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Thread: Chesapeake to pay tipsters for leads on illegal guns and related poll

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Chesapeake to pay tipsters for leads on illegal guns and related poll

    Chesapeake to pay tipsters for leads on illegal guns
    By Kristin Davis
    The Virginian-Pilot
    © July 30, 2010
    CHESAPEAKE
    Gun-buyback programs aim to get firearms away from criminals but tend to attract legal guns. Police hope to get exactly what they're looking for later this summer by tempting tipsters instead.
    A new program will trade $100 cash for information about illegal guns.
    "There are certain people who create a lot of problems for us," said Chesapeake Police Chief Kelvin Wright. Those include gun-toting felons and teens as well as people who have been ruled mentally incompetent or who lack a permit for a concealed weapon.
    A $10,000 Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant will fund the program, which will work much like Crime Line.
    Callers are promised anonymity, said Lt. T.M. Foster, and the goal is to use the same number - 1-888-Lock-U-Up - to report illegal guns.
    The program will target the Second Precinct in South Norfolk, where most of the city's gun violence occurs, Wright said.
    "That's where we hope to flood the area with fliers," said Foster, who was tasked with coordinating the program.
    He based it on a similar initiative in Miami called the Gun Bounty Program, which was launched through that area's Crime Stoppers and offers up to $1,000 for tips that lead to arrests.
    The Chesapeake program is the third in recent years aimed at recovering illegal guns.
    Wright commissioned the Illegal Firearm Interdiction Program pin earlier this year to recognize officers adept at seizing the weapons. He awarded four in March.
    The police department hosted a gun buyback in December 2008. Residents handed over 309 firearms.
    "Gun buybacks work," Wright said, "but not as well as you would hope."
    Critics say such efforts generally attract law-abiding citizens; that the programs are too costly; and that some people just use the money toward better guns. Chesapeake police tried to limit that by accepting handguns only and offering $100 gift cards rather than cash.
    Police confiscated more than 150 illegal guns in 2009, according to department statistics
    "We've seen the damage guns in the hands of the wrong people can do," Wright said, noting the shooting death of a 16-year-old Great Bridge High School student a week ago.
    Police charged a 15-year-old with involuntary manslaughter in the case.
    Kristin Davis, (757) 222-5555, kristin.davis@pilotonline.com

    Related Poll: http://hamptonroads.com/polls/do-you...-guns?cid=rltd
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    "People who create a lot of problems ... those who lack a concealed handgun permit"

    Does Chief Wright believe the only legal way to carry a handgun is concealed, or does he just plain hate the idea that some choose not to get a permit and OC only... so he doesn't acknowledge it? Or is it just poor word choice and not enough clarification on his part?

    Has there ever been any sort of study done on occurences of gun crimes in years or months without gun buybacks as opposed to those with them... or is all the "oh they work" hooplah just a bunch of speculation? First the article says they don't work in that they get mostly legal guns, then turns around with a quote of "hurrr durrrr they works good" at the end.

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    It seems to go way over the heads of the media and these types of LEOs that there is an extremely select few guns that are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virginia (namely "Street Sweeper" and "Striker 12" shotguns). Everything else would fall under the category of illegally possessed firearms. The media and curtain members of the law enforcement community continue to spread the idea that the guns are in and of themselfs illegal, rather than focusing on the fact that criminals, acting in a criminal manner, are illegally obtaining firearms.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I lived in Chesapeake for many years, so I can say with certainty that the Chief Wright is a gun grabber. One of the first things he did was start a "gun buyback". Now he wants to turn everybody into gun snitches.

    Have no fear though, Chesapeake Detectives will find the right catch phrases and make scary assumptions in order to get regular search warrants Chesapeake PD will then use their SWAT Team to conduct a night time raid on LACs.

    There is no respect for the Rule of Law there. I saw it many, many times. I could not tolerate it any more so I moved.

    Yes it sounds great, fight illegal guns, but in reality it is another pretext to try and dissuade the black population of South Norfolk from exercising a fundamental right.

    Shame on the Chief of Police.

    Bash me now if you want, but in a year I will be saying "I told you so"
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    {wondering if Danbus would like to accompany me on a stroll through downtown Chesapeake and see the sights...}

    We should ask PeterNap along to document the event and include a well-rounded group of folks in the mix: My favorite philosopher, scholar and restaurant critic from Gloucester (Pagan) should represent the northern Tidewater area. Some of our other experienced bretheren from the Northern Territories like Grapeshot and his fellow OCDO Oracle Members would be very welcome.

    User should probably be put on retainer while PVC and the rest of the VCDL leadership informed about which jail we're likely to tour at the conclusion of our Walkabout.

    It would be difficult to count the number of laws the City of Chesapeake is likely to break. It makes my head spin to even think about...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Ha, unless I missed something I haven't heard from Danbus in a while here. I think he's keeping it on the DL these days.

    I saw this story when it aired on the news (the OP's story is a newspaper, not TV). The wording was a little different live. I heard them infer that only people with CHPs were legal to possess/carry firearms. Seems they have modified that statement for posterity.
    Last edited by paramedic70002; 07-31-2010 at 10:04 AM.
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...y-back-program

    Ah, here it is.

    The program will target teens, felons, and others who do not have permits for concealed weapons.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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    hopefully anyone legally possssing a gun but harassed by police over an anonymous tipster call will sue for damages and injunctive relief.

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    Ok, not living in the Commonwealth of Virginia--but rather in Tennessee, I am somewhat removed from this whole thing. That said, I'm going to ask the questions that no one else has.

    The chief speaks of the mentally incompetent, felons and those lacking a CCW permit as those"who create a lot of problems for us" SO my question is--since OC in Virginia without a permit is LEGAL--how will that help the police target felons, the mentally incompetent and those lacking a CCW--does he intend on using these "tips" as a pretext for stopping OC'ers?

    Also, and this is one I have been meaning to ask for sometime--if the police receive a call about an OC'er, or more likely a call about a MWAG and show up and all you are doing is OC'ing, with no other obvious signs indicating that you have, are or are about to commit a crime--does that give the police the grounds to lawfully detain you, demand ID from you and do a "status check" on you under the guise of "we received a call, so we have to follow up"?

    Personally I would say that since OC is legal w/o a permit, then the police would have no grounds upon which to demand ID, or even detain you merely for OC...but what say ye who live over there and who have experienced this first hand?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    --does he intend on using these "tips" as a pretext for stopping OC'ers?

    --does that give the police the grounds to lawfully detain you, demand ID from you and do a "status check" on you under the guise of "we received a call, so we have to follow up"?

    Personally I would say that since OC is legal w/o a permit, then the police would have no grounds upon which to demand ID, or even detain you merely for OC...but what say ye who live over there and who have experienced this first hand?
    That's the way it is or should be.
    all police think they have the right to ask for ID and the fact is...they do. But ask only, not demand or threaten.

    The problem is many people don't know how to say no. They hint at it but for whatever reason, they don't say NO!

    Grapeshop and a few others have seen video's of me saying no and there isn't any question about what I mean. I've seen other, even experienced OC'ers try to argue or reason when they should be saying "I said no damnit...what eord are you hung up on".

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I lived in Chesapeake for many years, so I can say with certainty that the Chief Wright is a gun grabber. One of the first things he did was start a "gun buyback". Now he wants to turn everybody into gun snitches.

    Have no fear though, Chesapeake Detectives will find the right catch phrases and make scary assumptions in order to get regular search warrants Chesapeake PD will then use their SWAT Team to conduct a night time raid on LACs.

    There is no respect for the Rule of Law there. I saw it many, many times. I could not tolerate it any more so I moved.

    Yes it sounds great, fight illegal guns, but in reality it is another pretext to try and dissuade the black population of South Norfolk from exercising a fundamental right.

    Shame on the Chief of Police.

    Bash me now if you want, but in a year I will be saying "I told you so"
    We moved out of Arlington, VA in 1998 for several reasons, one of which was something the new police chief had said. He wanted the authority to be able to inspect homes in which there were class 3 weapons to make sure they were stored correctly. As I said, there were other reasons for leaving that county, but this was certainly one of them.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    snip: Those include gun-toting. . . teens. . .
    Again, it is perfectly legal for many "teens" in Virginia to carry firearms on their persons. If this forum is any meassure, it would seem that the number of "teens" legally carry in Virginia is steadily on the rise. I personally did it for two years (ages 18-19), and I was never once stopped for carrying.

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    Regular Member RussP's Avatar
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    Sounds like a witch hunt for OCers...
    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    "Gun buybacks work," Wright said, "but not as well as you would hope."
    Appears his definition of "work" is that they get one or more guns turned in. He doesn't appear really to care whether they're guns that would have ever been used nefariously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's the way it is or should be.
    all police think they have the right to ask for ID and the fact is...they do. But ask only, not demand or threaten.

    The problem is many people don't know how to say no. They hint at it but for whatever reason, they don't say NO!

    Grapeshop and a few others have seen video's of me saying no and there isn't any question about what I mean. I've seen other, even experienced OC'ers try to argue or reason when they should be saying "I said no damnit...what eord are you hung up on".

    Do you have any videos on youtube of encounters? All I ever see of youtube OC encounters are those in NH by the free staters.

    Here in TN you cannot say no when they want to check your ID because you are carrying a gun--Tenn. Code Annotated makes possession of a firearm "with the intent to go armed" a crime in Tennessee while providing for a number of "defenses"--with the Handgun carry permit being one such "defense" to the violation of T.C.A 39-17-1307. It is a tragedy, it really is, but that is what our wonderful legislature decided to do--and the people here worship their permit system, they really do--and dare you to OC and you are treated like a pariah by the CCW crowd.
    Last edited by suntzu; 07-31-2010 at 07:27 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Do you have any videos on youtube of encounters? All I ever see of youtube OC encounters are those in NH by the free staters.

    Here in TN you cannot say no when they want to check your ID because you are carrying a gun--Tenn. Code Annotated makes possession of a firearm "with the intent to go armed" a crime in Tennessee while providing for a number of "defenses"--with the Handgun carry permit being one such "defense" to the violation of T.C.A 39-17-1307. It is a tragedy, it really is, but that is what our wonderful legislature decided to do--and the people here worship their permit system, they really do--and dare you to OC and you are treated like a pariah by the CCW crowd.
    I don't use Youtube much. I have a paid account with Vimeo. A lot of my video's are longer than ten minutes and the HD Codecs are better on Vimeo.

    To answer your question, no I don't. I don't have many encounters to start with, when I do they are short because I don't do a lot of dialog. No is generally it.

    When I'm filming other OC'ers, you'd be amazed how polite people get when there's a 4oo mm lens and an H4n recorder with quad mic's, pointed at them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    hopefully anyone legally possssing a gun but harassed by police over an anonymous tipster call will sue for damages and injunctive relief.
    +1 Anonymous tips about guns is exactly the subject of Florida vs JL:

    ...An accurate description of a subject's readily observable location and appearance is of course reliable in this limited sense: It will help the police correctly identify the person whom the tipster means to accuse. Such a tip, however, does not show that the tipster has knowledge of concealed criminal activity. The reasonable suspicion here at issue requires that a tip be reliable in its assertion of illegality, not just in its tendency to identify a determinate person...

    ...A second major argument advanced by Florida and the United States as amicus is, in essence, that the standard Terry analysis should be modified to license a "firearm exception." Under such an exception, a tip alleging an illegal gun would justify a stop and frisk even if the accusation would fail standard pre-search reliability testing. We decline to adopt this position...

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/htm...9_0266_ZO.html

    Of course, there is much more to the law about informants, idicia of reliability, probable cause, and warrants, and so forth. However, maybe one or two of you all in that area can write a ridiculing Letter to the Editor pointing out that the security forces' program does not seem to take any of the case law into account.

    Besides just an anonymous tip, they are offering to pay for the tip, and advertising the offer. So, maybe another angle to this is the idea that taxpayers are going to be paying money for tips that cannot be used.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    It seems to go way over the heads of the media and these types of LEOs that there is an extremely select few guns that are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virginia (namely "Street Sweeper" and "Striker 12" shotguns). Everything else would fall under the category of illegally possessed firearms. The media and curtain members of the law enforcement community continue to spread the idea that the guns are in and of themselfs illegal, rather than focusing on the fact that criminals, acting in a criminal manner, are illegally obtaining firearms.
    Nice point. Agreed. We must point the criminal behavior from the gun and from gun owners to the specific individual and that individuals behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post

    When I'm filming other OC'ers, you'd be amazed how polite people get when there's a 4oo mm lens and an H4n recorder with quad mic's, pointed at them
    I'd say it probably makes them think twice about being impolite or trying to mistreat you--knowing that there is a nice video of them mistreating a citizen and how easy it is for it to turn up on the 6pm news and on youtube....the video also makes for nice evidence to support allegations of wrong doing--and for evidence in lawsuits against the individual officers and their departments....So yes I can imagine how nice an officer or group of officers get when a camera is pointed at them...

    but more specifically--knowing all of this--I am still amazed myself by it

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I don't use Youtube much. I have a paid account with Vimeo. A lot of my video's are longer than ten minutes and the HD Codecs are better on Vimeo.

    To answer your question, no I don't. I don't have many encounters to start with, when I do they are short because I don't do a lot of dialog. No is generally it.

    When I'm filming other OC'ers, you'd be amazed how polite people get when there's a 4oo mm lens and an H4n recorder with quad mic's, pointed at them
    I read where YT has gone to a 15 minute limit.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I read where YT has gone to a 15 minute limit.
    They may have, I don't keep up with them.
    I have had some documentary's up that were an hour and a half though.

    I think the last thing I put on You tube was Joe Morrissey insulting the Lady from VCDL at a committee meeting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    {wondering if Danbus would like to accompany me on a stroll through downtown Chesapeake and see the sights...}

    We should ask PeterNap along to document the event and include a well-rounded group of folks in the mix: My favorite philosopher, scholar and restaurant critic from Gloucester (Pagan) should represent the northern Tidewater area. Some of our other experienced bretheren from the Northern Territories like Grapeshot and his fellow OCDO Oracle Members would be very welcome.

    User should probably be put on retainer while PVC and the rest of the VCDL leadership informed about which jail we're likely to tour at the conclusion of our Walkabout.

    It would be difficult to count the number of laws the City of Chesapeake is likely to break. It makes my head spin to even think about...
    If this little walk-about gets off the ground, please let folks know when. I'd be interested in joining in.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    It seems to go way over the heads of the media and these types of LEOs that there is an extremely select few guns that are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virginia (namely "Street Sweeper" and "Striker 12" shotguns). .
    that is a question i have been asking for years. since they put up those billboards with VAHP on them. what the hello, is an "illegal" gun? Have to agree with VApatiot, a gun can be illegal possessed, maybe that's what they mean when they say " it's evil"

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    that is a question i have been asking for years. since they put up those billboards with VAHP on them. what the hello, is an "illegal" gun? Have to agree with VApatiot, a gun can be illegal possessed, maybe that's what they mean when they say " it's evil"
    nah, I bet it's like the phony "gun show loophole" "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines"

    made up BS terms to fool the public into believing it. Say it enough and it becomes truth, as the saying goes.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    EMail the Chesapeake Chief of Police

    My eMail:

    Dear Police Chief Wright,
    A quote in a Friday article in the Virginia Pilot about your so called gun bounty program is of great concern to me.

    You are quoted as saying “There are certain people who create a lot of problems for us, Those include gun toting felons and teens as well as people who have been ruled mentally incompetent or who lack a permit for a concealed weapon.”

    Shame on you. Your mischaracterization of those who carry a firearm without a permit as creating a lot of trouble is vile and offensive. The right to carry a firearm in Virginia is a civil right enshrined in both the US and Virginia Constitutions. Associating this legal activity with felons and the mentally ill is disgraceful.

    It is also obvious that this program is meant to cause intimidation in the largest African-American community in Chesapeake, via the emphasis in South Norfolk.

    The mis-characterization of lawful activity and the targeting of African Americans will have a chilling effect upon the civil rights of law abiding citizens. Thank you Chief for single handedly bringing Jim Crow back to Chesapeake.
    _________________
    If you want to let hi know how you feel here is his eMail address:
    officeofthechief@chesapeakepolice.com
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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