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Thread: OC during labor day?

  1. #1
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    OC during labor day?

    hey guys just wondering if anyone knows if i can oc while walking across the mighty mac on labor day, this will be my 15th year walking, and i have never seen anyone oc while walking, just wondered if anyone has any ideas. also the campground we stay at sells alcohol in there store, because of this do i need written permission or a cpl to open carry on the camp grounds, outside of the store.
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
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    first rule of open carry, know your laws. second rule of open carry, never ask permission. third rule of open carry, rule number one supersedes rule number two

  2. #2
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Bridge walk should be fine.

    Campground should be fine other than the fact it is private property. Stay out of the store with your gun unless you have a CPL or written permission.

    Where did that section of law on premises go... hmm Dr Todd you posted it... help!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Is "this" it? 28.425o

    It's CC law, though...
    Last edited by Taurus850CIA; 07-28-2010 at 09:19 PM.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

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    1776"

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  4. #4
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    No it was a section of the Liquor licencing law that showed how only the building that housed the booze was off limits.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  5. #5
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    13 chapters of Michigan Liquor Control Code.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  6. #6
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    750.234d

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    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

  8. #8
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I understand what you are saying Stainless... but when I find the right section of code you will see as I did that premises for a licensed establishment does NOT include the parking lot.

    Which would also mean the campground would be ok as well... Arg so many pages of code.
    Last edited by autosurgeon; 07-28-2010 at 10:05 PM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I thought you wanted the "with permission" cite. Couldn't figure why you diddn't know 234d though.

  10. #10
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I thought you wanted the "with permission" cite. Couldn't figure why you diddn't know 234d though.
    If I did... it would be BC of brain overload caused by looking at too many pages of legalese!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Hahahaha, thats been my whole problem learning gun laws, my head turns to goo after a bit. Thats also why sometimes I say things I say about those laws. Some people really don't like me because of it, and it really buggs me, but I guess not everyone will like everyone else.

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Hahahaha, thats been my whole problem learning gun laws, my head turns to goo after a bit. Thats also why sometimes I say things I say about those laws. Some people really don't like me because of it, and it really buggs me, but I guess not everyone will like everyone else.
    Is this it:

    "Licensed premises" means any portion of a building, structure, room,
    or enclosure on real estate that is owned, leased, used, controlled, or
    operated by a licensee in the conduct of the business at the location for
    which the licensee is licensed by the commission, except when otherwise
    specified by commission rule or written commission order.

    http://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admin...pt=LG&RngHigh=
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  13. #13
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Is this it:

    "Licensed premises" means any portion of a building, structure, room,
    or enclosure
    on real estate that is owned, leased, used, controlled, or
    operated by a licensee in the conduct of the business at the location for
    which the licensee is licensed by the commission, except when otherwise
    specified by commission rule or written commission order.

    http://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admin...pt=LG&RngHigh=

    Yep that is it!

    The 2 highlighted parts are what is so important!

    It also blows a huge hole in the Arts Eats Beats argument that the entire festival is a PFZ due to this statute!
    Last edited by autosurgeon; 07-29-2010 at 01:14 AM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  14. #14
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Yep that is it!

    The 2 highlighted parts are what is so important!

    It also blows a huge hole in the Arts Eats Beats argument that the entire festival is a PFZ due to this statute!
    Perhaps...I am working right now on that.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  15. #15
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Well as we know this law like another we know may not mean what it says

    Let me know what your research turns up. I am spending a bit of time every day on this and several other statutes as well.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    thanks

    thanks guys you have been a great help, ok from what i got out of all this is that i will be fine walking the mackinaw bridge while ocing, and i will be fine ocing around the campgrounds as long as i dont go into the store while ocing, obviusly im fine walking around town. thank god for this web site
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
    --George Washington

    first rule of open carry, know your laws. second rule of open carry, never ask permission. third rule of open carry, rule number one supersedes rule number two

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    This will be my second year walking the mighty mac, and I plan to OC.

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    Thumbs up

    hey i hope to see you up there i stay at teepee campground where do you stay if you dont mind me asking
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
    --George Washington

    first rule of open carry, know your laws. second rule of open carry, never ask permission. third rule of open carry, rule number one supersedes rule number two

  19. #19
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    last time we stayed in a hotel in grayling. This year we are staying in gaylord. I am going up there with my wife and in-laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    last time we stayed in a hotel in grayling. This year we are staying in gaylord. I am going up there with my wife and in-laws.
    oh i see you dont stay in town, well not that i can blame you it does get really crowded up there, we have to reserve our campsite the year before, we get the same one every year.

    well maybe ill still see you up there, ill be the other guy ocing

    oh and by the way i carry a nickle plated colt lawman, so if you see one in mackinaw chances are its attached to my hip, so feel free to say hi
    Last edited by oohrahboy; 07-31-2010 at 11:05 PM.
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
    --George Washington

    first rule of open carry, know your laws. second rule of open carry, never ask permission. third rule of open carry, rule number one supersedes rule number two

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Yep that is it!

    The 2 highlighted parts are what is so important!

    It also blows a huge hole in the Arts Eats Beats argument that the entire festival is a PFZ due to this statute!
    I believe it is their contention that "the fenced in area"(the entire festival) would meet the definition of "enclosure on real estate". Just sayin'.

  22. #22
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    I believe it is their contention that "the fenced in area"(the entire festival) would meet the definition of "enclosure on real estate". Just sayin'.
    Except that they cannot do that unless they are going to only allow those 21 and over in.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Except that they cannot do that unless they are going to only allow those 21 and over in.
    I'm not 100% sure that is the case, but if someone finds something to that effect, please share. The law talks about "possession" by minors for licensees and to that end they often do prohibit minors after a certain hour or some other restriction. It is clear though that those with a CPL should be ok to carry, oc or cc. I find it very hard to believe that alcohol sales would be a primary source of income for an organization that gets a lot of donations in the form of tangible assets AND charges $3.00 to get in.

    What is really sort of karmic about the whole ABE issue is that by fighting and arguing with us, the commission and ABE executives have guaranteed that there could possibly be a larger number of OC people, and probably just everyday people carrying firearms, in attendance than there would have been if the commission would have quickly and quietly removed the firearm prohibition from the contract. Now they are very likely that they will get individuals showing up who would never have considered even going to this event. The incessant need for our "representatives" to prove that one is "right" despite evidence to the contrary often is the precursor to REALLY getting what they don't want.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  24. #24
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I'm not 100% sure that is the case, but if someone finds something to that effect, please share. The law talks about "possession" by minors for licensees and to that end they often do prohibit minors after a certain hour or some other restriction. It is clear though that those with a CPL should be ok to carry, oc or cc. I find it very hard to believe that alcohol sales would be a primary source of income for an organization that gets a lot of donations in the form of tangible assets AND charges $3.00 to get in.

    What is really sort of karmic about the whole ABE issue is that by fighting and arguing with us, the commission and ABE executives have guaranteed that there could possibly be a larger number of OC people, and probably just everyday people carrying firearms, in attendance than there would have been if the commission would have quickly and quietly removed the firearm prohibition from the contract. Now they are very likely that they will get individuals showing up who would never have considered even going to this event. The incessant need for our "representatives" to prove that one is "right" despite evidence to the contrary often is the precursor to REALLY getting what they don't want.
    Minors under 17 as far as I can find - MCL 750.141: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-141

    750.141 Presence of minor under 17 in places where liquor is sold, given away, or furnished; attendance of minors at dances.

    A minor child under 17 years of age shall not be permitted to remain in a dance hall, saloon, barroom or any place where spirituous or intoxicating liquor, wine or beer, or any beverage, liquor or liquors containing spirituous or intoxicating liquor, beer or malt liquor is sold, given away or furnished for a beverage, unless the minor is accompanied by parent or guardian. A proprietor, keeper or manager of any such place who permits a minor child to remain in any such place, and a person who encourages or induces in any way the minor child to enter the place or to remain therein shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor. This section shall not prevent a township, village or city from establishing, by ordinance, regulations more stringent than the provisions of this act relative to the attendance of a minor at theaters, movie houses, bowling or billiard halls and dance halls. This section shall not prevent a township, village or city from establishing, by ordinance, regulations permitting the attendance of minor children at dances where no spirituous or intoxicating liquor, beer or malt liquor is sold, given away or consumed in the dance area.

  25. #25
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    Bringing the thread back on topic...OC on the Mighty Mac and enjoy the views! I just got back form a week up there, I think the Mackinac Bridge is one of the best parts of Michigan. One hell of a sight. I OC'd at the Mackinaw Mill Creek campground a bit, they did not have a policy against firearm carry. I asked when I checked in. I didn't want to get kicked out, trying to find another campground would have been impossible without a reservation.
    Last edited by scot623; 08-02-2010 at 08:33 PM.

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