Chesapeake to pay tipsters for leads on illegal guns and related poll

paramedic70002 said:

I read where YT has gone to a 15 minute limit.

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They may have, I don't keep up with them.
I have had some documentary's up that were an hour and a half though.

I think the last thing I put on You tube was Joe Morrissey insulting the Lady from VCDL at a committee meeting.

MSC 45ACP said:

{wondering if Danbus would like to accompany me on a stroll through downtown Chesapeake and see the sights...}

We should ask PeterNap along to document the event and include a well-rounded group of folks in the mix: My favorite philosopher, scholar and restaurant critic from Gloucester (Pagan) should represent the northern Tidewater area. Some of our other experienced bretheren from the Northern Territories like Grapeshot and his fellow OCDO Oracle Members would be very welcome.

User should probably be put on retainer while PVC and the rest of the VCDL leadership informed about which jail we're likely to tour at the conclusion of our Walkabout.

It would be difficult to count the number of laws the City of Chesapeake is likely to break. It makes my head spin to even think about...

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If this little walk-about gets off the ground, please let folks know when. I'd be interested in joining in.

VApatriot said:

It seems to go way over the heads of the media and these types of LEOs that there is an extremely select few guns that are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virginia (namely "Street Sweeper" and "Striker 12" shotguns). .

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that is a question i have been asking for years. since they put up those billboards with VAHP on them. what the hello, is an "illegal" gun? Have to agree with VApatiot, a gun can be illegal possessed, maybe that's what they mean when they say " it's evil"

papa bear said:

that is a question i have been asking for years. since they put up those billboards with VAHP on them. what the hello, is an "illegal" gun? Have to agree with VApatiot, a gun can be illegal possessed, maybe that's what they mean when they say " it's evil"

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nah, I bet it's like the phony "gun show loophole" "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines"

made up BS terms to fool the public into believing it. Say it enough and it becomes truth, as the saying goes.

EMail the Chesapeake Chief of Police

My eMail:

Dear Police Chief Wright,
A quote in a Friday article in the Virginia Pilot about your so called gun bounty program is of great concern to me.

You are quoted as saying “There are certain people who create a lot of problems for us, Those include gun toting felons and teens as well as people who have been ruled mentally incompetent or who lack a permit for a concealed weapon.”

Shame on you. Your mischaracterization of those who carry a firearm without a permit as creating a lot of trouble is vile and offensive. The right to carry a firearm in Virginia is a civil right enshrined in both the US and Virginia Constitutions. Associating this legal activity with felons and the mentally ill is disgraceful.

It is also obvious that this program is meant to cause intimidation in the largest African-American community in Chesapeake, via the emphasis in South Norfolk.

The mis-characterization of lawful activity and the targeting of African Americans will have a chilling effect upon the civil rights of law abiding citizens. Thank you Chief for single handedly bringing Jim Crow back to Chesapeake.
_________________
If you want to let hi know how you feel here is his eMail address:
officeofthechief@chesapeakepolice.com

Interesting

I find it interesting that the article states that they receive federal funding. I wonder if it helps pay the court cost when the City is sued for unlawful searches. The article was also carefully written to say search people outside of their homes. But if that person is still on their property, then they should be able to still conceal carry without a permit, unless I am not understanding the law correctly. That being said, I was offended by the article suggesting that people who carry concealed are thugs.

VA Big E said:

I find it interesting that the article states that they receive federal funding. I wonder if it helps pay the court cost when the City is sued for unlawful searches. The article was also carefully written to say search people outside of their homes. But if that person is still on their property, then they should be able to still conceal carry without a permit, unless I am not understanding the law correctly. That being said, I was offended by the article suggesting that people who carry concealed are thugs.

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Depends on how the 'curtilage' is defined. There are definitions of it ranging from the from door all the way to the easement of one's property.

The quote went further than that. It blatantly stated that those who open carry are just as much of a problem as felons! Practioners of a civil right are bad guys in this chief's words.

Makes me wonder why he didn't go after the reporter... after all, they were also executing their right to freedom of press.

GREAT LETTER, Thundar!

Good Job! I look forward to hearing about his response (if any).

Regards;
Mike

Don't overreact

Honestly, I didn't read the article the same as quite a few of you are, however, the article doesn't clarify what the Chief probably said. I interpreted the article to say that the PD is having issues with folks who are carrying concealed WITHOUT a permit and are out committing crimes (usually drug dealers, etc among others)...not OC'ers and those without permits in general. Its not very clearly written as that, but I do believe that is what the writer meant to say. The media could have been a lot more clear on what the Chief said. Don't overreact folks.

I do not think I am overreacting.

LRS76251 said:

Honestly, I didn't read the article the same as quite a few of you are, however, the article doesn't clarify what the Chief probably said. I interpreted the article to say that the PD is having issues with folks who are carrying concealed WITHOUT a permit and are out committing crimes (usually drug dealers, etc among others)...not OC'ers and those without permits in general. Its not very clearly written as that, but I do believe that is what the writer meant to say. The media could have been a lot more clear on what the Chief said. Don't overreact folks.

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I agree that the media should have made a better statement. However, I normally conceal carry because I am most comfortable that way, unless I am around some areas in the late evenings (anywhere down Military HWY). I feel that if I was accidentally printing and in Chesapeake that an officer would question me stating that someone complained and they need to search to see if I have a permit. I am not worried because I am legal, but I don't like being stopped for no reason.

Citizen said:

+1 Anonymous tips about guns is exactly the subject of Florida vs JL:

...An accurate description of a subject's readily observable location and appearance is of course reliable in this limited sense: It will help the police correctly identify the person whom the tipster means to accuse. Such a tip, however, does not show that the tipster has knowledge of concealed criminal activity. The reasonable suspicion here at issue requires that a tip be reliable in its assertion of illegality, not just in its tendency to identify a determinate person...

...A second major argument advanced by Florida and the United States as amicus is, in essence, that the standard Terry analysis should be modified to license a "firearm exception." Under such an exception, a tip alleging an illegal gun would justify a stop and frisk even if the accusation would fail standard pre-search reliability testing. We decline to adopt this position...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0529_0266_ZO.html

Of course, there is much more to the law about informants, idicia of reliability, probable cause, and warrants, and so forth. However, maybe one or two of you all in that area can write a ridiculing Letter to the Editor pointing out that the security forces' program does not seem to take any of the case law into account.

Besides just an anonymous tip, they are offering to pay for the tip, and advertising the offer. So, maybe another angle to this is the idea that taxpayers are going to be paying money for tips that cannot be used.

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Even though this very subject is in Florida vs JL, Alachua County Sheriff advertises the same. There are signs all over G-Ville advertising a reward for reporting anyone who has a gun. There is no requirement that it be a so-called 'illegal' gun, or any kind of criminal activity associated with the person.

I called up to report myself as a gun owner. I was told that it isn't a crime to own a gun, and that I wouldn't get a reward.

But 4 days later, knock knock at the door! Guess who! "We had a report that someone here owns guns."

This was almost a year ago. It seems that the Sheriff is a flaming Liberal with an agenda. While most of the department recognizes the law and doesn't bug people, there seems to be a certain group of "Loyalists" who go through call notes and do the political bidding of the Sheriff.

What's the point of that?

Don't expect case law, or any fiddly little thing like statute or a constitution to save you from harassment from a CLEO with an agenda. Even if it's the same State the finding was pronounced in.... If they have enough of a hardon for their party line, the law means nothing.

ixtow said:

But 4 days later, knock knock at the door! Guess who! "We had a report that someone here owns guns."

.

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I'd love to hear that conversation!

Don't be so complacent with a confirmed gun grabber.

LRS76251 said:

Honestly, I didn't read the article the same as quite a few of you are, however, the article doesn't clarify what the Chief probably said. I interpreted the article to say that the PD is having issues with folks who are carrying concealed WITHOUT a permit and are out committing crimes (usually drug dealers, etc among others)...not OC'ers and those without permits in general. Its not very clearly written as that, but I do believe that is what the writer meant to say. The media could have been a lot more clear on what the Chief said. Don't overreact folks.

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Just because you think we are paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to grab our guns.

We are not over-reacting. Our gun rights are in peril and you are being complacent.

Fact: The Chief is a gun grabber.

Fact: The Chief is diverting federal $ to flame his anti-gun agenda.

Fact: The Chief is waging his campaign in the poverty stricken part of town that has a predominantly African-American population.

I guess the issue with this whole situation is what the chief is really looking at catching? Illegal guns could mean numerous things as mentioned previously (some of which aren't much of a violation). I am always for catching felons that own or possess firearms (I know some of you don't agree), gang members with guns, and/or stolen guns. The biggest issue I have with this "illegal gun" hunt is that unreliable "tips" that may pour into the hot line. Can't tell you how many ex wives/husbands call police with false info to get back at them. I can see a lot of wasted man hours searching with no results. Why not just make a blanketed "crime stoppers" tip line, and anyone can call about any crime. Then determine what you believe to be credible and important enough to follow up on? Given the budgets of most departments right now, I am amazed they are wasting it on such a program.

This is like Project Gestapo all over again.

Project Gestapo:

Project Gestapo
by Ari Armstrong, March 7, 2000
http://www.co-freedom.com

Wayne LaPierre wants to send non-violent gun owners who arm themselves for self-defense to prison if they violate arbitrary, unconstitutional disarmament laws on the books of a local, state, or federal government. That was implicit in LaPierre's message March 6 during a joint meeting in Denver with victim disarmament advocates Jim Brady, Wellington Webb, Mark Udall, and Tom Mauser.

LaPierre, Executive Vice President of the National Rifle Association, joined the meeting to promote what proponents are calling "Project Exile." Rocky Mountain Gun Owners said a better name for the policy is "Project Gulag," as its effect will be to send honest gun owners to prison for technical violations of unconstitutional firearms laws. The policy has also been called "Project Gestapo" for its ominous parallels to tactics employed by Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.

Ironically, the NRA opposed many of the laws LaPierre now wants to see fully enforced.

Not only did LaPierre attend the Denver meeting with anti-gun zealots, but he threw his support (and NRA funds) behind a government propaganda program that encourages citizens to turn in their neighbors for technical firearms violations. Mark Call of the Tyranny Response Team attended the meeting and asked LaPierre if he'd correctly heard the phone number to be publicized for turning in one's neighbors: "Is it 1-800-GESTAPO?"

About 500 civil gun rights advocates gathered later in the day to protest Mauser's group Sane Alternatives to the Firearms Epidemic, the name of which likens gun ownership to a disease, which held a fundraising event that evening to place victim disarmament proposals on the November ballot. Many of the protesters also expressed disgust with LaPierre's actions taken earlier in the day at the same location. Some publicly tore up their NRA membership cards in protest.

Bob Glass, a founder of the Tyranny Response Team, said the problem with "Project Gestapo" is that it doesn't differentiate between violent criminals and those who merely violate technical firearms laws which aren't even constitutional. LaPierre's Project will affect those who bear arms to protect against violent criminals, not just the criminals themselves. Glass and others said "Project Gestapo" is bound to have a chilling effect on the use of guns for self-defense.

Most people don't even know what an "illegal gun" is by the myriad of conflicting definitions in force today. Some fear the police, acting on tips from ignorant informants, will eventually seek more no-knock raid warrants to break down the doors of gun owners.

The NRA's Neal Knox is seeking to oust LaPierre and restore the organization to its role in protecting honest gun owners. Knox sent out a letter complaining about many of LaPierre's comments and policies (available at http://www.co-freedom.com/2000/02/nraleaders.html.)

Of course, "Project Gestapo" won't be enforced consistently. For instance, as Kevin Flynn wrote March 5 for The Rocky Mountain News, Dave Conner, who now works for the U.S. attorney's office, once carried an illegal handgun to work. Conner may have broken at least three laws, according to Flynn: "It is illegal in Denver to carry a loaded weapon. Colorado law prohibits carrying a concealed weapon without a permit. And federal law forbids most people from bringing guns into federal buildings."

But did U.S. Attorney Tom Strickland call on Conner to serve time in federal prison? Of course not. Instead, Strickland will work with Conner to "Exile" non-violent citizen gun owners to prison. Strickland had highest praise for his law-breaking fellow prosecutor: "Dave Conner has one of the finest reputations of any prosecutor who's ever served in Colorado. He admitted a mistake, it was fully investigated and he was reprimanded. We're honored that he would consider returning to the U.S. attorney's office."

When politicians, bureaucrats, legal enforcers and other members of the political elite break the law, it's a "mistake" for which they get "reprimanded." What happens when normal people break these same laws? Lee White, Chairman of Colorado Project Exile," said, "No citizen will miss this message: An illegal gun will result in a prison sentence" (March 7 News, 5A, emphasis added

Link: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1306

NovaCop10 said:

SNIP...The biggest issue I have with this "illegal gun" hunt is that unreliable "tips" that may pour into the hot line. Can't tell you how many ex wives/husbands call police with false info to get back at them. I can see a lot of wasted man hours searching with no results. Why not just make a blanketed "crime stoppers" tip line, and anyone can call about any crime. Then determine what you believe to be credible and important enough to follow up on? Given the budgets of most departments right now, I am amazed they are wasting it on such a program.

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QFT (Quoted For Truth)

My, oh, my, oh, my, oh, my. What a statist, LEO229 comment.

The biggest issue (his words) our Hero in Blue has is the time wasted by the [strike]security forces[/strike] police.

Hmmmm. No concern for the innocent people bugged, annoyed, and suffering indignity. He said, "...a lot of wasted man hours searching..." Well, if the police are searching, then someone or their property is getting searched.

We also seem to have a confession that police are willing to search without probable cause based on unreliable tips. One has to wonder what he knows about policing that would lead him to say something like the material quoted above.

At the rate he is going, the forum doesn't need a rule against cop bashing. He is doing more damage to his department's image than any cop basher possibly could.

Well, lets wait and see how Commissar229 squirms out of this one. I predict foggy weather with frequent patches of evasion and straw-man arguments.

Citizen,

I too found the NOVACop comment to be a little odd.

To All,

No responce from Jim Crow, Gun Grabbing Chief Wright. Shame on him.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar