-02 Package.pdf" deleted by Dean Collins/Brookfield]
    Last edited by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman; 07-28-2010 at 12:08 PM.
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    This gun-free zone statute first emerged in 1991, long before 9-11 and world terrorism. It should no longer apply to off-duty cops. Just thought I would share this for whatever it's worth.



    Dean J. Collins
    Assistant Chief of Police
    City of Brookfield Police Dept.

    Well, then it (the GFSZ statute) shouldn't apply to any other law-abiding citizen either.

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    So he is in favor for looking the other way for off duty cops. LOL!
    How ridiculous is that to think that only off duty cops have constitutional rights?

    It juts goes to show that LEO intentionally use the GFSZ for purposes other than what it was intended.
    They use it as a means to confiscate firearms and create felons out of law abiding citizens.

    Maybe they could use some advice from D.A. Fox. Better yet maybe D.A. Fox should run for D.A. in Milwaukee County.
    Think of all of the money he would save the county by not prosecuting bogus charges through the court system.
    Think of how much that would alleviate the case load of the Milwaukee County Court System. Now that would be saving Tax Payer dollars!

  4. #4
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    He may be an on-duty cop only during his shift, but I'm an on-duty citizen 24/7.

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    It juts goes to show that LEO intentionally use the GFSZ for purposes other than what it was intended.
    They use it as a means to confiscate firearms and create felons out of law abiding citizens.
    Indeed. Appears to be a conspiracy amongst multiple departments to find ways to prohibit law-abiding citizens from exercising their right to carry. A right guaranteed by the Wisconsin Constitution and now affirmed as a "fundamental" right by the US. Supreme Court.

    In their OWN words they acknowledge that many in law enforcement thought the GFSZ law was the "silver bullet" to the right to carry for Wisconsinites.

    This information has been forwarded to our attorney for use in the GFSZ lawsuit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    Indeed. Appears to be a conspiracy amongst multiple departments to find ways to prohibit law-abiding citizens from exercising their right to carry. A right guaranteed by the Wisconsin Constitution and now affirmed as a "fundamental" right by the US. Supreme Court.

    In their OWN words they acknowledge that many in law enforcement thought the GFSZ law was the "silver bullet" to the right to carry for Wisconsinites.

    This information has been forwarded to our attorney for use in the GFSZ lawsuit.
    I bet your glad I kept Badgering you. LOL! jk

  7. #7
    McX
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    wow, just plain wow. conspiracy to commit schoolzone.

  8. #8
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    wow, just plain wow. conspiracy to commit schoolzone.
    This is just AWESOME! I guess there are special classes of citizens!

  9. #9
    McX
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    or as some of my critics say; those who have no class, like me heh-heh.

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    If I go to watch my kid at the playground or for an athletic event on a school field, I cannot lawfully carry a firearm while doing so off duty because I am not really acting in my official capacity as a cop, only as a parent.
    This gun-free zone statute first emerged in 1991, long before 9-11 and world terrorism. It should no longer apply to off-duty cops. Just thought I would share this for whatever it's worth.
    This guy is a nut, why would he want to carry a gun to his kids football game and put all the children at risk? That gun could just go off and kill little kids and babies. I cant believe he feels the need to carry a gun in such a safe place with all those no gun signs, he must be compensating for having a small penis or wants to feel macho. His mom probably didn't hug him enough when he was little.











    Just kidding



    Unfortunately that's what they think about us lowly citizens who would like to have the opportunity to defend ourselves and children against "world terrorism" too.
    Last edited by Jason in WI; 07-28-2010 at 07:51 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Everybody at Wisconsin Carry deserves a big thank you for your effort, THANK YOU!!!

  12. #12
    Regular Member AdamXD's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who smells a huge civil rights conspiracy?
    J.A.Salinas
    "Natural Selection is another way of God telling you you're an idiot"

  13. #13
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    This is very enlightening information to the attitude of police officials regarding the average citizen. I hope you continue to post this information as you discover it.

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