Thread: South Chipotle in Longmont.
I've been studying OC for a bit, but just now got a chance to really do it. I'd appreciate comments, better techniques, etc concerning my encounter today.
My rig: riding on a motorcycle with a stainless 1911 inside a horizontally mounted shoulder holster.
I was waiting in front of the store for my friend to show up when 2 guys approached me casually and asked a few questions:
"Hey man, what are you doing over here with a gun strapped to you?"
-"I'm getting a burrito, man. What are you guys up to?"
"you're carrying a gun to get a burrito?"
-"yup, just chilling here waiting my friend to arrive so we can grab lunch."
"So you're not an off-duty cop or anything?"
-"Nope, just out for lunch."
I saw he had a Wisconsin shirt on and kinda finished off the rest of the conversation:
-"Wisconsin's laws are probably a little different, but in Colorado you don't need a permit and you can open carry most places. So it's perfectly legal to open carry as you go around town."
He nodded and went off about his business. I'd say that was a positive encounter. The one INSIDE Chipotle was very interesting, though. An older (55-65 yr old) couple sat behind me. I immediately noticed the woman get flustered, make 3 or 4 quick glances, and then start eating. After 30 mins or so her husband came around agressively, grabbed the chair next to me, and said:
"I'm all for carrying (I really hate these 'qualifying statements' BTW), but I'm not going sit here while you point your God damn gun at me!"
-"Sir, I'm not pointing my weapon at you."
"The hell you're not! I'm staring at your God damn barrel!"
-"Sir, are you just a customer here? Then enjoy the rest of your meal."
"Turn that damn thing down to the ground, idiot."
-"Sir, I hope you enjoy your meal."
They mumbled for another 5 minutes at the table about how I was an idiot, etc, etc and then moved to another table once available.
How do you deal with a guy like that?
I don't think you really could have handled it any better. The design of your rig is one in which the barrel is facing behind you, I wouldn't personally wear a rig like that, but it is just a personal choice on what you're comfortable with. The older gentleman could have handled his situation better by saying something like "Nice 1911, but I think you could do with a better holster..." if he really felt he had to say something. On a whole it wasn't a bad encounter, just one that led to a confrontation about the design and choice of holster and obviously someone who thinks that only the vertical shoulder holsters should be sold.
I hope this incident won't deter you and that you'll enjoy the rest of your carry experiences without hassle.
You handled it the best way you could I believe.
I am personally not a fan of OC horizontal shoulder rigs for this exact scenario but will support your right 100%.
I only wear the shoulder rig when I'm on the bike. It's uncomfortable to ride with one on your waist for long periods of time. No, today didn't deter me from open carry. Sure, some old man didn't like my setup, but 2 guys outside Chipotle learned something and 2 people in the Tmobile store at 17th/Main (very tight quarters) smiled when I explained the situation, as well.
Muzzle happens. It's gotta point somewhere. And guns don't just "go off"....nevermind the retainment strap between the hammer and firing pin.
Yes, the muzzle points aft...but how many people do you think tailgated me on I-25 today? HA!
lol I'll bet nobody tailgated you. Like I said, it's a personal choice for me, I don't like the way you have to draw from a shoulder rig, maybe I'll get one and try it out someday... I'm glad you'll still carry and I'm glad you had good experiences today as well. Maybe we'll have to get a statewide meet-up going on.
Presentation from a shoulder rig is definitely not the fastest. And, on a motorcycle, it would probably be a chore to get out, but it's the most comfortable type for riding.
Now, I considered carrying two 1911s...one in the shoudler rig and one on my hip to solve that problem, but chickened out. A shiny 1911 in my shoulder rig draws enough attention ALREADY!
Have you thought about a drop leg? I have a cheapy that I use through the winter to avoid a crappy concealing charge.
You left out the most important detail, what are you riding?
I've got a drop leg holster, but even then, when you sit down you're going to be pointing the weapon forward. You can never win, the muzzle always points somewhere.
I was riding my dad's 2009 Black Road King. Such a sweet ride!
How do you handle a guy like that? Just the way you did.
He's not going to sit there while XYZ? The hell he's not, he did so for 30 minutes.
My issue with carrying on a motorcylce is that you can't control the throttle in the unlikely event you have to draw.
I wasn't worried about the muzzle. I was thinking for comfort riding. I would think that it would be just as, if not more comfortable than a shoulder rig.
As far as comfort when riding my motorcycles, I use a Blackhawk Serpa paddle holster - comfort and retention.
As for the yahoo in Chipotle, I would have taken exception to his choice of language but aside from that there's nothing wrong with the way you handled it.
Sounds like you did ok. Shoulder carry isn't my first choice. A friend of mine has a similar setup, but says open carrying with the gun around the shoulder puts the weapon more at eye level so people are more drawn to it and will make comments. Since he is from Texas, a non-open carry state, he is more comfortable concealing anyway but supports the right to OC if you choose to do so. I simply keep a simple waistband retention holster for my XD, cover with a jacket or go IWB when the situation warrants it. It is all what about comfort, convenience, and ease of access. I don't think you could have done any better and you were not in the wrong. A properly holstered weapon isn't going to hurt anybody, so I would have just chuckled and went about my business.
You handled it well, being polite to someone quite a bit older was a good tactic. I wear a shoulder holster in my Corvette--right bolster is in the way for most belt carry, but conceal it when I get out with a coat, or have a second belt holster available. I agree with Zack--look at a thigh rig, they are quite versatile these days.
If your arm substantially covers the holster--which can happen with a horizontal shoulder, you could be considered carrying concealed. And the muzzle pointing at someone behind you while seated can create a problem that next time may not go so well. In a 1911, cocked and locked is the correct carry mode, but if I was sitting there and had the muzzle pointing at me or my wife I'd make damned sure the pistol was condition 1 or 3. Damned sure. So I don't blame the guy for coming over. Think about it. How could he know what your carry condition was?
"They mumbled for another 5 minutes at the table about how I was an idiot, etc, etc and then moved to another table once available.
How do you deal with a guy like that?"
I absolutely support constitutional carry everywhere, OK having said that, I would prefer a different style holster, perhaps a vertical holster? No offense intended. Just my 2 cents.
Nothing at all wrong with your mode of carry. That knucklehead had a better chance of getting into a head-on collision on the way home while simultaneously scratching a winning lottery ticket and getting a lap dance from Jessica Alba than he did of your gun just deciding all on its own to fire just because it happened to be in the horizontal position. What a *******. I'd think a forum of gun toters would understand that as well, but people never cease to amaze me.
"The right of self-defense never ceases. It is among the most sacred, and alike necessary to nations and to individuals."
- President James Monroe
Did anyone say that he should not have carried in his chosen method?
Did it ever occur to you that this movement is still pretty young and if we can just maybe make a few minor adjustments to make those that are on the fence about OC a little more comfortable (and avoid as much strife as possible) that we may want to think about it?
I'd stop pointing the gun at his head."How do you deal with a guy like that?"
Maybe you could tell me where, in all firearm safety rules you've ever read, where it says "ALWAYS POINT THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION.....BUT IF YOUR HAND ISN'T ON IT, IT'S O.K.". I must have missed this one. There must be some small disclaimer where folks wearing horizontal rigs are exempt from "ALWAYS". You must be following the "MOST THE TIME POINT THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION" rule intended solely for horizontal rig wearers.
I was under the assumption that one of the reasons we open carriers carried openly was to familiarize the general public with normal everyday citizens who responsibly carry firearms in order to gain acceptance.
You must think ******* the public off by letting them look at the hollow point chambered in your hogleg must be an effective way of gaining their acceptance.
Maybe you could print out your horizontal rig wearers exemption to that "ALWAYS" part so you could tape it to your back for those staring down the barrel of your heater to read so they'll be comforted.
I know it won't go off. You know it won't go off. 99% of the people familiar with firearms know it won't go off. Everyone in the world can know it won't go off. So?
I'm still googling the exeption to the #1 rule of firearm safety. I can't seem to find it. Maybe you could point it out for me?
Guys, let's not dissolve into infighting and flamewars on this. We have to keep our eyes on the bigger picture and common goal. Namely, how do I get a lap dance from Jessica Alba and what do I do to sublimate until Machete is out on DVD and I can watch her and Michelle Rodriguez go all bad-ass pistolera? I'm trying Amanda Peet in The Whole Nine Yards and it's just not working.
How do you deal with a person like that? Same way, regardless of topic.
"Sir, you are a liar and an a$$hole; I've no need to comply with either."
The first rule of firearms safety involves pointing a weapon. If it is not in your hand, you can't point it. The argument is absurd. Where is the gun pointing when it's in a gun case? Leaning against a wall? I'm sure it points at an airplane or two in the course of the day...
Pointing a gun, as referred to in the first rule of firearms safety, means that it's in your hand and you're pointing it at stuff. A deliberately false broadening of this rule is merely the manufacture of an excuse to pick a fight and be an a$$hole, too.
Last edited by ixtow; 08-05-2010 at 07:43 AM.