More FALSE propoganda from the NRA

Captain Nemo said:

Then why don't they say "right to conceal carry" instead of implying all manners of carry?

Click to expand...

As I did mention in another post in this thread, at another webpage, they do. Why they choose to label it as they do at the page referenced in the OP of this thread is a good question that you could ask them.

wrightme said:

As I did mention in another post in this thread, at another webpage, they do. Why they choose to label it as they do at the page referenced in the OP of this thread is a good question that you could ask them.

Click to expand...

And I have indeed asked them. Just like I asked them WHY they want to endorse Reid. I haven't seen a reply to either yet, I'll let you know...

bnhcomputing said:

And I have indeed asked them. Just like I asked them WHY they want to endorse Reid. I haven't seen a reply to either yet, I'll let you know...

Click to expand...

Their website clearly defined the topic. Some will agree, others will not. Besides, we already saw that you had contacted them. My response about "ask them" was to Nemo.

Wrightme:

I have asked them. No response. My closing comment to this thread. "Say what you mean. Mean what you say".

NRA will be at the WI State Fair

NRA-ILA Staff and Volunteers will be at the Wisconsin State Fair
Beginning August 5 and running through the course of the fair on August 15, your NRA-ILA staff and volunteers will be manning booth #1306 in the Expo Center building. Staff will be providing free NRA-ILA materials, offering memberships, answering questions and signing up volunteers to assist with the upcoming elections. We will also have information available on current federal issues and election activity as well as state issues and legislative session summaries.
The Wisconsin State Fair is a great opportunity for NRA to recruit new volunteers to aid our electoral and legislative efforts during this pivotal time for Wisconsin and the country. With the September 14 Primary almost a month away and the November 2 election following quickly behind, now is the time to get active and support pro-Second Amendment candidates. We are on the verge of a tremendous opportunity to elect the pro-gun legislators needed to help restore Wisconsin’s rich firearm and hunting heritage.
Our Wisconsin NRA Campaign Field Representative, Nate Nelson, will be on hand along with Election Volunteer Coordinators from throughout the state each day to answer questions and provide information about Second Amendment issues. For several days, your Wisconsin State Liaison, Jordan Austin, will also be on hand to discuss our legislative successes, as well as the challenges gun owners currently face in the state. NRA-ILA Wisconsin Grassroots Coordinator, Brent Gardner, will also be available to provide information about upcoming Grassroots workshops and electoral efforts that are occurring in Wisconsin.
Please bring your friends, family and fellow firearm enthusiasts by the booth to learn more about our efforts. If you are unable to attend the fair but would like to learn how you can help with NRA-ILA’s election efforts this November, please contact Wisconsin NRA-ILA Campaign Field Representative, Nate Nelson, at (920) 410-4004 or by e-mail at nranate@gmail.com.


NRAILA.org

Phoenix David said:

A co-worker once told me "Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity or ignorance until proven otherwise"

Click to expand...

A couple of thoughts.

First, its impossible to know what the motivation of the NRA is in making the statement that Wisconsin has no right to carry. As has been mentioned in this thread, many equate "carry" with conceal carry. If the NRA knows the general population uses that "working" definition of carry, that may explain why they choose to use the same general definition. Again, I don't know.

It is possible that they think that using that sentiment, it will motivate people to get involved, join the NRA, be active... Maybe they think it keeps the pressure on the Wisconsin Legislature to claim that there is no right to carry in Wisconsin. Perhaps if they included Wisconsin as a right to carry state they fear that just as "we" are up in arms because we think its misleading to say we DON'T have right to carry here, just as many (or more) would be up in arms if the NRA called Wisconsin a "right to carry state" when people can't CC here.

Ideally every statement made would be followed up with a definition/explanation of every word in that statement. That kind of in-depth response would of course exceed the attention span and comprehension of much of the general public.

I'm actually a bit surprised that if people want to nit-pick statements by the NRA, why not nit-pick the use of the term "right to carry" because many consider a permit system a privilege and thus the bigger issue to the NRA claiming that Wisconsin doesn't have right to carry is to claim that any state except vermont, alaska and arizone DO have "right" to carry. In the eyes of many, only 3 states have "right to carry" the rest all have "privilege to carry".

Whatever the motivation of the NRA is, whatever the definition of a "right" vs a privilege is, I think the best thing for us all to do is to continue to each exercise our right to carry, educate others on their rights, and empower them to exercise them as well.

I'm continually amazed whenever a local radio talk show has a segment on anything gun related in Wisconsin the amount of misinformation and inaccurate beliefs people have regarding gun laws. The number of pro-gun callers who believe guns need to be registered. The number of pro-gun callers who believe you need a permit to carry in Wisconsin. Heck, even people who think the police have a right to stop you/search you "on a hunch" We still have a LOT of education to do. Our country as a whole has become complacent with regard to ALL rights AND the definition of what FREEDOM REALLY IS. So much so that many no longer know what a "right" really is, no longer know that governments are instituted among men derive their powers from the people BY THE CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE.

Protection and expansion of freedom is what is most important.

I do think in the interest of education and to help people get a true understanding of their rights we shouldn't get angry over the semantics of definitions of "carry" and "rights" but we should educate and encourage others to understand and exercise their rights.

I personally will be stopping by the NRA booth at the Wisconsin State Fair with my WCI T-shirt and empty holster to suggest that in addition to the great information on carry they have on their website, they begin to include information on open-carry as well.

They may think Wisconsin doesn't have right to carry, I may think it does, but we should ALL be able to agree Wisconsin needs to expand the practical ability to exercise the human right to self-defense made possible by the carry of a sidearm that too many Wisconsin laws infringe upon at the moment.

Most of what Nik says I agree with. I absolutely agree that no one can second guess what strategy the NRA uses to sell it's agenda. The NRA is looked upon by the anti's, politicians, law enforcement, and media as the spokeman for gun rights in America. Slight attention is given to the many other pro-gun interests. There is no question that because of that recognition the NRA possesses a large political influencing membership and undisputed power. Unfortunately, for the most part that membership reveres the NRA as if it were a Greek god. Therein lies part of the problem as I see it. Most members don't question the words of the NRA. If the NRA says Wisconsinites do not have the right to carry firearms. Most consider those words gospel. If WCI says Wisconsinites have the constitutional right to open carry firearms for personal defense and the NRA says Wisconsinites don't have the right to carry I WCI's words will be ignored by most people reading/hearing those statements. The underlying effect is that our open carry movement does not capture as much interest and participation as it needs to maintain the momentum we have going in Wisconsin. What the NRA says is generally presumed to be true, especially with it's members. An organization with the power and influence of the NRA must be aware of that power and influence and be truthful in it's public information, not spin and wordsmith information to promote an organizational agenda. I only ask that it promote the truth and the facts.

Captain Nemo said:

Most of what Nik says I agree with. I absolutely agree that no one can second guess what strategy the NRA uses to sell it's agenda. The NRA is looked upon by the anti's, politicians, law enforcement, and media as the spokeman for gun rights in America. Slight attention is given to the many other pro-gun interests. There is no question that because of that recognition the NRA possesses a large political influencing membership and undisputed power. Unfortunately, for the most part that membership reveres the NRA as if it were a Greek god.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ. Hyperbole is hyperbole.

CN said:

Therein lies part of the problem as I see it. Most members don't question the words of the NRA.

Click to expand...

And I differ again. It may be accurate to state that those who you know who also quesiton the words of the NRA have chosen to no longer be members of the NRA. I for one question them when appropriate. I do not accept their word as gospel, and do not encourage others to do such either. I DO encourage everyone to review what they state only while ignoring the "gut reaction" that many seem to have from first read.

CN said:

If the NRA says Wisconsinites do not have the right to carry firearms. Most consider those words gospel. If WCI says Wisconsinites have the constitutional right to open carry firearms for personal defense and the NRA says Wisconsinites don't have the right to carry I WCI's words will be ignored by most people reading/hearing those statements.

Click to expand...

I highly doubt that. The NRA does not state that Wisconsinites do not have the right to carry firearms. They DO seem to present misleading and contradictory information at two different webpages on their site.

CN said:

The underlying effect is that our open carry movement does not capture as much interest and participation as it needs to maintain the momentum we have going in Wisconsin.

?? What gives you that idea?

CN said:

What the NRA says is generally presumed to be true, especially with it's members. An organization with the power and influence of the NRA must be aware of that power and influence and be truthful in it's public information, not spin and wordsmith information to promote an organizational agenda. I only ask that it promote the truth and the facts.

Click to expand...

In this case, as I have pointed out, the accurate information for WI is on the NRA website. Clarification of their "RTC" webpage is in order.

Have you encountered a single individual who believes that WI residents cannot OC based upon information presented by the NRA?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

One other thing to add. I know talking to many gun owners that MANY gun owners FEAR open-carry. It is surely an unfounded fear as we all know, but they do fear it.

They fear that open-carry is "too much" for the general public to stomach and they are so preoccupied with getting "privilege to conceal carry"/permit to conceal carry that they don't want to upset the applecart with public open-carry.

Of course we've all on here hashed out the long term benefit of getting gun-carry by the law-abiding "out of the closet" and that is what will really change the perception of the general public, but in Wisconsin, gun owners have been starved of their rights for so long, so many who want CC fear OC not because they don't support it in principle, but in practice, they think it will be bad PR for Wisconsin getting CC.

Those are the people we need to reach. Get them out open-carrying ONCE and they will see no one panics, no disturbance, and that OC is a non-event in terms of any concern to other people yet it provides the right to carry and self-defense we all value. At the same time we need to advocate that open-carry AND conceal carry are both rights that law-abiding citizens are entitled to choose for themselves. We who open-carry now advocate for the right and the choice to be able to conceal carry as well.

comp45acp said:

NRA-ILA Staff and Volunteers will be at the Wisconsin State Fair
Beginning August 5 and running through the course of the fair on August 15....

Click to expand...

Interesting. Has Wisconsin Carry looked at having a booth at SF? I wonder what they cost. I wonder if we could find enough volunteers to man the booth. Seems like a good way to spread the word. Just a thought for next year.

Canard said:

Interesting. Has Wisconsin Carry looked at having a booth at SF? I wonder what they cost. I wonder if we could find enough volunteers to man the booth. Seems like a good way to spread the word. Just a thought for next year.

Click to expand...

I did look into it.

State Fair charges by the foot for your exhibit. If we had a table/booth inside the Wisconsin Expo Center (main) exhibit hall it would be $105 per front foot $525 per corner. So a 10 foot booth in the middle of a row, not on a corner would cost $1,050 for the run of the fair.

State fair also requires $1,000,000 liability policy of all vendors.

So it would be a sizeable cost to WCI. We could do it, but I'm not sure if its the best spend or not at this point and then there is a LOT of man-hours to cover manning the booth for 14 hours a day for 15 days.

To be honest, I don't know what kind of return on that investment we'd get from outlaying that kind of money and time. (not just memberships, but public awareness in general) We exhibit at dozens of gun shows throughout the year where we are usually given free space by the show promoter. A few shows we pay to exhibit at but the cost is minimal. $50 to in a rare situation a couple hundred at the most.

So we are always open to any opportunities to spread the word, a state fair booth isn't something we've pulled the trigger on. Gauging the level of response we get at a gun-show where its generally a much more targeted/receptive audience, those shows have for the most part been a good investment of time and money.

A SF booth where the audience would as a whole be much less targeted less receptive (as a whole) I just don't know if it would be the best use of resources. No doubt we'd get some exposure and expand awareness, I'm just not sure if a couple thousand dollar investment (booth and insurance) and 150+ man hours would be more effective allocated to something like the Journal-Sentinel Sports Show where it would be a more targeted more receptive audience. We are constantly evaluating options.

Wisconsin Carry said:

I did look into it.

State Fair charges by the foot for your exhibit. If we had a table/booth inside the Wisconsin Expo Center (main) exhibit hall it would be $105 per front foot $525 per corner. So a 10 foot booth in the middle of a row, not on a corner would cost $1,050 for the run of the fair.

State fair also requires $1,000,000 liability policy of all vendors.

So it would be a sizeable cost to WCI. We could do it, but I'm not sure if its the best spend or not at this point and then there is a LOT of man-hours to cover manning the booth for 14 hours a day for 15 days.

To be honest, I don't know what kind of return on that investment we'd get from outlaying that kind of money and time. (not just memberships, but public awareness in general) We exhibit at dozens of gun shows throughout the year where we are usually given free space by the show promoter. A few shows we pay to exhibit at but the cost is minimal. $50 to in a rare situation a couple hundred at the most.

So we are always open to any opportunities to spread the word, a state fair booth isn't something we've pulled the trigger on. Gauging the level of response we get at a gun-show where its generally a much more targeted/receptive audience, those shows have for the most part been a good investment of time and money.

A SF booth where the audience would as a whole be much less targeted less receptive (as a whole) I just don't know if it would be the best use of resources. No doubt we'd get some exposure and expand awareness, I'm just not sure if a couple thousand dollar investment (booth and insurance) and 150+ man hours would be more effective allocated to something like the Journal-Sentinel Sports Show where it would be a more targeted more receptive audience. We are constantly evaluating options.

Click to expand...

Also, as I asked in another thread, we can't OC at State Fair.

If we are voting, I say no to a booth at the fair. Can people wearing WCI shirts hand out pamphlets? Not saying officially, just as private citizens.

Wisconsin Carry said:

I did look into it.

State Fair charges by the foot for your exhibit. If we had a table/booth inside the Wisconsin Expo Center (main) exhibit hall it would be $105 per front foot $525 per corner. So a 10 foot booth in the middle of a row, not on a corner would cost $1,050 for the run of the fair.

State fair also requires $1,000,000 liability policy of all vendors.

So it would be a sizeable cost to WCI. We could do it, but I'm not sure if its the best spend or not at this point and then there is a LOT of man-hours to cover manning the booth for 14 hours a day for 15 days.

To be honest, I don't know what kind of return on that investment we'd get from outlaying that kind of money and time. (not just memberships, but public awareness in general) We exhibit at dozens of gun shows throughout the year where we are usually given free space by the show promoter. A few shows we pay to exhibit at but the cost is minimal. $50 to in a rare situation a couple hundred at the most.

So we are always open to any opportunities to spread the word, a state fair booth isn't something we've pulled the trigger on. Gauging the level of response we get at a gun-show where its generally a much more targeted/receptive audience, those shows have for the most part been a good investment of time and money.

A SF booth where the audience would as a whole be much less targeted less receptive (as a whole) I just don't know if it would be the best use of resources. No doubt we'd get some exposure and expand awareness, I'm just not sure if a couple thousand dollar investment (booth and insurance) and 150+ man hours would be more effective allocated to something like the Journal-Sentinel Sports Show where it would be a more targeted more receptive audience. We are constantly evaluating options.

Click to expand...

I agree here, I don't think there would be a big enough return on the investment

Agreed, Definitely a large cost and extremely large devotion of time. Probably not worth the cost and effort.

bnhcomputing said:

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=18



This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. We all know this as most if not all of us carry. As long as the NRA persists in spreading this FALSE garbage, I will continue to call them out on it.

Click to expand...

Not false but misleading. I believe they are talking about concealed carry only. OC is off the radar for most pro-gun groups. GOA are on board with OC, the NRA not so much.

Once again it should be stated: Thank God we have WisconsinCarry. for many reasons.

I used to be for c.c with a permit system ,haven't since i found o.c.d.o that being said I have never considered hunting as a right so it was a privledge to carry my rifle while hunting.

It was when the first time i o.c in public not during a hunting season, what a right a free man really has.

springfield 1911 said:

I have never considered hunting as a right so it was a privledge to carry my rifle while hunting.

Click to expand...

If you can do something without infringing on someone else, it is your human right to do so. If the government denies you that right, its STILL a right, its just a right infringed.

We don't have rights because we are americans, we have rights because we are human beings.

Thats the true beauty of freedom. EVERYTHING that doesn't infringe on someone else is our right. Driving, flying, running, walking, owning property, hunting, fishing, mushroom foraging, working hard, being lazy, traveling around the world or across town. ALL HUMAN RIGHTS right up to the point where you infringe on someone else's rights.

"Don't tread on me" "I won't tread on you" That's the essence of freedom.

Constitutional rights are a subset of human rights. Constitutional rights are a few human rights that a government chose to give special recognition to but they are not all the rights you have as a human. Rights transcend governments.

People in North Korea have the same human rights we do, theirs are just being denied by their government.

Wisconsin Carry said:

If you can do something without infringing on someone else, it is your human right to do so. If the government denies you that right, its STILL a right, its just a right infringed.

We don't have rights because we are americans, we have rights because we are human beings.

Thats the true beauty of freedom. EVERYTHING that doesn't infringe on someone else is our right. Driving, flying, running, walking, owning property, hunting, fishing, mushroom foraging, working hard, being lazy, traveling around the world or across town. ALL HUMAN RIGHTS right up to the point where you infringe on someone else's rights.

"Don't tread on me" "I won't tread on you" That's the essence of freedom.

Constitutional rights are a subset of human rights. Constitutional rights are a few human rights that a government chose to give special recognition to but they are not all the rights you have as a human. Rights transcend governments.

People in North Korea have the same human rights we do, theirs are just being denied by their government.

Click to expand...

+1 for all of the above.

I normally roll my eyes at "me too!" posts, but I think you've perfectly framed the freedom argument. Freedom for some is freedom for none. Freedom for all, or nothing.