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Thread: Know-it-alls

  1. #1
    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    Know-it-alls

    So I was picking up something from Office Depot yesterday, got help finding the item I was looking for with no issues whatsoever, but when I was at the check out, this kid who couldn't have been more than 17 ask's, "Is that legal?" of course me being the smart ass that I am, I said "yes, I always pay with a credit card." he said, "no, can you carry a gun around like that?" I said ns a smart ass tone as if everyone knows it's perfectly fine to carry, "Of course it is. How do you carry yours." he then said "don't you worry that someone is going to take your gun from you?" Now I'm thinking to myself, how can I explain this in tems this idiot will understand. so I asked "do you see the fallacy of attempting to take a firearm from an armed person." to that he said "well yeah, but what if he has a gun?" I said then "at least he came properly prepared."

    Now at his point I'm thinking "just ring me up so I can go, I'm really busy today." when this KID says, I don't think you realize how easy it is to take someones gun away. So now I'm getting really annoyed at this kid and ask him, "Are you speaking from your extensive practical experience with disarmament techniques." Just when he was about to smart off to me, I interrupted and said, "look, ring me up I'm very busy and need to go."

    Later that day I decided to call the manager because I was really annoyed at this kid, and the manager was quite upset. Not that I carried a firearm into his store, but that this KID had the balls to pick an argument with me when his job is to ring people up. On the phone I over heard him say as he asked me to hold on a second, "hey! get [kid] in the office right now, I need to set him straight on some things." Then the manager told me that I should feel free to come shop again, he supports my right to be armed and said emphatically, "this will not happen again."

    reminded me of the time some kid at The Gun Store insisted that because there was no law that said I was allowed to open carry that it was therefore illegal. In that case I said "there is no law that says you can have that hair cut, so it must be illegal." I think I hurt his pride because he seemed awfully proud of that hair cut even though it made him look like a ******.
    Last edited by Nevada carrier; 07-29-2010 at 03:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member flagellum's Avatar
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    I saw this going sour as I read with it, but it seems like it went alright from an OC perspective. I cannot say because I was not there, but It seems like the kid may have just been very curious. It's sad that he ended up getting punished for his inquisitveness, based upon the dialog it did not seem that he meant to be offensive.
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudjack View Post
    Some of the kids on this very forum are like that kid in the store, only the reverse. They walk onto private property and start an argument with the owner or the duly appointed representatives of the owner of the property about how their rights are being violated when asked to leave.

    Your rights are in no way being violated. You are on private property and you can follow their rules for entering their property -- or you'd best just get the hell out of there.

    Of all people, the people on this board should understand and respect property rights without question and be glad about it.
    Easy there TROLL, get back under your bridge.

    This had NOTHING to do with property rights. It had to do with an arrogant know-it-all cashier.
    First he was unsure as to whether OC was illegal, and then
    HE(the cashier) became combative with Nevada Carrier by telling him how "Easy" it is to disarm someone.

    The cashier probably saw one too many Action films and thought real life is just like Hollywood.

    I personally wouldn't have handled the situation the way Nevada Carrier did, but saying this is a property rights issue when ABSOLUTELY NONE was brought up is a bit trollish.

  4. #4
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    To the OP. I enjoyed reading this one this morning with coffee. As always I enjoy your sense humor. Now to the point, the "kid" was okay to ask a question, but if he's going to carry on small talk, at least try to multi-task and get customers moving. I like to educate people when they ask questions, but there is a point when it becomes annoying and especially if he is an employee he needs to stay on task to do his job with a smile!

    Glad the manager straightened him out!

  5. #5
    28kfps
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    The kid saying (I don't think you realize how easy it is to take someone’s gun away) is a confrontational statement not a statement or question of curiosity. He is suggesting that he is more knowledgeable than someone older than he and open carrying a firearm. If he knew of tactics or were trained in taking a holstered gun away, it would seem to me he would need to have good knowledge of retention type holsters. This would lead me to believe a person with knowledge of taking a holstered firearm would first ask is that a retention type holster and take the conversation from there. It would appear to me he was trying to be a know it all. I like the “I always use a credit card” a great reply, made him ask a direct question. I like the manager’s reply and I believe the kid needed some couching. Hope that is all that happened to him. I do not believe it was something to be fired over. I also agree with trying to set a good impression while open carrying and trying do our part to make the public more comfortable with seeing an open carried firearm. We do want to be carefully with our communication tactics. Not being there no way at least for me to know if it was what I would call good or bad tactic. I learn from all posts if I agree with them or not. I am glad Nevada carrier shared it. Some of the better and more informative posts are the ones that create heated debates. However sometimes the next thing that happens one gets mad and quits posting and we lose another opinion and source of information. Young, old and the group I belong to, good looking, smart and charming (At least that is what my wife says. After 33 years, she should know.) keep posting those questions and confrontations.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 07-31-2010 at 02:20 AM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    I saw this going sour as I read with it, but it seems like it went alright from an OC perspective. I cannot say because I was not there, but It seems like the kid may have just been very curious. It's sad that he ended up getting punished for his inquisitveness, based upon the dialog it did not seem that he meant to be offensive.
    I agree, but The one thing I hope he learns from this is that you don't pick an argument with a customer and you definitely don't pick an argument unless you are prepared to back it up with facts, not supposition. I doubt he got fired; a stern talking to is all I believe resulted from this. For all we know he may have a reputation from being a know-it-all and this may have been a breaking point for his boss. We've all worked around kids, some tend to be pretty cocky and arrogant, at some point we learned that there are better ways to conduct ourselves.

    I was all for positive feed back, but when a punk kid tries to make me think he may attempt to take my firearm I have to put my guard up. He didn't say he would but he wanted me to believe that he could if he wanted to. This can be considered a veiled threat. If all he wanted to know was the legality of open carry, things would have ended much differently, and I would have been happy with that, but he wanted to be antagonistic and I won't take that from anyone, especially someone who is paid to provide me with customer service.

    Another thing is credibility. When someone is trying to argue their position, one of the first thing to consider is their credibility. As I leaned in basic communications 101, two ways to defeat someone's argument is to attack their credibility (this is not the same as attacking their character, that would be argumentum ad hominem), and expose the fallacies in their argument; In this case, I did both.

    His credibility: poor. pretty good odds that a 17 year old kid does not have the practical experience required to testify to the difficulty of disarming an armed person by force.

    his fallacy: an unarmed person attempting to attack and disarm an armed man is illogical and extremely unlikely.

    Please try to learn at least these two things from this post if nothing else. You don't have to like the way I handled it, but you can't really say I was out of line either.
    Last edited by Nevada carrier; 07-31-2010 at 09:54 AM.

  7. #7
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    What if the cashier had said something about how heart disease is a real killer and that the customer should lose a few pounds for safety?

  8. #8
    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    What if the cashier had said something about how heart disease is a real killer and that the customer should lose a few pounds for safety?
    There is enough data and information about heart disease that anyone capable of studying on the subject could research and reference facts to be credible enough to make a logically sound statement, though again, I doubt it would be the cashiers place to say such a thing. The customer came to make a purchase not get a lecture.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    His credibility: poor. pretty good odds that a 17 year old kid does not have the practical experience required to testify to the difficulty of disarming an armed person by force.
    Although it is improbable, At 17 he might already have a decade of snatching cops guns under his belt as a pastime.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 07-31-2010 at 01:04 PM.

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