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Thread: Pro-Gun Activists Plan to Walk the Pier Despite Possible Arrest

  1. #1
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Pro-Gun Activists Plan to Walk the Pier Despite Possible Arrest

    Harley Green and his South Bay Open Carry organization intend to gather Aug. 7 with their handguns, risking a violation of the law.

    http://redondobeach.patch.com/articl...-from-the-city

    Do you know the law? I will look into this myself and I will be at this meet up.

    Comments?

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    "He [Green] asked whether or not he could walk on the pier," Leonardi said. "And I'm being absolutely candid with you, I don't know the answer to that question and can't give it to him. I need the city attorney to tell us what's parkland and what's not parkland."

    It always gives me a bittersweet feeling when I realize that the knuckleheads 'running the show' are completely incompetent.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    Harley Green and his South Bay Open Carry organization intend to gather Aug. 7 with their handguns, risking a violation of the law.

    http://redondobeach.patch.com/articl...-from-the-city

    Do you know the law? I will look into this myself and I will be at this meet up.

    Comments?
    You might think about carrying sterile....no ID
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member lotar4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    Harley Green and his South Bay Open Carry organization intend to gather Aug. 7 with their handguns, risking a violation of the law.

    http://redondobeach.patch.com/articl...-from-the-city

    Do you know the law? I will look into this myself and I will be at this meet up.

    Comments?
    I myself am going to try to be at this meet up. It's my fathers b-day and I will probably be out on the boat with family but if not, I will definitely attend.

    From the (Hermosa) map on southbayopencarry.org, it shows the actual pier colored as part of parks/beaches which if it's a city park, etc., would be off limits to OC.

    See map:
    http://www.hermosabch.org/police/doc...undSchools.pdf

    Is this the case for Redondo? I don't know. I will try to dig a bit and find out.
    The more we sweat in times of peace, the less we bleed in times of war.

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    Screw them. Check the law, but I think it is legal to get a fishing permit and carry concealed while fishing. Sure, it isn't OC but it does throw them for a loop.

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    Nate, you do not need a fishing license to fish from public piers or docks in California.

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    Nate, you do not need a fishing license to fish from public piers or docks in California.
    True but the PC he's referring to here is an exemption for "LICENSED fishermen and hunters...."

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    True but the PC he's referring to here is an exemption for "LICENSED fishermen and hunters...."
    What's the PC?

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sons of Liberty View Post
    What's the PC?
    12027(g) I believe. It's in a listing of exemptions to 12025.

    12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
    following:
    (g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
    other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
    engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
    unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
    expedition.
    Last edited by Mike Hunt; 07-29-2010 at 10:06 PM.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    For that you will need some fishing tackle
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    12027(g) I believe. It's in a listing of exemptions to 12025.

    12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
    following:
    (g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
    other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
    engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
    unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
    expedition.
    Remember, this is an exemption to 12025 only, not 12031. Under this exemption you still cannot carry it loaded, you can only carry it concealed.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
    Remember, this is an exemption to 12025 only, not 12031. Under this exemption you still cannot carry it loaded, you can only carry it concealed.
    Good point. This is a common misunderstanding which I've seen thrown around on here and over at Calguns.

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    Redondo Pier Shopping Center

    The Redondo city website has two zoning maps, both of them label the entire pier shopping center
    as "Coastal Commercial" Neither of them label it as a park, parkland or open area. The web version
    of the maps come complete with the official disclaimer in that they are not necessarily the be all end all
    if there happen to be a legal dispute of some nature. It was recommended on the site that for legal
    purposes an official copy be obtained. I did just that today at City Hall (415 Diamond st. Redondo Beach)
    It is in with the police station at the corner of P.C.H. and Diamond St. I forgot, the city planning desk has
    these for $2.00, they or at door "E" in city hall.

    I think that would be enough to discredit anyones claim that the area were a park. I found no code
    prohibiting open carry in a "Coastal Commercial" zone. Furthermore there is no posted prohibition of
    open carry at the shopping center, I will be there with bells on.

    DEFENSOR

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEFENSOR View Post
    The Redondo city website has two zoning maps, both of them label the entire pier shopping center
    as "Coastal Commercial" Neither of them label it as a park, parkland or open area. The web version
    of the maps come complete with the official disclaimer in that they are not necessarily the be all end all
    if there happen to be a legal dispute of some nature. It was recommended on the site that for legal
    purposes an official copy be obtained. I did just that today at City Hall (415 Diamond st. Redondo Beach)
    It is in with the police station at the corner of P.C.H. and Diamond St. I forgot, the city planning desk has
    these for $2.00, they or at door "E" in city hall.

    I think that would be enough to discredit anyones claim that the area were a park. I found no code
    prohibiting open carry in a "Coastal Commercial" zone. Furthermore there is no posted prohibition of
    open carry at the shopping center, I will be there with bells on.

    DEFENSOR
    Way to nail down the info, Defensor!

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    Did you get the pamphlet defensor?
    What did it say?

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    Regular Member lotar4life's Avatar
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    The only thing I can see according to Google maps that is an area of possible avoidance would be Veterans Park to the immediate South of the Pier area. The closest K-12 school is approx. 1500-2000 feet away from the pier.

    All things standing, it looks fine to OC on that pier so far as I can tell.
    The more we sweat in times of peace, the less we bleed in times of war.

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    Pamphlet ?

    Quote Originally Posted by heliopolissolutions View Post
    Did you get the pamphlet defensor?
    What did it say?
    I'm always on the lookout for some good literature but I don't think Redondo Beach has a pamphlet that
    applies to open carry. What am I missing ?

  18. #18
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    August 7th, Redondo Pier Open Holster Carry

    http://www.southbayopencarry.org/201...er-open-carry/

    UPDATE – Open Holster Only
    The city of Redondo Beach has informed us that they will be considering the pier to be park land. This means that carrying firearms on the pier outside of commercial areas is prohibited. For this event please plan on bringing your empty holster in lieu of this recent change of events. We will still be spreading our message and with even more purpose. Looking at recent crime reports, since the passage of their ordinance banning firearms in parks aggravated assault instances have dramatically increased, despite overall crime decreasing. Clearly gun control does nothing but make victims out of innocent civilians by stripping them of their right to defend themselves in public.
    It is sad that the city could not provide a simple answer to this question weeks ago when first asked. They have changed their position this week from stating the pier is not a park, to claiming that it is a park. Looks like not all cities’ police departments can be as professional and responsible as Hermosa Beach’s!
    Despite the cities claim that it is park land there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I will provide it here for your own purposes and the record:
    1) The police departments crime website does not list the pier as a park:
    http://www.southbayopencarry.org/wp-...erpdreport.pdf
    2) The park and rec page does not list the pier as a park:
    http://www.redondo.org/depts/public_...ks/default.asp
    3) The Redondo zoning map lists the pier as commercial, not park:
    http://www.southbayopencarry.org/wp-...ndo-zoning.pdf
    4) If the pier was a park why do they have duplicate municipal codes banning dogs and skateboarding, if it was a park the park codes would apply:
    http://www.qcode.us/codes/redondobea...ll=1&frames=on
    5) Their own municipal code clearly defines the pier as a commercial business district:
    http://www.qcode.us/codes/redondobea...ll=1&frames=on
    6) The police (Lt. Wrightsman) admit that open carry in commercial space is not prohibited:
    “Therefore, carrying a firearm on the Pier (other than on commercial space and in parking space) would be a violation of Redondo Beach Municipal Code Section 4-35.20(a). ”
    7) John, in an email I have, from Redondo Recreation & Community Services is not aware of the pier being a park:
    “Not that I am aware –John”
    8 ) Verbal statements from city attorneys stating that the pier is not considered a park, witnesses willing to provide sworn affidavits.
    9) Cities can not preempt California State law. State law does not prohibit open carrying in municipal parks even if the pier really is a park.
    10) Many believe the McDonald USC decision affirms citizens rights to bear arms in public, overturning any local and state restrictions.

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    Yar, walk the plant.

    DEFENSOR: I meant the info on what the city itself had to say regarding zoning, I think you'd mentioned they had some literature on it.

    Ryan: Think they've got the stones to book 50 men on a muni code that doesn't apply to the area?

  20. #20
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    The city of Redondo Beach has informed us that they will be considering the pier to be park land.
    How convenient that is. Because they disagree with the practice, they will redefine the pier as a park to suit their desires. So how long does Redondo Beach intend on being a fiefdom?
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Fig 1.1: Modern day Redondo Beach
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    If I lived a little closer, I would call the cops bluff. However, you guys are on your own. Don't listen to me.

    Is this where you are meeting?
    Czuleger Park (Plaza Park) Foot of Diamond St. Scenic Walkway to International Boardwalk and Pier.
    Last edited by Gundude; 08-07-2010 at 01:30 AM.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    I for one would love to see some mass civil disobedience going on, but California is not really the venue for that. Our criminal "justice" system is not very forgiving, nor easy to navigate. It is much easier to engage in such things in other states that are not so Stalinist. You will be thrown into the gulag and made an example of. Probably best to take caution.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    How convenient that is. Because they disagree with the practice, they will redefine the pier as a park to suit their desires. So how long does Redondo Beach intend on being a fiefdom?
    I am debating going tomorrow or not I don't feel like carrying an empty gun holster but have met the guy organizing the event and respect his wishes. I also do not need to go to jail. Is it jail time for violation? or just a ticket. would i be on my own? We shall see.

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    Regular Member lotar4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    I am debating going tomorrow or not I don't feel like carrying an empty gun holster but have met the guy organizing the event and respect his wishes. I also do not need to go to jail. Is it jail time for violation? or just a ticket. would i be on my own? We shall see.
    I just responded to the SBOC email newsletter with an idea.

    I train regularly in CQC and among my training tools is a Blackhawk G17 Demonstrator:
    http://www.blackhawk.com/Catalog/Dis...Title=Demo Gun

    I have the gray one and it clicks into my Glock 20 Blackhawk CQC holster with no problems! Aside from the lighter gray color, it looks just like the real deal.

    If anyone has one, it would be a great visual impact without the risk given all the boloney surrounding this particular event.

    Just a thought.

    Edit: I won't be there unfortunately tomorrow as I told my dad I would take my dad out on my boat for his birthday. If someone (who holsters a Glock) wants to borrow mine, I will be in San Pedro in the morning if you want to swing by and use it for the day!
    Last edited by lotar4life; 08-07-2010 at 02:19 AM.
    The more we sweat in times of peace, the less we bleed in times of war.

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